* Trying to import Census Reference info for use in FTAnalyzer

[David Potter]

Hi All
I'm hoping there will be some users here using FTAnalyzer and more specifically its Lost Cousins feature.

I'm exporting my FH data as a GEDCOM using the File > Import/Export > Export option.
I load the GEDCOM into FTA and it states all the Census Reference info loaded is invalid. So I cannot load the FTA view of my FH data file into the Lost Cousins Website.

FTA states it will look for the Census Reference info in basically any field associated with the Census fact. The fact itself, the Source, Individual Notes, etc.

I cannot seem to find a FH field preferably within the Census Source record whereby I can input the Census Reference details

From the FTA Lost Cousins Help File:
Notes:
Example Census Reference Formats
FTAnalyzer attempts to recognise a wide variety of census references from short reference codes to long
descriptive full citation references. Please report formats that aren’t being recognised so they can be added to
the list.
England and Wales 1881 Census:
Class: RG11; Piece: 2953; Folio: 63; Page: 8; GSU roll: 1341707

I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue and can offer some guidance please.

Attached:
20.PNG Example of FTA Census Error List showing the Census Reference field circled RED
21 and 22.PNG My attempts to include the Census info into the FH Source fields and Notes

[NickWalker]

Hi All
I'm hoping there will be some users here using FTAnalyzer and more specifically its Lost Cousins feature.

I'm exporting my FH data as a GEDCOM using the File > Import/Export > Export option.
I load the GEDCOM into FTA and it states all the Census Reference info loaded is invalid. So I cannot load the FTA view of my FH data file into the Lost Cousins Website.

FTA states it will look for the Census Reference info in basically any field associated with the Census fact. The fact itself, the Source, Individual Notes, etc.

I cannot seem to find a FH field preferably within the Census Source record whereby I can input the Census Reference details

From the FTA Lost Cousins Help File:
Notes:
Example Census Reference Formats
FTAnalyzer attempts to recognise a wide variety of census references from short reference codes to long
descriptive full citation references. Please report formats that aren’t being recognised so they can be added to
the list.
England and Wales 1881 Census:
Class: RG11; Piece: 2953; Folio: 63; Page: 8; GSU roll: 1341707

I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue and can offer some guidance please.

Attached:
20.PNG Example of FTA Census Error List showing the Census Reference field circled RED
21 and 22.PNG My attempts to include the Census info into the FH Source fields and Notes

Hi David

I know you use templated sources, but for those who don't use it, the default location for AS to record a reference would be the 'Publication Info' field of the source.

[tatewise]

Using the built-in File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File... command tends to retain many FH custom tags that can upset other products like FTAnalyzer, especially with all the new features of FH V7.

So suggest you use the Export Gedcom File plugin with the (FTA) Family Tree Analyzer destination.

However, since you are using FH Templated Sources, which use non-standard GEDCOM tags, it is possible that FTAnalyzer won't be able to detect the Census Reference values. You may have to experiment with plugin settings.

BTW: It is often misunderstood how to specify the Lost Cousins tag in FH.
FTAnalyzer currently expects a GEDCOM fact of the format...

1 EVEN
2 TYPE Lost Cousins
2 DATE yyyy

That can very easily be added into FH by using the Tools > Fact Types... command to create a New Individual Event with the Fact Name Lost Cousins.

See past postings: Lost Cousins again (10924) and FT Analyzer (5484).

[Ruth]

This is just a suggestion. Try removing the word Class, and remove the GSU roll number. I also use templated sources for the census. So in your example, the reference would be RG 11; Piece 5304; Folio 94; Page 18. FTA accepts this for me.

[David Potter]

@Nick, thank you for your contribution Nick.
@Mike, Could you please elaborate a little on this Custom Fact Type. When would you create this fact type? Before exporting the Gedcom or after discovering a Lost Cousin or link it to the Ancestor involved? Sorry I'm a bit lost with this concept.
@Ruth, I tried your suggestion Ruth but I got the same error. Can you please advise where in FH you store the Census Reference?

Thanks All

[tatewise]

On the Lost Cousins tab, the report lists as new entries any Census data for which there is no matching Lost Cousins fact as shown below. So add the Lost Cousins fact with a Census year after those Census details have been uploaded to Lost Cousins. Then you can tell whether any new Census data needs to be uploaded.

image.png (126.09 KiB) Viewed 1961 times

[David Potter]

Ah I see. Thank you very much Mike.

[Ruth]

Screenshot 2024-01-10 at 10.42.33 pm.png (121.56 KiB) Viewed 1921 times

.
This is the template I use

[David Potter]

Hi Ruth, Thank You. How strange. You are using the same Source Template and field I'm using. You say your Census records import as valid records into FTA. But just to be sure we are on the same page, how does this Census and the people related to it look in UK 1881 report in the Lost Cousins Tab? Are there any errors reported in the Census Reference column. Could you please provide a screenshot.
Thank you.

[NickWalker]

If Ruth uses AS to add census entries and has either or both of these settings ticked (under Census Method 1 options), then AS will have added the reference ID entry in to the publication Information field for the source and/or the 'where in source' within each citation. These are standard GEDCOM fields but FH doesn't show these if the source is templated even though the data is there in the background. Perhaps AS shouldn't do that but it does currently. So if that data is there the FTA may be using those.

image.png (3.58 KiB) Viewed 1832 times

[David Potter]

Hi Nick, Thanks for pursuing this issue. I understand what you are saying here and made a test by creating a generic 1881 census source and assigned the source to the test person shown in the attached images using a Census Fact with appropriate date. I entered the census reference info into both fields you mention. The record is still rejected by FTA > Lost Cousins. FTA Admin are looking into the issue as well. I'll report back when I hear from them.

Thanks again.

[Ruth]

David, one thing I did notice is that if you have p. xx instead of page xx, then error message states page number is missing. I had to change my p. 44 to page 44. I have used AS in the past.

Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 8.57.41 am.png (55.7 KiB) Viewed 1759 times

[David Potter]

Thank you Ruth, this helped immensely.
I have managed to get this working now but I have an issue that Nick Walker touched upon. Basically it depends where I record the Census Reference in FH, as in what type of Source I use. I'll ask Nick how I might solve this.

Thank for your time.

[David Potter]

If Ruth uses AS to add census entries and has either or both of these settings ticked (under Census Method 1 options), then AS will have added the reference ID entry in to the publication Information field for the source and/or the 'where in source' within each citation. These are standard GEDCOM fields but FH doesn't show these if the source is templated even though the data is there in the background. Perhaps AS shouldn't do that but it does currently. So if that data is there the FTA may be using those.
image.png

Hi Nick, those two settings you mention are the link to my problem. Without those settings being ON in AS. FTA does not find the Census Reference from reading the GEDCOM. This is despite the Census Reference being included in the GEDCOM but with the wrong tag it would seem.
Can you think of a work around to copy what I have in the Templated Source > Reference field into the two fields Publication Info and Where Within? In my AS settings I had both these options turned OFF. I have now turned them on and FTA now finds the Census Reference when it reads the GEDCOM.

Thanks...

[NickWalker]

It would be interesting to know whether the Publication Information setting is enough because that would be the easiest thing to duplicate? I can't imagine it needs both.

[tatewise]

David, have you experimented with Export Gedcom File plugin settings for Templated Source on the Extra Options tab?

I think FTA says it will see the reference in Notes, so the Convert to Notes option might work.

Otherwise, I think retrospectively setting the Generic GEDCOM fields will need a custom plugin.

[David Potter]

@Nick - Thanks Nick I'm homing in on as say it should only need Publication Info
@Mike - I'll try that Mike, FTA should be able to find Census Reference from a Note

Let me test a little more and then get back to you both. FTA under the covers is a little flaky, but to be fair I am using the latest Beta version.

Thanks Both

[David Potter]

Okay - I tried the Export Gedcom Plugin, ensuring the Extra Options Templated Source_1 is set to Convert to Notes and it was already set so. I then checked the Gedcom and the Census Reference I used is present in numerous Note fields. So it would seem FTA is not that good at finding that info within Notes.

I'll now double check that only Publication Info is required to get this to work.

Back soon.

[David Potter]

I can confirm only the Publication Info is required to hold the Census Reference to get the FTA > Lost Cousins to work correctly.

Any thoughts on how to get the Publication Information field populated with the FH Templated Source Reference data? Thereby saving me having to delete from FH each Census concerned and rerun AS with the populate Publication Information set ON.

Thanks Both

[tatewise]

As I said, the only way to achieve that retrospectively is with a custom plugin, so let me have a look.

[David Potter]

Thanks Mike not in my skill set sorry. Can it be set to run by selecting a particular Census Year, EG, 1881

This is because I need to do a clean-up and verification of what I have in the FH Templated Source > Reference field.

Thank you both.

[tatewise]

Yes, it can ask for the census Year.

What cleanup is required as the plugin could do some common adjustments if you tell me what they are.
e.g.
I'm guessing, remove Class: from the beginning and ensure Page: is used instead of p.

Post exactly what Census Reference format is required and the plugin could enforce that format in both the Reference metafield and the Publication Info field.

[David Potter]

Hi Mike, thanks for the very kind offer of making it sophisticated and easing my pain. Problem is I used ORA when creating these References so they contain Registration Districts, Sub Districts a multitude of numbers, blah blah. So I don't think we can find and true consistency to apply some conversion rules.

But thank you for the offer...

[David Potter]

Here's an example but they are not consistent.

RG11, Bredon, Tewkesbury, 4, 2580, 58, 28

[tatewise]

Understood. I assumed they would be along the lines of your very first Source record screenshot but clearly not.

So are you going to 'standardise' all the Reference field values before running the plugin so the values copied to the Publication Info field will all be FTAnalyzer compatible?

I have a prototype plugin for you to try but it would be pointless until the Reference fields are all OK.

If there are any patterns in the Reference field values then the plugin could handle them.
Even something as crude as the class must be RGnn and any subsequent numbers must be Piece, Folio, Page & Roll can be parsed by the plugin and reformatted. Any intervening text can be disregarded.
What consistent format are you hoping to apply in the end?

Let me know what your plan of action is moving forward.