* Census Events imported from TMG

[E Wilcock]

I have a considerable problem with some (but not all) census import and would appreciate some help sorting it out.
A previous thread discussed Census events and how they are best handled for fh and Gedsite etc.
TMG UK Census Fact Definition (14579)
I do not want to repeat that debate here. My census events were added over a long period of time and in successive styles. I do not want to alter them. But would appreciate help with TMG Census events already imported.
The types of Census I have are.

1. entered as a shared event for a couple, and the other members of the household each having own census event. In those days I often listed all members of a household in the Notes field. At this stage there was a single source entry for each census entry. That was because I handled census entries as sources for other information and not as Events. The hints in fh reveal how many 1881 census entries are lacking.
2. In TMG I eventually adopted the Witness system where the man and wife have a shared sentence event and other members of the household are entered with witness roles. At this stage there was an overall source for the Census of each year and the file vol and page reference was a local citation.
3. those entered after moving to fh. Using Ancestral sources. This reverts to the situation I used first. Since I failed to specify which source type I use, (as I use both) I am not sure what it is doing about sources. But that is not relevant to this thread.

Before importing from TMG I changed all my dated UK census Tags to plain Census. They seem to have come in to FH as family tags.

To get rid of the witnesses in group 2 and give each person their own census event, I tried to run the plug in. However, I don't think it affected the Censuses because they are family events?

The cases I have looked at, their only link to a particular census on the Facts Tab remains via the census blue icon.
This means I am left with household members in censuses who no longer have any role other than Witness.

The census witness sentence is " {individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}"
The role name is now Witness.

I would like someone please to give clear and simple instructions on what to do about this.
1. to choose (restore) roles?
2. then edit the sentence both locally and centrally. (which may not be needed once the roles are sorted out)

Working locally, I don't understand how to enter text so that it appears in the field marked {label}. Or maybe it isnt done locally. May be one has to go back to the parental census entries to which they were originally a witness and enter the information there?
I think I fail to grasp how sentences are handled in fh. Is label always the name or an event or attribute?
I may have been confusing the word label with the word role?
Forgive me if there are already answers to how to handle this - once again my searches of the Forum posts have been rejected as TMG Census is too common a search term.
I have a lot of censuses entered with TMG witness roles and I would like to know the quickest way of sorting them out.

[tatewise]

OK, let's start near the end and work back.

When editing a Sentence Template or a Witness Sentence Template there is an Help button.
That give advice about the dialogue, and for those two Template fields has a link to Template Codes.
That is where the purpose of codes such as {label} and {role name} are explained.
e.g.
Fact Label (e.g. 'Occupation')
Code: {label}
Inserts the fact label (e.g. 'Occupation').
i.e. The text in the Label box in the Fact Definition dialogue, which for the current discussion is Census (family).

Role Name
Code: {role name}
Witness sentences only. Will be replaced by the current witness's role in the current fact (e.g. the word 'bridesmaid' if that was their role).
i.e. The text in the Role Name box in the Edit Role dialogue, which for the current discussion is Witness.

It sounds like you have use the Fact Definition dialogue Roles... button to Add a new Witness role.
That provides a default Witness Sentence Template of {individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}.
It is up to you to customise that Template to make the Sentence say what you want.
If you want the Sentence to say "He appeared in the census on 1 April 1818 in London, England."
Then the Template would be {individual} appeared in the census {date} {place}

To get rid of the witnesses in group 2 and give each person their own census event, I tried to run the plug in. However, I don't think it affected the Censuses because they are family events?

In Look Up Missing Census Facts - Existing entries? (14970) various options were mentioned. One was an enhancement to Give Witnesses Their Own Facts for Census (family) events. That enhancement has been added to the attachment below. That leaves the Census (family) event but without Witnesses and creates a Census event for each Individual who was a Witness.

[EDIT: The ATTACHMENT has been deleted as it is now updated in the Plugin Store.]

Then, if you wanted, I have a Plugin to split each Census (family) event into two separate Census events.

[E Wilcock]

Thank you Mike. I will work through all this as I need to learn fh.

But the important thing is that I could run the updated plug in and remove all the witnesses?

What would be the benefit of removing the family aspect of a census? I am not used to family events - but they are part of fh.

[E Wilcock]

After backing up entirely, I ran the new plug in on one project. Thank you Mike.
But I have lost the TMG roles - I think this suggests that it would be better to edit all the censuses in TMG to before importing. I have another project which I may try handling differently.

[E Wilcock]

I can now feed back why I am so lost.
Yes, I go to the fact definition and click on roles and add a name son or daughter. But there is a field for a past tense used in Fact Tab of the property box. I am told , Please supply missing value.

But the sentence is already in the past tense and I dont understand the reference to the Fact Tab.
So what must one type here?

I put in <listed as {role name}> but I really have no idea what I am doing.
And the help for local problems doesnt function once you get the pane where you need to fill this in.

And once I have edited the census, I dont know whether the re-entering of each census witness entry and the witness roles takes place at the original household and then shows up on the children's facts tab or whether one can correct it via the children?

There needs to be a simple To do list for people coming in from TMG with census witness entries all of which it seems need to be altered.

[tatewise]

Let's deal with running the Plugin Give Witnesses Their Own Facts.
The objective is to get rid of the Witness Roles completely for Census events.
The resulting arrangement is similar to using AS and have a separate Census event for each Individual, but all sharing the same Source Citation.
In other words, convert all your type 2. imported Witnessed events to type 1. & 3. separate Census events.
Once completed, you will NOT have to cope with defining Witness Roles, and all Census data will adopt the AS style in future.

[E Wilcock]

The problem is Mike that the import from TMG, which I had believed to be complete, has lost all the witness roles. (Roots magic import from TMG does the same but does report a list of people who shared the same census entry)

But in fh, using your plug in on this imported data, the text reads Witness role: witness (not sure of the exact format but roughly speaking)

I used your plug in on one imported project.
But on another I decided that I should first (possibly) try to enter the witness roles that were in TMG by editing centrally. That is, before using your plug in. And to do this by creating witness roles similar to those I used in TMG.

But I am unable to create these roles as I do not know what is required in the little past tense boxes?
The route is Tools / Fact Types/ Fact Definition/roles (ignore what I put in. I typed rubbish to over ride the fh embargo on creating roles.)
And I do not know if I should also click on advanced and put something into the next pane.

[tatewise]

Migrating from one product to another will only transfer the raw 'Gedcom' data, i.e. in this context the Facts, and Witnesses linked to those Facts. There is no recognised format for transferring anything else.

So the definition of Fact Types and their Sentence Templates and Witness Roles must be reviewed/created, especially for custom Facts and Roles.

In the Edit Role dialogue click Help for an explanation of the boxes.
Also for inspiration/examples, look at the Role definitions in other Facts ~ plagiarisation works for me!
The Role Name must match the Role of an imported Witness.
So your Census (family) events must have Witnesses with the Role of Son for that to work.
The Past Tense is simply what you want to appear in the top pane of the Facts tab for the Witness.
In this case Son will probably be OK.
I suggest the Witness Sentence Template could be :-
{individual} is recorded as the son of {principal} in the Census {date} {place}

The Advanced button allows what appears in the top pane of the Facts tab for the Witness to be customised.
If the default is satisfactory then don't go there.

Regarding the Plugin, the text is just a Note to remind you what the Witness Role was in the original Census (family) event.
You can either ignore it, delete it, or use it in the Sentence Template for the Census event.
If the Census event had been created by AS then that Note would not exist, so to be consistent just ignore/delete it.
Your example indicates that the Witness Role in the Census (family) event had been Witness.
Whereas, the equivalent for your Edit Role case above would be Witness Role: Son instead.

[E Wilcock]

Thank you Mike, That is all I needed to know. I was totally confused by the software requesting a past tense when the sentence below was already in the past tense.
I cant really refer to other witness roles and copy them as I dont use them. I dont know if there is an example in the sample file.

Yes I did understood all that your plug in did and where the role emanated. I am grateful for it.

[tatewise]

The Family Historian Sample Project has Witness Roles for at least Residence and Marriage facts.

[E Wilcock]

Thank you.