* New user, editing fact Type sentence

[elricks]

Good morning. I have completed a conversion from TMG to FH.

I have replaced a sentence using Tools/Fact Type/click on the fact/ cut-paste the sentence I want from a text editor (see below)/OK

Looking at an individual "facts tab", the sentence has not changed, it is using the previous template. Running an Individual Narrative Report (for checking purposes only), I get the previous sentence.

My new sentence reads - {individual} appeared in the census {date:YEAR} {place} {age}. This is a copy paste from within the fact Definition box, so I am certain my edit has been saved into the fact.

I closed and reopened my project, with the same result.

I am guessing I need to rebuild in some way, but I can't find out how.

[elricks]

More information.

If I add my changed fact as a new fact to any individual who does not have a 1911 census entry, my new sentence structure is used. Therefor I can confirm that my changes have been saved. The help file clearly warns that any changes I make to the sentence template in any given fact will effect all instances of the fact throughout the project, and so far 30 mins of targeted searches in the help files have not produced anything I can understand in reference to an 'original sentence template' being immortal.

I am desperate to get this answered, as I have got a load of tests of sentences to do. I think I may have too many balls in the air at once.

SHIRLEY

[LornaCraig]

Shirley, your fact definition is for a fact called CENS1911a and that is also the name of the label which would appear in the lower part of the facts tab. But the facts tab is showing a fact whose whole label seems to be "In the census on the night of...." so the sentence is the same as the label.

You are looking at two different fact types here. You need edit the one with the long label name.

[tatewise]

Not only that but the fact in your screenshot has a blue arrow icon which indicates it is a shared Fact Witness and derives its Sentence from the Witness Sentence Template reached via the Roles... button in the Tools > Fact Types... screenshot.
See Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates for more details.
There used to be a KB page that explained the icons on the left but it seems to have vanished.
The best I can find is https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... tstab.html but that does not explain the icons and does not even show them all:
Blue bullet: Individual Fact
Red bullet: Family Fact
Blue arrow: Fact Witness
Grey Bullet: Timeline Fact (optional)

I know that in TMG you had many custom Census facts for each year such as CENS1911a.
I think you have now converted them all to standard Census (CENS) events. Please confirm.
If that is true, I suggest you delete all Tools > Fact Types... entries for CENS1841 to CENS1911a, etc, to avoid future confusion.
They are redundant entries created by the earlier TMG direct imports so are no longer relevant.

So the scenario you presented has multiple issues...
The Fact Type you edited is different from the Fact Type shown in the Facts tab screenshot.
The Fact shown in the Facts tab has a Fact Type label that starts "In the census taken on the night of 2nd April 1911, ... "
The Fact shown in the Facts tab is a shared Fact Witness so won't use the Sentence Template anyway.

I think you are correct about having too many balls in the air.
e.g.
AS census Method 1 New User basic query (19570)
Give Witness.. then Migrate Census. Importing from TMG (19551)
Fact Type missing from FH after Conversion from TMG (19559)
TMG conversion of UK census custom tags - new user (19539)

[jbtapscott]

Re,

I think I may have too many balls in the air at once.

and not directly answering your current questions as they have been dealt with above but just to say I spent well over four months "playing" with FH imports from TMG before I finally "went live". Often I would do multiple imports in a day, going back to TMG after each to make minor changes / tweaks. I concentrated on one issue at a time and, where I identified I needed to modify something in FH once the import was completed, I made a note of this so that I built up a "to do" list. I did try to address multiple issues at first (sometimes with the help of the FHUG) but found that approach often ended up causing (me) confusion!. Once I made the final cutover, I then spent a week going through my "to do" list.

I used TMG and Second Site to subsequently generate my website and did not want to change the general style / content of the latter when I moved to FH. I found the approach I used not only ensured that my data was how I wanted it, but it was also a great learning curve in understanding the functionality that FH (and AS) offer.

[elricks]

Thanks, All my census tags in TMG map to CENS. I don't think any of my facts are replicated. I know the list looks odd, but all the census entries in the list are from TMG and are both active and inactive (in TMG). I have more than one tag for any given census year. Only 1 of my Census Tags in TMG for each YEAR was active. The others are left over from previous iterations of tags and are inactive. The reason I had one active tag per census year, was so I could show a full census date in 'reports'. FH functionality means I can rid of that idea.

Your assistance in your reply lead me to the right place, and I looked deeper.

I have found where the original Sentence still exists.

If I click on Roles button (in fact definition window), I can see a list of all the witnesses I had in TMG, and they still have my TMG sentences. There is no principal but there is a Principal 2.

I will edit these tomorrow, lets see how I go.

I don't know how to progress without juggling. My open windows are: TMG database, TGM Help window, Terry's tips page (invaluable and clearly written), FH database, FH Help Window, FH forum. I know my TMG codes, but I don't know FH yet.

So far I have been able to fix some issues back in TMG with other tags. My biggest issue is split memos, next biggest is some 'name codes' (subject} that don't convert. For the tags that I have been able to fix back in TMG, I rewrote my TMG boilerplate sentence to output all to just the one memo - which mostly works, but I may get a sentence or two that is not grammatical. My only real fear was loosing the data, I am not too worried about having to rejig wording.

I changed the code from [SG] (subject given name), to [PG]. I am hoping that this converts to {individual:GIVEN} I have not found what the actual FH code is to get an individual's given name in a report. {individual:GIVEN} is a guess, but I am sure it or something similar must exist. I hope it does anyway.

I have come to the interim conclusion I will need to fix my census in FH. I will simplify by removing all census tags EXCEPT one, if I can merge facts (in FH). If I can't, I will end up with 1 census tag per year, with exactly the same sentences in all of them.

I have come to this conclusion (but I may be wrong) I can't fix my census back in TMG because TMG has 'floating principles' and FH does not. I will know more once I have been able to 'fix' the one census year.

SHIRLEY

[elricks]

jbtapscott - You and me both. My previous post lists all the windows I have open. I did not mention the Spreadsheet that has my to do list, with cols for TMF sentence; FH sentence; TMG output; FH output as well as a comment that tells me what I need to do. Nor the Word Doc which is the txt file I had to convert from the FH Individual Narrative because the FH narrative report is locked - {swearword}

I have worked out that I can 'search' the web for genealogy web sites that have Family Historian and GedSite in them. I can then sort of guess what the FH sentence was when I like the way they have presented census data.

In all honesty, it is mostly the census data that gives me the bases of a personal story and some of the colour. I branch off sometimes into 'place' where I give a snapshot of the parish, or the house if it was special, or a little insight into what being a {occupation} was like in that place in that time. So you can see getting the census output correct is important to me.

SHIRLEY

[tatewise]

Shirley, forgive me but you seem to have got your understanding of Census tags in a muddle.

You say "All my census tags in TMG map to CENS." which means only one Census (CENS) Fact Type should be active in FH.
There may be other CENS1841 to CENS1911 tags defined in the Facts Type list but they are inactive and redundant and should be deleted to avoid confusion. They can not be merged.

Later you talk about "1 census tag per year" which is inconsistent with only one active Census (CENS) Fact Type as above.

I suggest you focus on a Project with just one or two families that have representative Census facts and design your migration strategy around them, and later test it against a larger Project.

The Role of 'Principal 1' is the Individual with the Census (CENS) event in FH. The other Roles apply to the Fact Witnesses.

BTW: You cannot add qualifiers to the {individual} code or any other code except {date}.
Anyway, after its first use {individual} will be replaced by 'he' or 'she' so any qualifiers are of little use.
It is possible to obtain component parts of a Name by using data reference codes such as:
{%CUR_PRIN.NAME:SURNAME%}
{%CUR_PRIN.NAME:GIVEN%}
{%CUR~WITN>NAME:GIVEN_ALL%}
See https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... codes.html for details of all the options for Sentence Template Codes.

[elricks]

Mike, thanks for the reply. There is something about this I am not understanding, but I don't want to take up valuable time with something that I seem to have fixed or worked around. I want to lay out my present situation in case others read this, but there is no need to address the issue further

In TMG I created separate tags for each census year, plus a couple of others . When I entered the data I also entered the year in the date field, and the full date in the date sort field. All these census tags (I have about a dozen) have a GEDCOM: as CENS.

The configuration of the Roles I used within the census tags is not important in this reply, as I am addressing only separate tags for each census year. I have resolved my sentence issue by simplifying the sentence templates in TMG before making my final conversion.

When I look at FH I can see that all these census tags have converted, and they are 'active'. I have not tried to use them to record a census in FH, and I don't plan to. The roles as entered in TMG also converted. See attached

I ALSO have the census fact in FH, which of course was empty after conversion, as I did not have a 'plain' census tag in TMG. I am using AS to enter new data into FH. These new entries use the census fact in FH. I have yet to design sentences for the FH fact, and I am planning to re-design the sentences in my converted census years, but again I have not looked at this yet. I will be hoping for sentences that are interesting to read, and paint the picture of the household. I will NOT be trying to replicate word for word what I had in TMG. I will be starting, as I did in 20th century TMG, by developing an understanding of the CODES embedded in the application I am using.

As my 'end product' will mostly be in HTML format using gedsite, I see no benefit in working out what looks exactly right in a narrative (or other) report. I will, once I get used to adding and amending data inside FH, purchase gedsite, and start work on that aspect.

Note: The data I am currently adding to my DB is 'of interest' but not 'vital'. I can revert back to my save after conversion at any time. As my TMG database is still intact and accessible, I can also revert further back if necessary.

I have no conceptual issue with having 2 separate types of census recording - pre and post conversion. I am hoping there is no TECHNICAL issue with this. I can see a benefit of having 2 sorts of output, as this would add variety to people's stories.

All this conversion stuff came about because I made the decision to move over to Windows 10. (as a laugh, this was the day before Windows 11 was announced). As this was a decision based on proactive planning, and not as a result of a PC crash, I will retain access to my TMG database. I will have an 'old PC' running Win 7 as long as I want - or at least until it finally dies.

[tatewise]

I appreciate that explanation.
The only caveat is with "having 2 separate types of census recording - pre and post conversion".
As has been said before and explained in Recording from a Census Record in FH there are many features and tools that only recognise the GEDCOM standard Census (CENS) events you are using post-conversion.
They will not recognise your pre-conversion custom Census facts derived from TMG as Census events.
Therefore, you will get inconsistent results when using those FH features and tools.
This information is as much for others reading this thread as for Shirley who may be happy to live with those constraints.

[elricks]

Yes Mike, I am willing to live with it.

For clarification, for other TMG users who may be considering using FH to import their data into, is it at all possible to convert TMG entered census data into a format that DOES facilitate access to all FH many features and tools?

What steps would I have to take to convert MY census data into something that is exactly the same as if I had used FH in the first place. In other words REMOVE THE NEED to have pre and post conversion census facts.

SHIRLEY

[tatewise]

If I understand correctly, you have set all your custom census tags in TMG Tools > Master Tag Type List to GEDCOM: CENS.
So, all those custom census tags should import to FH as standard Census events and NOT custom facts like CENS1881.
I am not talking about what you see in the FH Tools > Fact Types list but what you see in the Facts tab of Individuals.

I see in your earlier screenshot that Theophilus ADCOCK does have a CENS1881a fact but was that for a Project imported from TMG to FH after setting CENS1881a to GEDCOM: CENS in the Master Tag Type List?
Please confirm that both CENS1881 and CENS1881a are set to GEDCOM: CENS in the TMG Tools > Master Tag Type List.

Anyway, if the above mapping to Census (CENS) events is not working then you can use the Change Any Fact Tag plugin to change each custom census tag to the standard Census event. It just needs to be run once for each custom tag.