* FH V6.1 and FTM Citation Media

[tatewise]

(BTW: I am posting here because this issue has wider implication than just importing from FTM.)

Lots of users are experiencing difficulties in migrating Source Citation Media from FTM to FH.
Importing Images from FTM2014 (13090)
What is wrong with the FH import from FTM (13158)
FTM to FH PDF multi page files (13136)
New to FH media from FTM 2011 failed (13218)
Media not showing up in the property box (13229)
and more plus similar postings on the [FHU] Email List.

The explanation is that FTM links Source Media directly to the Citation itself.
Which is the Source Method 2 technique also employed by AS.

BUT, in FH those Citation Media are hidden on the All tab of the Individual Property Box and have no Media management tab. You can get at them via the View Multimedia camera icon on main tool bar. None of which is intuitive to a new user.

What is needed is a Show Media camera button on the Sources for yellow pane toolbar, similar to the one on the Facts tab.

If Calico Pie do not make this change, how many potential FTM migrants will give up without asking for help?
So over to you Simon...

[tatewise]

Even better would be if the Individual > Media tab listed all Media similar to the way the Notes tab lists many Notes.

But the Media tab should go a bit further and include all Media linked to:

• both the Individual and their Family records directly.
• any Facts of both the Individual and their Family records.
• any Citations of both the Individual and their Family records.

[LornaCraig]

I understand your point but I think it would confuse some users if media linked to Citations were included but media linked to Sources were not as some people may use both, either deliberately or inadvertently.

But then the Media tab would be listing, and showing thumbnails for, almost all the media that can be viewed using the menu option to View Media Linked to XXX in Media Window. (That option can also include media linked to Associated Places.)

The result would be a potentially huge number of media items on the Individual's media tab. I think there would need to be an option to hide all the media not directly linked to the individual, or perhaps the individual plus their family record, in the same way that fact notes can optionally be hidden on the Notes tab.

[tatewise]

Those are valid points Lorna, and options to hide classes of Media in Media tab as per Notes tab is what I meant, but with the addition of Citation Media. (Notes tab could gain Citation Notes to be compatible?)

What I am more concerned about is migrating new users who cannot initially see their Citation Media at all, and even when found on the All tab, cannot be opened in a Media window, except via the main toolbar View Multimedia camera button, which is non-intuitive.

Source Media can be opened via the Show Multimedia yellow cube+arrow button.
Citation Media could perhaps be incorporated into that button, but does not allow Citation Media to be added, so a camera button would solve that. It does not necessarily need the Media tab enhancements - they are just nice to have.

The various alternative ways of accessing Media comes with experience, but new migrants will give up and move on to another product before then if they think FH mishandles their Citation Media.

[LornaCraig]

Citation Media ...... cannot be opened in a Media window, except via the main toolbar View Multimedia camera button, which is non-intuitive.

They can be opened in the Media window using View Media Linked to XXX in Media Window, as one of its options is to show media linked to Associated Sources and Source Citations. I agree that this would not be immediately obvious to a new user, but it does mean that if they find that menu item they will get both the source-linked and the citation-linked media.

[tatewise]

Not strictly a probem for new migrants, but those View/Show Media options do not allow a Citation Media item to be easily added in the way a Sources pane camera button would (akin to the Facts tab camera button).

[DarrylGale]

Mike - finally the thread I've been waiting for and I would suggest the same for a lot of FTM users!
I'm a FTM user, purchased FH a few weeks ago, I've had a few posts on the forum, and now I've decided to wait for FTM solutions from FH until I proceed any further. However - as a FTM user there is one issue that I have had from the day that I purchased FH and that is the opposite way it uses sources, citations and media - and the future FH solution to this issue will determine whether I will use FH or go to a different program.
My GEDCOM from FTM into FH puts all my sources and citations in the right boxes, however I cannot see a media item within the citation unless I click on the All tab or as Lorna says via the Media window. That's great, but that indirect method would drive me away from FH. I add media to a citation in FTM and I would like to do the same in FH and also be able to see the media item. As Mike said the solution is enhancements to the media tab and a media button on the citation page, it's easy to see, it's simple, and it would work. Perhaps the "Show Media" and the "Add Media" buttons could have a drop down list to select media and/or add media to sources or a citation?
I have about 150 sources with thousands of citations and as I run a TNG website with life stories for my ancestors all of the information from a document is entered partly in the citation "Where within Source" and the majority in the citation "Text from Source" as I require this information to be shown on my TNG website in the Sources pane at the bottom of each individual page. Therefore I prefer to use citations over sources i.e. the FTM method rather than the FH method.
The FTM system works for me and even if I didn't have a TNG website why would I want to change? Why would I change thousands of citations to sources? Why would I relink all my images to a source? There's no gain here for me just a massive undertaking and prior threads on this issue have not provided any clear solution other than that's the way FH does it.
If a media button was added to the citation window then I recommend a citation enhancement for the "Where within Source" pane and the "Text from Source" pane where both panes be "visually" increased and the "Note" pane be "visually" decreased to say one or two lines only - that would then be similar to what FTM offers.
I call FH "frustratingly good" as it can be difficult to find how to do something as I evaluate it and then it keeps surprising me as there's always a solution when I encounter a road block - which is usually from Mike as his working knowledge of FH is exceptional and Mike's comment about "If Calico Pie do not make this change, how many potential FTM migrants will give up without asking for help?" is very accurate.
Let me explain as this next bit is for Simon - I'm only one lone voice here however there are many potential FH users out there you might be unaware of. I belong to a genealogy group in Australia. There is an active forum, monthly newsletter, training classes, software sales, etc and there are in excess of 500 FTM users within this group who are looking for a new home. The committee have reinforced several times on the forum about the need not to panic or rush into something they may later regret and they will continue to monitor and advise on all the genealogy programs especially exporting complete FTM files.
Why would these FTM users change to a program if they had to restructure all their data and change their method of sources, citations and media especially for those FTM users who also have Ancestry Trees? They would prefer to move to a program that processes their data input similar to FTM so Mike's thread is indeed important for Calico Pie and I wouldn't be writing this if it wasn't.
Another consideration is a reply to one of my Australian forum posts....."one of the issues is that if you use the excellent FTM Shown Mills Source Templates, these do not appear to be addressed by any GEDCOM transfer as yet....." so this could be another source/citation issue for Calico Pie to consider to win over FTM users. See FTM Shown Mills Source Templates (13246).
My Australian genealogy group would be similar to many genealogy groups around the world that will bide their time during 2016 until their committees make a member recommendation as to GEDCOM issues and how familiar a different program is to FTM. There will be many familiarisation issues but more so with sources, citations and media which could influence a person's decision and this thread is the positive feedback that Calico Pie requires if they are to respond to win over potential FTM users. If FH doesn't stack up then other competitors may win their business.
I would be interested as to comments from other FTM users in regards to sources, citations and media in FH as I prefer not to be the lone voice here so please speak up as weight in numbers achieves results.
As Mike said - So over to you Simon...

Regards

Darryl

[Paws]

I'd like to second everything Darryl said.

I've successfully imported a gedcom from FTM 2014 and run the suggested plug-ins, and I'd love to start using FH in earnest - but I can't until I understand what I'm doing with my source/citation media.

Everything I've read suggests that 'method 1' works best with FH, but with 1000+ pieces of media, reworking everything is a thought that makes my heart sink. On the other hand, I find 'method 2' really hard to get my head around. Why, unlike FTM, are extra copies of the citation created if you link it elsewhere, for example? I've also tried attaching media to a citation in the sample project without success.
Ooh, and it would be nice to able to see at a glance that I have supporting media for a fact etc without having to hunt for it in a list of all media associated with a person.

I hope this doesn't sound too negative - it's not meant to be, and I really like what I've seen of FH.

[Orijohnal]

Please add me to the list of FTM refugees who have felt tortured by FH's media methodology. Thank you Darryl for your comprehensive post. While I can live with accessing media via the "View media linked . . ." method, it is very frustrating to click on the Properties "Show Media" button and not see (for example) the birth certificate associated with that highlighted fact. FH is otherwise such a slick refuge from those mercenaries at Ancestry, I too am on hold in hopes of a smoother migration method and a solution to this issue.

[AdrianBruce]

... Why, unlike FTM, are extra copies of the citation created if you link it elsewhere, for example? ....

To explain (not justify) - that's because FH follows the GEDCOM data model and FTM doesn't - FTM sticks in an extra level to enable the content of the citation to be stored once and only but to be used from several facts. So I understand based on earlier exchanges.

[tatewise]

Paws wrote: I've also tried attaching media to a citation in the sample project without success.

See glossary:sources|> Sources especially under Information recorded within a citation and Sources and Citations - how to use them.

Paws wrote: it would be nice to able to see at a glance that I have supporting media for a fact

See how_to:understanding_expressions|> Understanding Expressions under Override Templates at the end and the screenshot in Sources, Citations and Methods.

[DarrylGale]

Mike re: Information recorded within a citation and Sources and Citations - how to use them - I have tried this previously and I tried it again today and I can only link an image back to a source and not to a citation. Every time I link a different image to a different citation that belongs to the same source another image is added to the same source. If I had 200 citations to one source then I would see 200 images applied against the same source and spread across many individuals. Can you please try it and advise.

Paws re: it would be nice to be able to see at a glance that I have supporting media for a fact - I asked the same question on this forum re sources & media attached to a fact and the solution is in the link on the above thread. The media is linked to the source and not the individual. You need to do the following on every fact and I have summarised it below from the thread for you so all you have to do is copy and paste:

Facts Tab - to show if a source and/or media item is attached to the Fact - if you want to keep the Facts more neatly aligned

Facts Tab
Select Fact > Edit > Advanced > Tick - "Use Override Template for Facts tab listings"

For a Fact Event:

{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>% ), "*", "-" )}{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>OBJE% ), "+", " -" )} {abbr} {place}

For a Fact Attribute:

{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>% ), "*", "-" )}{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>OBJE% ), "+", " -" )} {abbr} {value}

e.g. for a birth fact
*+ Born means Source + Media
* - Born means Source no Media
- - Born means no Source no Media

or whatever other symbols you prefer except leading spaces that get ignored.


Facts Tab - to show if a source and/or media item is attached to the Fact for the Records window listing

Facts Tab
Select Fact > Edit > Advanced > Tick - "Use Override Template for Record Window listings"

{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>% ), "*", "-" )}{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR>OBJE% ), "+", " -" )} {abbr} {date}

[tatewise]

@Darryl: As it says in the KB advice, are you right-clicking the Source item on the LEFT under Record, NOT the Source record title with the yellow icon.

CitationMedia.png (34.74 KiB) Viewed 8697 times

Regarding Facts tab identifying existence of Citation Media, do NOT use those expressions, because they are for Source record Media, so instead use this:

{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR% ), "*", "-" )}{=TextIf( Exists( %FACT.SOUR.OBJE>% ), "+", " -" )}

plus the desired {abbr} {place} {date} {value} codes.

[Paws]

Thanks to everyone who's posted advice / explanations. I'll have another play and no doubt come back with more questions.

[DarrylGale]

My apologies Mike as yesterday and previously I must have clicked elsewhere on the same line as I had the same dropdown list as per the KB advice. I must be more careful in the future but it tells me that FH can be very intuitive in every pane. I've added an image to a citation and changed the Facts tab identifier and it works perfectly.....if only I had a link to click to see the image from the yellow citation pane!
You respond to just about every thread on the forum - I hope you get some spare time to do your own family research?