* Addresses

[Johnwrosser]

On Scottish birth and death certificates, the address where the person was born or died initially is recorded on the 1st page and then recorded again on the 2nd page for their residence, as well as the mother and father in the case of a birth and in the majority of cases the address is the same.
Is it possible to let AS prefill the 2nd page of addresses but allow them to be amended if necessary?

[NickWalker]

I've not got any Scottish ancestors that I'm aware of (and if I do they will be from before birth/death certificates appeared) so don't have any experience of these certificates, but the examples I've been sent in the past on which I based the autotext templates in AS, didn't have a page 2 I think. So presumably what you're looking at is a different format?

[Johnwrosser]

Hi Nick, I'm writing about the AS pages 1 & 2 not the certificates.

[neil40]

Hi Nick, I'm writing about the AS pages 1 & 2 not the certificates.

John, are you referring to these tabs?

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If so, the AS help file (from v4 I think?) states this:

Individual's/Father's/Mother's Residence (Residence Tab)



If a residence place and (optionally) address are specified for the individual, father or mother then these will be recorded as residence facts for each of them in the file when the record is saved. A residence fact will not be created if the place and address are left blank. If you want the residence details to be recorded because they are implied by the birth record but are not actually specifically mentioned, then enter the details but untick the box. If you use an autotext template to generate a transcript of the birth record then the unticked fields will not be included.



Note that when initially entering an individual or parents' residence, the place and address entered will be synchronised so that the same data will appear in all three. This is because for birth records it is likely that these places will be the same. If you subsequently edit a different place/address than the initial one then this synchronisation will end. From that point onwards you can control what goes into each of the boxes without any annoying incorrect synchronisation occuring.

[NickWalker]

I think John wants the residence fields for everyone to automatically be filled in with whatever is typed into the place of birth or place of death on the first tab.

I've made a note of this and will consider it as a possible future option.

Cheers

Nick

[Valkrider]

Nick

Whilst you are considering things to add could I suggest a couple?

With the 1939 Register add Unpaid Domestic Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?
With the 1921 England Census add Home Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?

This would speed up data entry if it is feasible.

[neil40]

Nick

Whilst you are considering things to add could I suggest a couple?

With the 1939 Register add Unpaid Domestic Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?
With the 1921 England Census add Home Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?

This would speed up data entry if it is feasible.

I suggest a separate topic Colin as it is irrelevant to John's question

[Valkrider]

I suggest a separate topic Colin as it is irrelevant to John's question

I put it here as Nick said he would consider it in the future in the original post and thought it more appropriate than starting a new thread as this may be something for Nick to consider.

[NickWalker]

Nick

Whilst you are considering things to add could I suggest a couple?

With the 1939 Register add Unpaid Domestic Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?
With the 1921 England Census add Home Duties to the Occupation automatic drop down?

This would speed up data entry if it is feasible.

Currently the occupation column drop-down is populated based on the occupations all ready recorded for this person. So this would need some changes to the way the occupation column is recorded in the census templates. Possibly I could allow the template to have a pre-populated list that then gets added to with their existing occupations when an individual is selected. I'll give it some thought.

Nick

[Johnwrosser]

Thank you Nick, i look forward to your next update.
Instead of 'home duties' on the 1921 Census and 1939 Register it would be better to have 'Housewife or even 'Unpaid Housewife' rather than Unpaid Domestic Duties, as when the report gets printed it seems better to say she was an Unpaid Housewife rather than she was an unpaid domestic duties?

[neil40]

Thank you Nick, i look forward to your next update.
Instead of 'home duties' on the 1921 Census and 1939 Register it would be better to have 'Housewife or even 'Unpaid Housewife' rather than Unpaid Domestic Duties, as when the report gets printed it seems better to say she was an Unpaid Housewife rather than she was an unpaid domestic duties?

John, I think the point is for accuracy, if you are transcribing the 1939 Register, most houswives were listed as 'Unpaid Domestic Duties', so Unpaid Housewife is an inaccurate transcription.

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That's not to say you can't transcribe it how you want though.

[tatewise]

Remember that what you enter in the Text from Source transcript as 'Unpaid Domestic Duties' does not have to be the same as you enter in the Occupation attribute as 'Housewife'. IMO housewives were never paid so 'Unpaid' is superfluous.

That is the same as Text from Source 'Ag Lab' and variants, may be the Occupation attribute 'Agricultural Labourer'.

[Johnwrosser]

Unpaid Domestic Duties doesn't do very well in the print report section.

[tatewise]

Unpaid Domestic Duties doesn't do very well in the print report section.

As I said yesterday, that is why the Occupation attribute should be set to 'Housewife', and only the transcript should say 'Unpaid Domestic Duties'.

[RS3100]

As I said yesterday, that is why the Occupation attribute should be set to 'Housewife', and only the transcript should say 'Unpaid Domestic Duties'.

I agree. I use the term Housewife for the occupation in the grid/fact to aid readability in reports, and edit the transcript in AS to accurately reflect what was entered on the census form. As this appears to come down to user choice, I personally wouldn't want the exact census phrases pre-populated in the occupation drop down field, unless they were somehow differentiated to make clear that they were separate to the pre-filled occupations that had previously been entered for the individual.

AS is after all an aid to data entry. It already cuts down the time and effort spent in entering data compared to entering it manually in FH, but It is very rare in my experience that the source transcript pre-populated by AS from the user data entered doesn't need some form of editing to accurately reflect the original document. For instance, places of birth in censuses are often entered in the form County, Town, and often abbreviated in various ways, so that also involves manual editing of the pre-populated place if the intention is to record an accurate transcript.

[tatewise]

Yes. That is exactly what the AS help says: "You may need to edit the source text to ensure an accurate transcription is made."

[NickWalker]

I agree. I use the term Housewife for the occupation in the grid/fact to aid readability in reports, and edit the transcript in AS to accurately reflect what was entered on the census form. As this appears to come down to user choice, I personally wouldn't want the exact census phrases pre-populated in the occupation drop down field, unless they were somehow differentiated to make clear that they were separate to the pre-filled occupations that had previously been entered for the individual.

AS is after all an aid to data entry. It already cuts down the time and effort spent in entering data compared to entering it manually in FH, but It is very rare in my experience that the source transcript pre-populated by AS from the user data entered doesn't need some form of editing to accurately reflect the original document. For instance, places of birth in censuses are often entered in the form County, Town, and often abbreviated in various ways, so that also involves manual editing of the pre-populated place if the intention is to record an accurate transcript.

Yes this is all absolutely my advice too and I also make this point in my 'Introduction' video. The example I mention is that I get a lot of Ag Labs in my family tree (I seem to come from peasant stock in every single branch back to the 1600s!) but I would always enter that as Agricultural Labourer as that is what is populated into the occupation fact that AS created. The census grid columns that have headers that are shaded darker get recorded into facts (as well as in the auto-text) whereas the others only get recorded into auto-text. So generally it makes sense to be careful what you enter into those columns. Once AS has generated the auto-text if you want an accurate transcription you can edit the source text to make that say e.g. 'Unpaid Domestic Duties'.

[jelv]

What do you do for a daughter who is shown as "Unpaid domestic duties"? She isn't a housewife.

[tatewise]

Maybe she is a 'housemaid'

[RS3100]

Or home help, helper at home, or suppress the occupation fact sentence and amend or add a suitable note to the census fact sentence, whilst maintaining an exact transcript of the document attached to the source record.

[jelv]

My question was a bit tongue in cheek. What I've done (and will continue to do) is enter it exactly as on the census. As a dated fact that is what was stated on that date. The only ones I do change are the abbreviations such as Ag. Lab. (a lot of my family are from Depwade area of Norfolk and from Lincolnshire so there are lot of them!).

[ColeValleyGirl]

I do the same as John -- enter it exactly as in the source. For Ag. Lab., I'd enter Ag[ricultural] Lab[ourer] to make it clear what was present in the source and what is my interpretation of what is present. After all, Ag. Lab. covers a multitude of occupations, so we may not know exactly what it is that they did.

[BillH]

I also do as John does. I always enter exactly what is in the source. I would even enter Ag Lab if that was what it said and then add a note if I felt I needed to explain what that meant.

Bill

[tatewise]

Some users like the Occupation to be analysed using consistent attribute values.
Users also like the Narrative sentence in reports to be reasonable.
So for them neither Ag[ricultural] Lab[ourer] nor Unpaid Domestic Duties suits both purposes.
Whereas standardised Agricultural Labourer and Housewife do work for both cases.
Nevertheless, the Source record transcript would faithfully use whatever was in the Census document.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Some users like the Occupation to be analysed using consistent attribute values.
Users also like the Narrative sentence in reports to be reasonable.

And some users don't use Narrative reports, or spend any time analysing data across individuals.

Those users will possibly be reassured that they don't have to standardise on possibly misleading data. (An Ag. Lab. could actually be a Tenant Farmer, or one of number of skilled jobs on the land; and I have examples of Unpaid Domestic Duties as the occupation for a daughter of a widowed father -- housewife doesn't work, home help would be anachronistic, housekeepers and housemaids were generally paid... plus, she might have been a nurse for her widowed father or caring for younger children rather than/as well as 'keeping house').

Those who do use Narrative reports/perform significant analysis will probably use the approach you describe.