* Source Documents

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peterbel
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Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 16:39

Unsure if this Section or Ancestral Sources was the place for this question, please move if better there.

Reading some of the posts I have found out that I have not been using the 'Sources' features of FH at all :shock: and so it seems I now need to learn AS, remove my Certificate links to individuals and then make them sources instead.
I started reading the AS help file and found it all a bit daunting, a lot to learn to make the above alterations.

Should I persist with AS and battle through or, as I am where I am, work in FH, unlinking (?) and making the images sources?
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Gowermick
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Re: Source Documents

Post by Gowermick » 19 Nov 2020 17:00

Peter, you seem to be confusing sources and Ancestral Sources.

All facts should have a source associated with them, to let one know how you came across the information. When adding a census for a family, for example, one has to add the census fact and occupations for all members of a household, so one could be repeating the same actions for many individuals.

Ancestral Sources was produced to streamline/automate this exercise. Personally, I don’t use AS, preferring to keep tight control of my data, and do it myself. Nevertheless, I still add a source to very fact added to my tree.
Hope that make things clear😀
Mike Loney

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 17:25

I guess I am confused! :?
As I said I have never used it, just relied on text comments and images/document links.
I will have to read the Sources section of FH manual and see how I can modify my data.
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LornaCraig
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Re: Source Documents

Post by LornaCraig » 19 Nov 2020 17:27

It depends how many facts you have already entered in FH which have been derived from each doument. For example if you have a marriage certificate have you recorded only the date and place of the marriage, or have you also recorded all the other facts which can be gleaned from it, such as the occupations of the bride and groom, their approximate dates of birth, their residences, their fathers' names and their fathers' occupations?

Ancestral Sources helps to automate the creation of these additional facts and creates the source which is cited against each fact. But if you already have all those facts it might be best just to create a source for the certificate yourself in FH, attach the image to the source and then cite the source against all the existing facts.
Lorna

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 17:37

Thanks Lorna.
I have manually added most of the data from certificates etc, but perhaps not as rigorously as AS would prompt me to do it. I will explore the FH manual approach, that way I will hopefully learn a bit about the options and results.
You'd think I had just started using FH, I started with Version 4 ! :oops:
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 19 Nov 2020 17:58

Peter, take a look at Knowledge Base > Recording Facts and Sources that has much useful advice.

The advantages of Ancestral Sources is it streamlines the often repetitive nature of adding Facts & Source Citations and it ensures they are all created in a consistent fashion, which becomes important as soon as you want to start analysing your data.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mark1834
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Re: Source Documents

Post by Mark1834 » 19 Nov 2020 18:56

Peter, definitely do it manually first so you can get a proper feel for what Source records are and how they work. Then make up your own mind about whether to use AS as an aid or not. Some on here couldn’t imagine life without it, while others prefer to have full control of their data, so don’t be railroaded into one particular working style.
Mark Draper

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 19:16

Thanks Mike and Mark,
Started reading the FH V5 Manual Chapter 12, it seems to be describing a different Automatic Citations panel to the one in FH 6.2.7 ?? :?
Moving over to FHUG KB and see if I can follow that!
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 19 Nov 2020 19:30

Yes, the Automatic Source Citations dialogue was updated in FH V6 although the underlying concepts are much the same.
If you are going to struggle with such discrepancies it may be better to buy the FH V6 version of the manual, but beware that it will change again with FH V7.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 20:27

In my defence it is hard to follow step by step instructions for this:
FH4 Auto SC.jpg
FH4 Auto SC.jpg (118.31 KiB) Viewed 568 times

When what you are faced with this:
FH6 Auto SC.PNG
FH6 Auto SC.PNG (59.99 KiB) Viewed 568 times
particularly when I am feeling my way and trying to learn.

Please bear in mind Mike that you understand FH and what is under the bonnet, what is obvious for you is new ground to a beginner. Please don't take offence, your help for me and so many others is invaluable.
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tatewise
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 19 Nov 2020 20:48

Peter, skip that section in the V5 Manual and either buy the V6 Manual or take a look at the video tutorials provided in the Knowledge Base > Recording Facts and Sources which mostly use that earlier Automatic Source Citation dialogue.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Source Documents

Post by Valkrider » 19 Nov 2020 21:16

Peter

If you want to stick with Auto Source Citation I did a video on it on YouTube at https://youtu.be/PrBOcHAwc1o It is only 9 minutes long so may be worth a look.

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 21:41

Thanks Colin, I'll check it out. :)
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LornaCraig
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Re: Source Documents

Post by LornaCraig » 19 Nov 2020 21:44

Another technique you might find useful when adding source citations to your existing facts is to copy and paste the citation. This doesn't use the Automatic Source Citation pane at all. (Personally I never use it!). Simply create the Source record and attach the image to it. Go to the first fact which is derived from it and Add Citation, selecting the new source. Then copy that citation (using the icon just to the right of Add Citation), navigate to the next fact and paste the citation (the next icon to the right). Repeat until all the relevant facts have the source citation.
Lorna

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 19 Nov 2020 22:33

Thanks again Lorna, I will experiment and try your method tomorrow. :)
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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 22 Nov 2020 15:21

Getting there, the mist is slowly clearing!
Why/what do the
Marr. (George) Census (family)[n]
choices I have here represent?
Thanks
Citation.jpg
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 22 Nov 2020 16:16

That Sources For: droplist lists all the items that are eligible for Source Citations.
Only the ones ending with an asterisk (*) actually have any Source Citations.
i.e.
Name, Birth, Death of the current person do not have citations.
Similarly, her Spouse (George) has no citations for his facts, except for the 2nd Census (that is what [2] means) so if you look in the Facts tab for George there will be two Census facts.
But they both have citations against their <whole record>s.

The Family (Marr.) record for her & George holds four Census (family) facts and the first three have citations.
So in the Facts tab for both her & George there are 4 Census (family) facts.

BTW:
It is generally inadvisable to use Census (family) facts and better to give each spouse their own Census fact like George has.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 22 Nov 2020 17:12

Thanks Mike.
BTW:
It is generally inadvisable to use Census (family) facts and better to give each spouse their own Census fact like George has.
I didn't know I had so some backtracking needed.
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 22 Nov 2020 17:22

If you did not add them, then maybe they came in GEDCOM you have imported?
See Knowledge Base > Recording from a Census Record for the general advice.
The popular strategy is to add a Census event to each member of the household appearing in the Census.
The Date, Place & Address in each one would be the same and match the Census page details.
They will all have the same Citation linking to a Source record holding the Census page details and maybe its image.
It is also popular to add Birth and Occupation facts to those people and use the same Citation, because occupations are often given on the Census page and the place of birth & age provides Birth details.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 23 Nov 2020 12:31

Yes I have imported from a couple of GEDCOMS, that would explain it.
I have now deleted family and linked it to the individuals.

I still haven't found the most convenient way of typing up the source details, keeping the Certificate image open whilst updating the Source record.
And, is the only way to add a new Source record using the drop down menu, even when the Sources page is open?
Once complete the Copy and Paste Lorna mentioned makes it an easy move to others, I suppose this something AS does for you. However I think I will first get comfortable with doing it 'manually' before progressing to Automation!
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 23 Nov 2020 12:39

If you mean the Sources tab in the Records Window then you can right-click anywhere to the right of the Source Records column and choose New Source. That also works on any other tab to create records.

Yes, AS automates all that repetitive creating of Facts and Citations and ensures you do it consistently.
However, it is wise to understand how to do it manually. Then you will appreciate how useful AS is.

One advantage of AS is you can display the Certificate/Census image in a floating window while you fill in the Text From Source data in its main window.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 23 Nov 2020 12:53

Thanks Mike, useful tips as always!
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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 23 Nov 2020 14:35

I like to be able to say, one last question, but who knows :)
Recap: I am adding Source links to individuals/facts.
Is there simple way of determining which of my Media aren't currently a Source?
My Media are divided into Certificates, Documents, and Photographs.
Certificates are sub-divided into Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Death and Census.
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Re: Source Documents

Post by tatewise » 23 Nov 2020 14:56

Peter, can you clarify your question a bit more.
I think you want to end up with all the Media as follows:
Those held in the Photographs folder linked to Individual or Family records.
Those held in the Certificates folder linked to Source records.
What about the Documents folder?

I suspect some in the Certificates folder are still linked to Individual or Family records and it is those you want to find.
Or have you unlinked all those and you just want to find those unlinked Media?

Have you only ever linked Media to the Media tab or have you also linked to Facts, Places, or Citations?

Can your objective be restated as:
List all Media that are located in the Certificates folder and are linked to Individual records on the Media tab.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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peterbel
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Re: Source Documents

Post by peterbel » 23 Nov 2020 15:27

Mike thanks for sticking with this for me.
tatewise wrote:
23 Nov 2020 14:56
Those held in the Photographs folder linked to Individual or Family records.
Those held in the Certificates folder linked to Source records.
Yes in both cases.

The documents folder is a mixed bag, autobiographies, Newspaper clippings, Word and Excel FH Notes, Letters, Service Records etc. I am delaying going through those until the easier decisions are made.

Nearly all the Certificates are images that have been linked to individuals, some are now Sources. I have not unlinked any of them at the moment. A few are Pending and are not linked to anything.
tatewise wrote:
23 Nov 2020 14:56
I suspect some in the Certificates folder are still linked to Individual or Family records and it is those you want to find.
Yes again.
tatewise wrote:
23 Nov 2020 14:56
Have you only ever linked Media to the Media tab or have you also linked to Facts, Places, or Citations?
Generally I have only ever used Simple Link, either on the Media tab or the Unlinked Media option in Media. So I think the answer is no. Unless importing a GEDCOM has done it, links are limited to Families and Individuals.
Like the idea of Linking Photos to Places though, not thought of that!
tatewise wrote:
23 Nov 2020 14:56
List all Media that are located in the Certificates folder and are linked to Individual records on the Media tab.
Almost as some have also become Sources, if possible it would be nice to ignore those.
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