* 1939 Register

[jsphillips]

Can one add 1939 Register as a fact ?
To show address Schedule & Sub schedule numbers and also the full RG101 codes
I would be grateful if I could be guided to add as a custom fact
Thank you

[tatewise]

Why not just use the standard Census Event since the 1939 Register is a form of census, and that standard event is more portable? If you want the Narrative Sentence to say 1939 Register instead of 1939 Census then a simple conditional test of the Date and perhaps Place (Country) should support that.

Alternatively, use Tools > Fact Types > New to create a custom Register Event almost the same as the Census Event and use it in the same way.

I am thinking about extending the Lookup Missing Census Facts Plugin to include the 1939 Register, but it can only work if a standard Census Event is used, otherwise how would the Plugin know whether it is missing or not, because it cannot know what custom Fact you might use. A similar argument would apply if AS were to support the 1939 Register as it would be far easier if it created Census Events.

[tatewise]

Courtesy of Irene Blackburn, I've added a UK 1939 Register template to the downloads, but it will need a KB update before it appears in the Download AS Templates index:
fhugdownloads:contents:ancestral_sources_template_census_uk_1939_register|> Ancestral Sources Template ~ Census UK 1939 Register

A revised Tools > Fact Type > Census > Edit > Sentence Template: could be:

{individual} appeared in the {=TextIf(GetDisplayText(%FACT.DATE%,min) = "29 September 1939","register","census")} {date} {place} {age}

which tests the Census Fact Date and if 29 September 1939 then displays register but otherwise displays census as in original narrative sentence.

See also the posting 1939 Register on Find My Past (12981).

[jsphillips]

Thank you Mike
For the poor " under techied" individuals like myself, could you not setup as you suggested a fact which I could just download please so that the sentence shows 1939 register instead of Census. ie a similar situation to the AS download.
I am sure a number of FH users would be pleased
Thank you

[AlisonG]

Thanks Irene & Mike
Really appreciate you sharing this - for a beginner FH user like me it's made entering the 1939 register a treat.

Alison

[tatewise]

John, simply use the Tools > Fact Types > Census > Edit command and Copy & Paste the Sentence Template text provided.

You cannot use a different custom 1939 Register fact, because that won't work with the AS UK 1939 Template nor with my proposed update to the Lookup Missing Census Facts Plugin.

[Lynne1612]

I'm a non-techie but I've just tried this and it works beautifully. Thank you very much Mike and Irene.

Lynne

[mitcheip]

Just tried out the new 1939 template in Ancestral Sources and was wondering where any "comment" information entered against each name in AS is stored in FH

[tatewise]

As with every AS Census entry, the entire Census Grid (including Comments) is saved in the Source record Text From Source field, forming in this case a transcript of all individuals recorded in the 1939 Register household.

See ancestralsources:ancestral_sources_tutorial_entering_census_facts|> Ancestral Sources Tutorial ~ Enter Census Facts.

[tatewise]

Please see new Lookup Missing Census Facts for 1939 Register (13030).

[ericmjones]

I downloaded the template and installed it - it shows up in Ancestral Sources. I added the census/register statement to census in FH. The entries all show as Census - what have I done wrong?

[tatewise]

Eric, please click User Control Panel at top of this web page and in its Profile tab set your Family Historian Version so it appears to the right of your posting and we know which version you are using.

The Census Event change to Template only affects the Sentence for Narrative Reports shown at bottom of Facts tab, and only if the Date is 29 Sep 1939.

Where are you expecting the change?

Via the Advanced button you can set the Facts tab Template to:

{=TextIf(GetDisplayText(%FACT.DATE%,min) = "29 September 1939","Register","Census")} {place}

That will change the entry in the Fact column in the central pane.

But nothing can change the Fact label Census just above the Date box, because it is a Census Event.

[ericmjones]

Thanks - I understand now.

[capnkeith]

Excuse my ignorance but I have just started on the 1939 Registration and am a bit confused with the KB Template. I have downloaded it and amended as per instructions but when viewing the template, for "Title:" it has inserted "Census 1939 RG101". Should that have changed Census into Register? Also is the RG101 correct? Maybe I have missed it somewhere, but the ones I have downloaded do not have RG101 on them. They have ED Letter code which consists of 4 letters then a Registration Dist and Sub District which is numbers.

[tatewise]

Keith,
If you perform a Google Search for 1939 Register RG101 you will find plenty of references including the General Register Office: National Registration: 1939 Register that use the RG101 reference.

The Title Template is not defined by any of the Census Templates but by the Tools > Options > Census settings - method 1/2, and the media Image Title Template by the Tools > Options > Census settings. So either change the settings while capturing a batch of 1939 Register entries, or manually edit the Title: box before saving to FH.

BTW: A long time ago I removed the word Census from both Title Templates so they just start with {YEAR}.

[AdrianBruce]

The ED Letter code and the Registration District / Sub District references are those written on the form and used by the authorities when compiling and (no doubt) using them.

The RG 101/1111A type reference has been applied (very recently) by The National Archives after the (digital) preservation of the records.

By convention, English & Welsh genealogy uses the (post-preservation) TNA reference numbers for censuses, rather than the ED etc. codes used when the censuses were created. The 1939 Register can be handled in the same way, using the TNA reference.

Oddly, the RG101 reference does not appear in the filename when you download from FMP - instead, you get "R39" for "1939 Register". What I would term the "piece" number appears twice in the filename - as "1111-1111A" in my example. TNA's full reference works at the 1111A level, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a hidden 1111-1111A entry in their catalogue covering 1111A, 1111B, 1111C, etc. Every other piece number I've known from TNA has been numeric, so I had to double check what TNA's Discovery Catalogue uses as the visible reference and it is the 1111A type code.

[LornaCraig]

Keith,

When you look at a household transcript in FMP you will find that the R101 reference appears at the bottom of the transcript under the list of names. The quickest way to record it (for example in Ancestral Sources) is to copy and paste it from the FMP transcript. As Adrian has said, there is a subtle difference between this reference and the file name of the downloaded image. Sometimes the RG101 reference shown by FMP is followed by a 'Letter Code' which is the ED Letter code shown on the image, but sometimes it is omitted. The Registration district and sub-district only appear on the form itself. For example:

Reference at foot of transcript
Ref: RG101/6938J/016/8

Image file name
TNA_R39_6938_6938J_016

ED, Reg district and sub-district on form
WKQL 263-1

[susanpenter]

I have followed the instructions above and imported the 1939 template, I'm not sure what I may have done wrong but all the elements seem to be working as with the other census years and the correct census style facts are being entered into Family Historian however where information such as date of birth has altered I am not being asked if I wish to make this change AS is just shutting down and adding the entries, have I missed a step somewhere?

Thanks for any advice,

Susan

[tatewise]

I believe the 1939 Template is derived directly from the standard AS Census Templates and so should behave the same way.

Anyway, I think the Birth Date & Place update options are in the AS Tools > Options settings. So is it possible they have been accidentally changed? If you perform a trial Census entry for another year how does Birth updating behave?

[brianlummis]

I'm not sure if there is a bug somewhere as I had the same sort of experience with dates of birth. I was sure that I had been asked if I wanted to use the birth date this morning but during the day it stopped reminding me. Closing and reopening AS cured the problem but unfortunately I can't remember the sequence of events prior to it failing.

Perhaps this particular topic should be transferred to the AS section of the board.

[NickWalker]

If you're entering a census record and the birth events form doesn't appear when you save then the reasons this could happen include:
1) Census doesn't have an age, birth place or date of birth column
2) You've not entered age, place of birth or date
3) In Census options you don't have 'Offer to Create Birth Facts' ticked.
4) You don't have the census birth option 'even if existing birth includes place and date' ticked and all the individuals already have data in their birth fact place and date fields.

[susanpenter]

As suggested I used the census entry with one of the other census years and as usual I had all the pop ups asking if I wish to make the changes. I have opened and closed AS independently of FH as suggested by Brian but unfortunately this didn't resolve anything. However I cracked it with option 4 on Nick's list obviously for previous census entries this did not apply as the complete date of birth has not been supplied.

Thanks for the help.

Susan

[brianlummis]

It was option 4 that caught me out as well. In my defence, I have just carried out a clean install of Windows 10 which meant reinstalling AS and I missed ticking that option!

Brian

[jsphillips]

I dont use AS and I am sure it is brilliant
As Mike suggested at the time I set up this posting, I now use the Census tab for entering 1939 register and just use date as 29th September 1939. and use source as RG101/1234A/000/02 Letter code AAAA.

(1) I have found the plug ins for missing census of course do not pick this up. Is it possible for someone to add this to the plugin so that it finds persons alive at this date who have not had data entered ?

(2) Interestingly I have found so many errors in the transcription it is unbelievable.
eg
BROADBANK Household (6 people)
then all of persons show the name of BROODBANK ?? no consistency !!
This has happened with many names ..no wonder it is difficult to search.
I pointed out half a street was misnamed. The odd numbered side was correct the even side misnamed. They wanted me to be specific and I pointed out my own family with date of births on the even numbered side. Also such a named road did not exist in the UK. They only altered my own entry and left the rest of the street wrongly named ??
There now appear to be many handwriitten entries over the top of the original entries ..some in blue writing some in green with abbreviated letters added ..obviously some late found amendments. Useful if they said what these abbreviations are for ?

[tatewise]

@Brian: When migrating AS please use the ancestralsources:ancestral_sources_migration_guide|> Ancestral Sources Migration Guide.

@John: (1) The Lookup Missing Census Facts Plugin Version 3.9 should handle the 1939 Register in the same way as all other Census Events, or perhaps you are talking about the FHUG Download Queries.

I presume you updated the Property Box custom Census tab to add extra fields using the [year=1939] index? I plan to add that to the FHUG Downloads.