* Plain Text Only setting

[Jean001]

This is probably of limited appeal, but here goes...

I am not using Rich Text but certain actions and keystrokes are triggering changes to the default text. I am spending a lot of time changing the font settings back to the default options. Easily done, but time-wasting.

For example, see the post 'text in notes': viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21219

I have notified CP of a number of scenarios (they are 'under investigation' by them) but there are others that I have not yet worked out the detail of what is causing the font changes.

Following Mark's comment in the original post: 'There is no "only use plain text" setting in FH7', I wrote in my communications with CP, 'I would like the option (e.g. via Preferences) to 'turn off' Rich Text'. The response to me was 'Have you proposed this on the FHUG Wish List? That is a good way of getting support for feature requests'.

So, I would like the option of using plain text only (i.e. 'to turn off' Rich Text.

[jimlad68]

Would certainly get my vote.

There have been a few posts on this in particular
How to turn off Rich Text (20363)

I too regularly have to undo "automatic rich text" especially after pasting. My work around is to Right Click and Paste Unformatted text. (I can't find a shortcut key though, if anyone knows it please let me know, otherwise I might set up an AHK key) But my usual method is to use Arsclip clipboard manager which can be set to default to plain text paste.

[LornaCraig]

If CP can’t find the cause of these problems then a ‘plain text only’ option would be desirable. However if these changes are beyond the user’s control presumably they could also be a problem for those who want to use Rich Text, so it would be much better if CP could get to the root of the problem.

Having said that, I am puzzled because I have never experienced the problem you are describing, and have not been able to make it happen.

I too use plain text for many (not all) notes, to maintain a consistency with the hundreds of notes created before V7. I use the default font as it was when installed and have never changed it. If I copy text within FH from one note to another the default font is preserved. If I am copying text from outside FH I always use the right-click option to Paste Unformatted Text, and it always appears in the default font.

I know that doesn't help you, sorry! But if CP are 'investigating' the problem that suggests they have acknowledged that there is a problem, which is a start. If they don't come up with a solution you will have extra leverage for your request for a 'plain text only' option.

[jimlad68]

For me it is easy to replicate, I have just done it. Copy from say a website (their text is usually formatted) and paste into say a note or Source text. If one then does the usual Ctrl+Alt + double click it then shows rich text ticked.

[NickWalker]

For me it is easy to replicate, I have just done it. Copy from say a website (their text is usually formatted) and paste into say a note or Source text. If one then does the usual Ctrl+Alt + double click it then shows rich text ticked.

That's because you are pasting formatted text if you are pasting from a website so it is working as expected. If you right click and choose 'paste unformatted text' then it will be plain text. I think the OP is suggesting this happens unexpectedly for them.

[Mark1834]

Yes - it's the same issue as I raised on FHUG 18 months ago and reported to CP (ticket 537234, 15 Jun 2021).

It was "referred to developers", with no further feedback, but hopefully they are now actively investigating the root cause.

Even if that issue was fixed, it would still be a useful option for those who want to use FH purely as a data repository so would get my vote.

[jimlad68]

That's because you are pasting formatted text if you are pasting from a website so it is working as expected. If you right click and choose 'paste unformatted text' then it will be plain text. I think the OP is suggesting this happens unexpectedly for them.

Yes, that was my quick "accidental" way of doing it, but still very annoying as undoing it takes so much more effort! But going back to the many posts soon after FHv7 was introduced there were definitely some unexpected rich text introductions, for instance 2000+ _FMT 1 lines in the Gedcom that I certainly did not add by accident (all I can think is possibly v6 to v7 conversion or a plugin?) and which I had to remove carefully via notepad++

The ticket(s) I raised at the time included these responses from Support:

"....... There is an option "convert notes to plain text" in the Export dialog.
It may be that someone will write a plugin to convert rich text notes to plain text. I'm not aware of one at this point though."

and

If you just want to convert all rich text to plain text in a copied project, I would recommend copying your entire project (you can do this within the Project Window), and then use Split Tree Helper on the File menu to convert the rich text to plain text in the copied project. Leave all options at their default do-nothing settings, but change the 'Notes' field (bottom-left) to "Convert all notes to plain text" and then click the "Perform Tasks" button.

For myself, FH is a brilliant program for my genealogy research with some annoying deficiencies which I have to live with.
In this instance as part of my database "tidy up" routine I run the Plugin Search and replace (not the FH Find and Replace) select All records... , tick all basic filters, Search ONLY and look for <. This will also include legitimate < such as age less than, or instances where one may wish to use rich text.

One gets the impression that Calico pie are purposely hindering Plain Text mode:
- I cannot find a shortcut key for Paste Unformatted text. Please let me know if anyone knows one
- the method for viewing the "RAW Rich Text" seems very unusual to me (ctrl+alt+double click) and I cannot find reference to it in the help "Keyboard and Mouse Shortcuts"
- and of course, no built in way to remove Rich Text Globally or more useful would be to search and replace selectively.

[johnmorrisoniom]

There is a quick and easy way, as has already been mentioned, when pasting the text, Right click and chose paste unformatted text.

[ColeValleyGirl]

I cannot find a shortcut key for Paste Unformatted text. Please let me know if anyone knows one

Screenshot 2022-12-11 160624.jpg (98.89 KiB) Viewed 1415 times

the method for viewing the "RAW Rich Text" seems very unusual to me (ctrl+alt+double click) and I cannot find reference to it in the help "Keyboard and Mouse Shortcuts"

Ah, yes! That shortcut is not mentioned in the FH Help page for Keyboard Shortcuts!

No it won't be, a novice user could end up in all sorts of confusion by trying to edit it directly.

It's a easter egg designed for plugin developers to be able to see how to structure rich text when composing it.

[Jean001]

To give some details of what I am experiencing...

Default: Tahoma 10pt

Yesterday, I changed the Auto-Create Note (Fact Definition : Advanced Features : Auto-Create Note) for one of my facts. I copied the A-C note to a FH Note record. I could see that the copied text was not set as my default font. On checking, it is Cambria Math.

These are some of the examples that I have encountered, and are those that I notified to CP.

1) Adding a character (ellipsis) from the Popup Accent Window (for me occurs in v7.0.11 and v7.0.18)
<font="Segoe UI Symbol",,1>…</font>

2) Adding a character (double wavy line, almost equal to) from the Popup Accent Window. (Double wavy line character: U+2248: Almost Equal To) (for me occurs in v7.0.11 and v7.0.18)
<font="Cambria Math",,1>≈</font>

3) Adding a character (double wavy line, almost equal to) via Open Character Map (opens up 'preset' to Tahoma) (for me occurs in v7.0.11 and v7.0.18)
<font="Cambria Math",,1><fs="+2">≈<font="MS Shell Dlg 2",,0><fs="-1.5">
</font></fs>

4) Moving text from FH to Notepad and back again (for me occured in v7.0.11, RESOLVED in v7.0.18)
Plain text in Text From Source box
Copied into Notepad (font there=Tahoma Regular 10pt)
Revisions made to the text, and 'copied over' the existing text in Text From Source
Straightaway it can be seen that the text is no longer Tahoma. On checking it has been set as
<font="Segoe UI",,0>
</font>

5) Deletion of Fact Auto-Create Note (for me occurred in v7.0.11)
Create Fact which has Fact Auto-Create Note (a great feature which I use extensively)
CtrlAlt click into the box: Rich Text box not clicked
'Open' Note Window, Font = 'Automatic' and font size '10 (default)
Ctrl A Delete the entire Fact Auto-Create Note (in basic Note, not with the Note Window open)
The Note is now blank but on clicking the cursor into the Note the cursor is not in the top left-hard corner of the box but on the position below
Ctrl Alt click shows
<font="Segoe UI",,0>
</font>
with Rich Text box clicked.

5, after upgrade to v7.0.18) Deletion of Fact Auto-Create Note
Create Fact which has Fact Auto-Create Note (a great feature which I use extensively)
CtrlAlt click into the box: Rich Text box not clicked
'Open' Note Window, Font = 'Automatic' and font size '10 (default)
Ctrl A Delete the entire Fact Auto-Create Note (in basic Note, not with the Note Window open)
The Note is now blank, Clicking the cursor into the Note has the cursor in the top-left corner of the box.
Ctrl Alt click shows the Rich Text box clicked. No font information is showing
Opening the Note Window has: Font Automatic, 10 (default)
Close that and type into the Note.
The font is visibly not at the default setting.
Ctrl Alt click shows
<font="Segoe UI",,0>TEST TEXT
</font>
with Rich Text box clicked.

6) Copy text from a Fact Note (not Rich Text) into Text From Source (for me in v7.0.18, not checked before)
CtrlAlt click into TFS Note: Rich Text box not ticked
CtrlA Delete, TFS Note is blank
CtrlAlt click into TFS Note, Rich Text box now ticked
type into the empty box: mmmmm
CtrlAlt click into TFS Note:
<font="Segoe UI",,0>mmmmm
</font>
This also happens if deleting Fact Auto-Create Note, as in 5, above.

[NickWalker]

- I cannot find a shortcut key for Paste Unformatted text. Please let me know if anyone knows one

More and more applications seem to support Shift+Ctrl+V for paste unformatted (as well as the usual Ctrl+V for pasting the formatted text). I can't find an equivalent shortcut key in FH and so it would be good if FH supported that keyboard combination too. I can't be too critical though because AS doesn't have a short-cut for this either. I'll add it to the list of things to do!

Nick

[jimlad68]

Thanks for those observations:

[1] re "I cannot find a shortcut key for Paste Unformatted text. Please let me know if anyone knows one"
Yes when I mentioned that earlier I knew of your R mouse click method, but I was hoping for a keyboard shortcut such as Ctrl+Shift+V as in some Browsers, so I will continue using Arsclip or if it will work, add something to AHK.

[2] re "method for viewing the "RAW Rich Text" I think Jane's comments emphasise my point that Calico pie are hindering "Plain Text mode" users.

[Mark1834]

The common factor is Segoe UI font. My understanding is that this is now the default Windows system font, so pound to a penny it is a contamination from one of the Microsoft predefined controls that CP use for the Rich Text Window that is imposing itself uninvited.

I can understand CP being a little reluctant to give the user the ability to switch off Rich Text, as it is one of their promotion points for FH7, but that rather imposes a requirement to fix this bug.

[ColeValleyGirl]

[2] re "method for viewing the "RAW Rich Text" I think Jane's comments emphasise my point that Calico pie are hindering "Plain Text mode" users.

I'm not sure I understand your logic. Why would a 'plain text mode' user need to view the Raw Rich text?

I do agree that it would be helpful to have the option to default to plain text.

[Mark1834]

A plugin to zap rich text throughout the project should be very simple, but IMO that's not the right approach. It's fixing something in FH that doesn't work correctly, not adding a missing feature, so needs to be remedied in the main program.

[jimlad68]

I'm not sure I understand your logic. Why would a 'plain text mode' user need to view the Raw Rich text?

[1] I have found it the quickest way to quickly check if rich text is there (e.g. if one is not sure of a recent paste).
[2] If using my method to locate Rich Text with Plugin Search and replace, it is probably the easiest way to go forward and remove it.
[3] The only way I have found to remove Rich Text is.
- In the Note/Text from source etc box
- ctrl+A > ctrl+C > delete (Copy all the note to clipboard and delete original)
- ctrl+alt+double click to edit the rich text
- untick the Rich Text box > OK to exit rich text box
- Paste unformatted text, which should remove all the rich text features
If anyone has a simpler workaround please let me know

[ColeValleyGirl]

I don't know of a quicker way.

I think it's important that Calico Pie provide the option to default to plain text, and to convert rich text to unformatted text, and then nobody will need to resort to such complexities.

[AdrianBruce]

At the very least, we should be able to configure the default paste to be either "Paste Unformatted Text" or "Paste" - where the latter is presumably "paste formatted". This is, after all, analogous to to Microsoft's options of "Keep Text only", "Merge Formatting" and "Keep Source Formatting". (And apologies to non-MS users if you needed a trigger warning before reading that bit.... )

I find that pasting in "tables" from sites is most inconsistent. For instance, of FreeBMD index entries and GRO index entries, I think one generally works and the other results in a mess. I very much doubt this is anything to do with CP's coding, and everything to do with the site's HTML and / or my browser. I'd be tempted to default to "Paste Unformatted Text" on the basis that usually gave the best results.

[Woodg]

I find that pasting in "tables" from sites is most inconsistent. For instance, of FreeBMD index entries and GRO index entries, I think one generally works and the other results in a mess. I very much doubt this is anything to do with CP's coding, and everything to do with the site's HTML and / or my browser. I'd be tempted to default to "Paste Unformatted Text" on the basis that usually gave the best results.

Slightly O/T.

I'm moving from Relatively Yours 3 to FH7 and needed to copy tables from RY3 and paste into FH7, but they pasted as a mess as some columns were combined with the paste. With experimentation I found coping from RY3 and pasting into Microsoft Word first, then coping from Word and pasting into FH7 produced a much better outcome for tables. Maybe coping website tables via Word may produce a better result too?

This doesn't really resolve the issue at hand, however.

Glenn

[jimlad68]

I find that pasting in "tables" from sites is most inconsistent. For instance, of FreeBMD index entries and GRO index entries, I think one generally works and the other results in a mess. I very much doubt this is anything to do with CP's coding, and everything to do with the site's HTML and / or my browser. I'd be tempted to default to "Paste Unformatted Text" on the basis that usually gave the best results.

This is a good point and one I have struggled with, not just FH, especially from websites with all sorts of nested tables/sections/images and *.pdf files.

By trial and error I have found that pasting into different programs, and sometimes repasting again, will give me the result I want. A text editor is the first simple option (or most programs allow Plain text Paste), then word and excel (which often give very different results). If you have access to a "screenshot reader" that also does OCR (e.g. ABBYY fine reader add-on) that may give a better result. Also windows built in "snipping tool/Snip & Sketch" then OCR the result. (some free ones here https://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-rev ... s-to-text/).

As the FH text editor is limited I usually prepare my text in Notepad++ or MS Word first where I can also use macros.

[tatewise]

... we should be able to configure the default paste to be either "Paste Unformatted Text" or "Paste" - where the latter is presumably "paste formatted". This is, after all, analogous to Microsoft's options of "Keep Text only", "Merge Formatting" and "Keep Source Formatting".

Right-click in a Note box offers a choice including Paste and Paste Unformatted Text similar to the way right-click in MS Office offers a choice of Paste Options as you stated.
So what do you mean by the default paste?
Perhaps you mean the Ctrl+V shortcut?
Perhaps the Paste button in the Rich Text editor window, but I think by then it is already formatted text?

In my MS Office products, the Ctrl+Shft+V shortcut does nothing at all, despite what others have said.
The Alt+H+V+T shortcut performs a Keep Text Only paste and Alt+H+V+K performs Keep Source Formatting.

What are the requirements for a Wish List entry? How about these ...
TITLE: Plain Unformatted Text Option
DESCRIPTION:
Disable Rich Text Formatting
Add an option to disable the Rich Text Formatting feature entirely, presumably in Tools > Preferences > Notes.
When selected, all existing Rich Text Formatting is automatically removed and converted to plain text.
(That raises the question of how tables and links are converted.)
The right-click option to Paste is removed leaving Paste Unformatted Text.
The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform an unformatted text paste.
The [...] button on the right of the Note and other long-text fields opens a plain text window as it did in FH V6.
Default to Paste Unformatted Text
Add an option to set Paste Unformatted Text as the default, presumably in Tools > Preferences > Notes.
The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform an unformatted text paste.
A new keyboard shortcut to perform a Rich Text Formatted Paste.
The [...] button on the right of the Note and other long-text fields opens a plain text window as it did in FH V6 if the content is plain text, otherwise opens the Rich Text editor window as in FH V7.

[davidf]

I can see where you are going but can I ask others what is their experience of the paste shortcuts. There seems to be some variation but I think we need to judge the general consensus and "go with the flow":

• Ctrl-V - seems always to "paste what is on the clipboard" and the "receiving program" tries to handle any incompatibilities in the "pasted data" (unrecognised characters etc.)
• Ctrl-Shft-V - in my experience is often used for "specialist pastes":
  • most often: unformatted text (e.g. Thunderbird email client, Firefox & Edge Browsers?)
  • where Ctrl-V is for inserting control characters (e.g. Command Line Editors)
  • "Paste Special" in Libre-Write/Calc (and MS-Word/Excel?) - which brings up a submenu - effectively "convert from what?" (I think at one stage MS products may have used this to "paste formats but not content"!)
• Ctrl-Shft-Alt-V is paste "unformatted text" in Libre-Write/Calc

Most sources seem to say something like:

Ctrl+V = paste (Cmd+V on Mac). Everyone knows that. But this keyboard shortcut also keeps the styling from a rich format document like a Google Doc or Word file or even Apple Notes.

Instead, use Ctrl+Shift+V (Cmd+Shift+V on Mac). Adding the Shift key into your paste shortcut strips all formatting from the original copied text. Use it! And send better emails next time.

In proposing:

Default to Paste Unformatted Text
...
The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform an unformatted text paste.
A new keyboard shortcut to perform a Rich Text Formatted Paste.
...

Is your proposal introducing a "wrong way round" method of working?

Do we just need to ensure that throughout (irrespective of preferences), FH follows reasonably general practice and has a Ctrl-Shift-V option for "unformatted text" - so that "muscle memory" from other programs works with FH?

What is others' experience of the Ctrl-V, Ctrl-Shft-V and Ctrl-Something Else-V shortcuts?

[ColeValleyGirl]

Personally, I don't think FH options should modify 'standard' shortcut key behaviours.

I'd expect CTL-V to past what's in the clipboard complete with any formatting, and CTL-ALT-V or CTL-SHFT-V to do a 'Paste Special' with options including plain text and relevant conversion options. (There doesn't seem to be any consistent choice for this latter between different programmes).

If the user has chosen to default to plain text, CTL-V might offer a warning?

[NickWalker]

What is others' experience of the Ctrl-V, Ctrl-Shft-V and Ctrl-Something Else-V shortcuts?

I'm finding Ctrl+Shift+V is becoming a standard for pasting unformatted text. It is even available in MS Teams now (although annoyingly not in the Word application). I use it frequently when writing emails or using the online versions of Word as Edge and Chrome support it

I agree that Ctrl+V shouldn't have its behaviour modified (i.e. it should paste formatted text). I can see the advantages of allowing a user to specify that they don't want to use any rich/formatted text at all as an option (in FH Options) and in that circumstance Ctrl+V would paste unformatted text as otherwise pasting formatted text would be ignoring the option set.

[ColeValleyGirl]

We need to cater for 3 use cases:

• Users who want to *only* use rich text
• Users who want to *only* use plain text
• Users who want to use both and choose at the time of entry

So I'd say we want an option to choose the default text type, but support entering both types at all times.