* Date either Quarters or precise dates

[jsphillips]

Hi I have used for a long time on births marriages and deaths for example Q1 1940
I wish to change all of this say to Jan-March 1940 instead or bet Sept-Oct 1950
On RM & FTM I use this method
How do I do this so it takes all of my 1700 files and converts all of them ?
Are there any drawbacks ?
Thanks

[jsphillips]

Sorry I have found that I have asked this before and had many replies ....AGEISM

Is there any way I can set all ranges to accept Jan-March 1974 say instead of Q1 1974
Not either frm Jan 1974-March 1974 but just as above the same as I use in FTM

[tatewise]

No, you cannot in FH, not in that specific format.
In Tools > Preferences > General tab you can untick Use quarter date display format.
Then the underlying FH/GEDCOM Range Date standard format of between Jan 1974 and Mar 1974 is used.
In the database, that is the date format that is always used and saved in the GEDCOM file.
The Q1 1974 display is only a user interface option.

I experimented with the date format Jan 1974-Mar1974 in RootsMagic 8 and when exported in GEDCOM it produced the invalid GEDCOM DATE JAN 1974–MAR 1974 that I suspect many genealogy programs will not recognise.
When imported to FH that produced a Date Phrase "JAN 1974–MAR 1974" which is not recognised as a Date at all.
When imported as a Direct Import it produced the specific Date Jan 1974 without any range at all.

I don't have FTM, so cannot check its behaviour, but I suspect similar problems will result from such non-standard dates.

[Peter Collier]

As a sort-of aside here, I personally find using quarter dates serves me well as flag to see at a quick glance whether or not the date is for a GRO registration of the event itself. Particularly important given that the registration may be recorded in the quarter after the event . Conversely, if I enter the date as, for example, btw. Oct-Dec 1974 rather than Q4 1974, that says to me that the event itself was definitely somewhere in that period but I'm not sure when.

However, that's just my modus operandi. It suits me, but "your mileage may vary", as they say.

[davidf]

Are we almost saying we want another Date Format, that will "compact" a date such as "between Jan 1974 and Mar 1974" to "between Jan and Mar 1974" - the "rule" being that all bar the last instance of common elements can be removed?

"between Jan 1974 and Mar 1974" to "between Jan and Mar 1974"
"from 2 Jan 1974 to 8 Jan 1974" to "from 2 to 8 Jan 1974"
etc.?

That said I would want Qn yyyy for GRO indices as Peter says above - for much the same reasons. Even if I used reports I would want the Qn yyyy format rather than the more "natural" "between Jan and Mar 1974" - because that implies a level of precision that could be wrong. Explaining that "the convention is that Qn yyyy dates are dates of registration so the actual event probably happened a few days before, but sometimes it might be some weeks before", can be done once by edited footnote?

[jsphillips]

Just as an aside
Can it not be possible to write a query to produce the result or a plug in ?
Thanks

[tatewise]

This thread is discussing a new display format for Dates in Facts, Reports, Diagrams, etc, (akin to the Quarter Date option).
Queries and Plugins cannot affect any FH display fields.

[davidf]

Are we mixing two things:

1. The parsing of a remarkable range of possible input formats into the FH storage format.
2. How dates are formatted on display

Is there any way I can set all ranges to accept Jan-March 1974 say instead of Q1 1974
Not either frm Jan 1974-March 1974 but just as above the same as I use in FTM

In V6 (OMMV!) for both "point events" (e.g. baptisms) and "range facts" (e.g. residence)

• input "frm Jan 1974 - Mar 1974" and FH displays & stores "frm Jan 1974 to Mar 1974"
• Input "Jan 1974 - Mar 1974" (or "Jan 1974 to Mar 1974") and FH displays "Q1 1974" which presumably means "between 1 Jan 1974 and 31 Mar 1974" is stored.
  • The lack of a "frm", even in the presence of the "to", kicks FH into assuming
    1. a level of precision that may not be justified and
    2. swapping a time "period" to a time "range". A time range may be appropriate for a "point event" and you might argue that "Jan 1974 - Mar 1974" implies a range rather than a period, but is that what most users want or expect?

In respect of display formats, surely the "Qn YYYY" format is only really justifiable with events that are specifically reported by quarter - which means to me UK registration of Births Marriages and Deaths from the start of registration until they started to report by month? There may be others, but outside those cases would "Qn YYYY" look right - or should it be replaced by a compact "Jan- Mar YYYY"?

[jsphillips]

Yes I agree to all of these comments
BM&D's are by Quarter registration so Jan-March 1941 or Q1 1941
But you may be aware that say the birth was either in Feb or March (not Jan) so the response is surely
Feb-March 1941 ..why do we need to & from ?

[ColeValleyGirl]

why do we need to & from ?

Without 'from & to', how would we know it wasn't 'between & and'?

Which in this case, it should be, surely?

[tatewise]

Both the input formats and dispay formats should be considered.

As Helen says, there needs to be a distinction between:
1) Date Ranges of between X and Y or after X or before Y that define when an event happened.
They are held in GEDCOM format: BET X AND Y or AFT X or BEF Y
2) Date Periods of from X to Y or from X or to Y that define the period when an attribute existed.
They are held in GEDCOM format: FROM X TO Y or FROM X or TO Y

FH Quarter Dates input in the Qn yyyy form always become Date Ranges between mmm yyyy and mmm yyyy
There is no explicit Day involved in those Date Ranges.
Tools > Preferences > General tab, 'Use quarter date display format' allows such Date Ranges to be shown in the Qn yyyy form.
That General tab also adjusts the default display format for Standard and Short date formats.

FH recognises many input formats.
V7.0 treats Jan 2000 - Mar 2000 and Jan 2000 to Mar 2000 as a Date Period which is different from FH V6.2 so is not displayed in Quarter Date form.
Interestingly, that applies even when a fact is an Event despite it being nonsense (Birth or Death cannot happen over a period).

Enter Feb-Mar 2000 or Feb to Mar 2000 and it becomes the Date Range between Feb 2000 and Mar 2000 which is what jsphillips wants.

The latest part of this thread discusses the ability to display such dates in that abbreviated form by suppressing the duplicated year.

[jsphillips]

Thanks Again
Whichever way I choose could be used from now, but how to retrospectively apply to 1700 records?

[tatewise]

Sorry! What do you want to retrospectively apply? Please be very specific and give an example or two.

[jsphillips]

When choosing from the thread a date format how can I apply it to all my 1700 records
Thanks

[jsphillips]

If I choose a date format Does it retrospectively apply to all my 1700 records ?

[Gowermick]

Only one way to find out - give it a try, at worst it will only apply from this point onwards, but you never know, it may apply retrospectively, you’ve nothing to lose!
You may be worrying over nothing

[tatewise]

Yes, because it is only a display format. It will display all your data in your chosen format but no data is changed.
It is much the same as if you change the display colours in FH. The display changes but no data is changed.

As I said earlier, the internal format for a Range Date in your data always has been and always will be one of:
BET <date> AND <date> or AFT <date> or BEF <date>

If Tools > Preferences > General tab, Use quarter date display format is ticked then all appropriate Range Dates are displayed using the Qn yyyy format.
i.e. BET JAN 1900 AND MAR 1900 is displayed as Q1 1900 but no data is changed.

If Tools > Preferences > General tab, Use quarter date display format is NOT ticked then all Range Dates are displayed using the default FH date display format.
i.e. BET JAN 1900 AND MAR 1900 is displayed as btw Jan 1900 and Mar 1900 but no data is changed.

The Tools > Preferences> General tab has several other date display options: Use 'circa' for approximate dates and Preferred Standard Date Format and Preferred Short Date Format that you can alter.
They change the way dates are displayed but no data is changed.

As Mike Loney says, try changing any of those date display options and see what happens.

[jsphillips]

Thank you
Just getting too old to take everything in