* FH7 or AS7 - error in Death Certificate Template

[garethhowell]

Not sure if this an AS problem or FH 7. I've just been entering a recent death into FH7 using AS.

The auto-generated narrative has two fields in the wrong order compared to the actual certificate. Fields 8 (I certify...) and 9 (Cause of Death) are recorded backwards in the template as 8 (cause of death) and 9 (I certify...)

[NickWalker]

So to try to fill in the gaps in what you've asked. It seems you have added a death record using Ancestral Sources and chose the Auto-text template 'Death Certificate 1969- (England/Wales)'. A death certificate that I have from the 1970s and another from 2007 certainly have field 8 as 'Cause of Death' and 9 as 'I certify' so I don't think there is an 'error' with the template.

Perhaps the order of fields on the certificate changed in the last 15 years, but I don't have any information as to when changes occurred or what changes were made. Another template could be created for this or it may be easier just to edit the source text manually before you save. The auto-text can only ever make a 'best guess' at the transcript and you have to edit it before saving.

So to summarise, it isn't an error, there just isn't a template included with AS for your format of certificate. There are lots of death certificate templates from across the world that are not included with AS, but users are very welcome to create their own, share them in the Knowledge base and I do sometimes add those to AS updates.

Best wishes

Nick

[garethhowell]

OK, thanks Nick.
This cert was only issued last week. So maybe they've changed recently.
Sadly, it's my mother's.
Gareth

[Valkrider]

Nick

Just FYI I have a certificate from 1986 and 1991 they are the same as yours. I have one from 2008 and the order is reversed as per the OP. So somewhen between 1991 and 2008 they must have changed the order.

[NickWalker]

I'm so sorry to hear that Gareth, yes it does sound like a recent change. The death certificate formats I've included are just based on the certificates that I've seen and the most recent I have is from 2006.

Just before posting this, Valkrider replied so it looks as if the change must have been around 2007. Can you confirm that other than fields 8 and 9 being swapped around, the existing template wouldn't need any other changes?

[LornaCraig]

Nick, I have just compared death certs from 2006 and 2014. The only difference is that the order of those two fields has been swapped round. No other difference.

I can only assume that the change was made to clarify that the details about cause of death were not supplied by the informant (they were supplied by the doctor certifying the death) so they are not included in what the informant is certifying.

[NickWalker]

Thanks Lorna - what was the earliest date that you have for when those fields swapped round? I did some googling around and it looks like there were some reforms around 2007 related to findings from the Shipman case so it may be related to that.

[LornaCraig]

I only have the 2014 one after the swap, but Valkrider says he has one from 2008, so it does look as if the change was in 2007/8.

I can see that the Shipman case could have influenced it. They needed to make it clear that the informant was not 'agreeing' in any way with the cause of death supplied by the doctor!

[Valkrider]

The certificate I have is an original and is dated 31July 2008.

[NickWalker]

As is mine and it's from July 2006. So based on this evidence I think if I was to create a template for the new format it would probably be named 'Death Certificate 2007- (England/Wales)' and I'd rename the other to 'Death Certificate 1969-2006 (England/Wales)'. But if anyone has a 2007 certificate to confirm this it would be very helpful.

[NickWalker]

Incidentally, I did sneak a new release of AS out on the Knowledge Base last night, but not had a chance to advertise it further yet, so if any AS users reading this want to download it then please do!

Download AS v7.1

Version History - what's new in AS v7.1

[NickWalker]

I've not 'officially' released v7.1 yet and have now just updated the download to 7.1.2 here: Ancestral Sources v.7.1 to correct a couple of issues prior to announcing the release. I've now replaced the 1969- onwards death certificate RTF template with 2 templates (1969-2007 and 2007-) based on the change we discovered during this discussion.

[garethhowell]

Thanks for the excellent support, Nick