* From TNG > FH5 > TNG

[kbella]

I have a website on TNG. It's pretty simple, just one tree, no branches, etc.

Having now started using Family Historian 5, I would like to import my TNG file for easier input of data and maintain it offline, and then upload the changes to TNG.

Can anyone tell me what is involved in doing this, any pitfalls I need to watch for, changes in database construction to make ahead of time, etc.?

Thank you.

[tatewise]

I believe exporting GEDCOM from TNG and importing into FH V5 is quite straightforward.
Other users of TNG will be able to comment.
In FH you would use File > Project Window > New Project > Import a GEDCOM File and may then need to make some corrections.
See how_to:index#importing_to_family_historian|> Importing to Family Historian general pages at the bottom.
You will only need to make this journey once if you retain FH as your master database.

To transfer back to TNG use the Plugin Export Gedcom to TNG and import the GECCOM into TNG.

[Jane]

If you don't want to edit data on TNG as well it's a simple task to run the converter for the media and upload the gedcom and media. If you want to edit in TNG, then you might want to decide how to work with group photographs as TNG does not support (I think still) the part photo selection provided by FH.

[kbella]

Thanks Mike & Jane.

Jane, can you tell me a bit more about the photographs, converting the media, and the different ways I need to consider?

Yes, I want to maintain the ability to edit in TNG.

Cheers

[tatewise]

Here is an extract from the advice in the Export Gedcom to TNG Plugin:

1. Remember to set 'CENS' tag to 'Accept' in order for TNG to accept Census Events.
2. Create custom '_USED' tag in order for TNG to accept the Given Name Used field.
3. Create custom '_FLGS' tag so TNG imports 'Living' & 'Private' flags, but only one is recognised per Individual.
4. Remember each Family Historian Custom Attribute will need a matching TNG Custom Event tag.
5. To keep Media Link to Face Frames, use Convert File Links Plugin, and run this plugin on final GEDCOM file.

This last item is related to Jane's comments. FH allows media such as Group Photos to have small frames superimposed so the faces of individuals can be used as images in their own right without having to crop several images from the Group Photo. The Convert File Links Plugin automatically performs that cropping process so that TNG imports individual media for each face. However, if you then transfer the TNG media & records back to FH they will obliterate the Group Photo face frames.

The first four items relate to differences in the GEDCOM tags used by TNG and FH. The Plugin automatically handles differences in the tags using the following translations:
FH tag => TNG tag
1 _UID => deleted as TNG does not support FH custom UID Tag
1 _LIST => deleted as TNG does not support FH custom Named Lists
1 _ROOT => deleted as TNG does not support FH custom File Root Tag
2 _SENT => deleted as TNG does not support FH custom Sentences
1 _ATTR => 1 EVEN
2 _USED => 1 _USED
2 NICK => 1 _NICK
1 _EMAIL => 2 EMAIL
1 _WEB => 2 WWW
1 PHON => 2 PHON
2 _EMAIL => 3 EMAIL
2 _WEB => 3 WWW
2 PHON => 3 PHON
When transferring back from TNG to FH all the above translations will be required in reverse, perhaps using a Plugin.
Also the tags not supported by TNG would be obliterated, so Named Lists and custom Sentences would vanish.
A possible workaround for that may be to import from TNG into a new FH Project, and then File > Merge this Project with your FH master Project. However, this could be a tedious manual process if there are many changes, including Group Photo face frames.

This is only a brief summary of the differences, and there may be more that you will discover along the way.

[kbella]

Thanks Mike. I am trying to gather information from the TNG side, as well. It seems quite complicated at the moment!

[tatewise]

Yes, unfortunately the GEDCOM Specification allows custom tags; the ones that start with an underscore (_).
So when importing & exporting GEDCOM files it is mostly custom tags that are the challenge, as you can see from my list.
BTW: The Group Photo face frames are also defined using FH custom tags, that TNG does not recognise.

Also it is quite common for the GEDCOM Specification to be incorrectly or incompletely implemented by different genealogy software. That is why the digit in front of the valid PHON tags has to change, since TNG has implemented the level digit incorrectly.

So migrating in one direction from say TNG to FH involves adjusting those GEDCOM incompatibilities, but only has to be done once.

Even transferring GEDCOM back from say FH to TNG is not too difficult if compromises are tolerated and some data discarded. The proviso is that one (FH in this example) must be deemed to hold the master database where edits are performed, and the other (TNG in this example) is only a slave database where NO edits are performed.

However, migrating backwards and forwards, without losing data in the process, as you want to do in order to perform edits in both, is much more complex. Essentially it means working within the set of GEDCOM features that are shared by both FH and TNG, after allowing perhaps for some very basic GEDCOM tag translations.

[kbella]

Thanks again, Mike. You have given me even more information (I didn't know about the underscore).
I'm beginning to think the better way forward would be to just maintain the database in FH and upload at intervals to TNG, as I want to make use of the options in FH.

[Jane]

think the better way forward would be to just maintain the database in FH and upload at intervals to TNG, as I want to make use of the options in FH.

That's the way I do it, trying to maintain a database in two places with two different programs is always quite tricky.

[tatewise]

I agree, and know that several FH users employ the Convert File Links Plugin followed by the Export Gedcom to TNG Plugin to routinely upload to TNG at intervals.

When you come to run the Export Gedcom to TNG Plugin you will discover a couple of other features that differ between FH & TNG.

The language setting in TNG determines what characters it accepts; either the default ISO-8859-1 or alternative UTF-8. The latter is best because it supports all possible characters, whereas the default is a restricted subset that does not recognise all the characters currently supported and exported by FH. The Plugin caters for both options.

Secondly, TNG displays Dates exactly as they appear in the GEDCOM DATE tags, which FH always exports in UPPER-CASE, whereas FH has a range of Date display formats. The Plugin allows the DATE tags to be converted to Title case so DATE FROM JAN 1900 becomes DATE From Jan 1900.

[kbella]

Thanks again to you both. When Jamboree is over, I will be giving this a try.

Kahtleen

[kbella]

OK, I've had a first try at importing my gedcom from TNG and it resulted in a LOT of lost data. Do I have to fix this manually or is there a setting I missed somewhere. The "validation" process only came up with 6 errors, so that was easily handled.

Here are a couple of samples from the Exception File:

Record Type=Individual. Gedcom Id=I96. Record Number=35.
l.852 - EXCLUDED: invalid line : "Chivers Julia, Clutton 11 96"
l.853 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "1 DEAT "
l.854 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 DATE 03 NOV 1926"
l.855 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 PLAC 250 William St., Pittston, Luzerne Co., Pennsylvania"
l.856 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S280@"
l.857 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S480@"
l.858 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "1 BURI "
l.859 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 DATE 06 NOV 1926"
l.860 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 PLAC Pittston City Cemetery, Pittston, Luzerne Co., Pennsylvania, United States"
l.861 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S260@"
l.862 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S280@"
l.863 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S402@"
l.864 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "3 PAGE Memory, Julia E, 6 Nov 1926, No. 4179"
l.865 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "2 SOUR @S480@"


Record Type=Individual. Gedcom Id=I179. Record Number=45.
l.1026 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT "
l.1027 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT "
l.1028 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT Public Record Office of Northern Ireland"
l.1029 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_th ... endars.htm"
l.1030 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT "
l.1031 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 CONT Index to wills proved in the District Probate Registries of Armagh, Belfast and Londonderry from 1858 to c.1900."

Record Type=Individual. Gedcom Id=I180. Record Number=46.
l.1055 - EXCLUDED: invalid line : "Surname: McElrea "
l.1056 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Date Of Death: 01/11/1903 "
l.1057 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Date Of Grant: 25/05/1904 "
l.1058 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Effects: Effects £138 "
l.1059 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Registry: Londonderry "
l.1060 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Full Abstract:"
l.1061 - EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE: : "Probate of the Will of Rosabel M'Elrea late of Dunmullan County Tyrone Widow who died 1 November 1903 granted at Londonderry to The Reverend gerald J.K. Moriarty Rector and Robert J. Creery Clerk"

[tatewise]

They all look as if they may be CONTinuation long lines that have been wrongly interpreted.

Please check you have the latest V5.0.9 of FH by using its Help > About Family Historian display.
You can update by using the Help > Check for Updates command.
Alternatively, download & install from fhugdownloads:contents:family_historian_5.x.y_upgrade|> Family Historian Version 5.0.9 Upgrade.

I presume you used File > Project Window and the New Project button, and selected Import a GEDCOM file. The dialogue is uncomplicated, but in the Check for word-wrapping errors window, ensure you select the correct option, as this deals with CONTinuation lines.

Don't worry about Report Lines : INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): as these can be fixed later.
See how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Unrecognised Data Fields.

[kbella]

Thanks. One of the problems was I (stupidly) just opened the gedcom instead of creating a new project. So I didn't get the error messages this time, but I am still missing a lot of data.

For instance, in my sample above, at the bottom, you see the information on the will of Rosabel M'Elrea? None of the details made it to the new project. In addition, her burial information is missing, as well as a residence that was entered for her at a different time. I've checked the source record and all the facts, notes, anyplace I thought it might end up, but I can't find it. I also ran "validate" on the file and no errors were found.

Now I am more worried than before because I don't have a clue to what's missing or needs repairing, etc.

Suggestions please, anyone, before I have a meltdown?

[Valkrider]

Kathleen

If you want to email me (you know my email address ) the Gedcom I will take a look at it and see if there is anything wrong with it that TNG has created and if it can be tweaked to import cleanly.

[tatewise]

Kathleen, when you originally opened the GEDCOM and got the Error Report did you then Save the GEDCOM?
If so, then all the EXCLUDED lines have been deleted.
This would explain why the New Project did not report any errors.
Sending this GEDCOM to Colin won't help, because all the erroneous lines have been deleted.

Did you keep the original TNG exported GEDCOM?
If not, then you will need to export it again.

Colin, do you know any 'tricks' to export TNG GEDCOM 5.5 correctly?

[kbella]

Thanks, Mike. Originally, I saved two copies of the gedcom (just in case!), so the one I "opened" in error was not the same one I created a new project with. When I had so many problems, I downloaded a fresh gedcom from TNG and started over. I checked back and forth between what I had on my TNG website and what came with the gedcom and it seems there are items missing. Since TNG has a simple Export command (no options), I don't know why those facts are being left out. I've only checked the one record so far. Perhaps there are changes I need to make in TNG before I do the transfer to FH. I will send the file to Colin and see what he thinks.

[tatewise]

Did you check you have the latest V5.0.9 of FH?

I wonder if the New Project option handles errors better than directly opening a GEDCOM file.
It is quite common for malformed GEDCOM data to be either placed in Note fields or Uncategorised Data Fields (UDF).

Where you have suspect/missing data, check the nearby Note fields.
Also use Tools > Find Uncategorised Data to list UDF.
See how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Unrecognised Data Fields for more advice.

[kbella]

Yes, I did check the version straight off - I forgot to mention that. Thanks for the other tips, I will have a look.

[Valkrider]

Mike

No I don't know any tricks about importing the TNG Gedcom unfortunately.

Kathleen has sent me the Gedcom and I have had a quick look at it. TNG is not exporting a compliant Gedcom which is the main issue. It is splitting some of her note fields and data fields incorrectly and it is also exporting non-standard fields incorrectly.

I am going to go through it in detail later and will prepare the detail for Kathleen to send to the TNG author. To me it appears to be a TNG failure not a FH issue. I suspect I can easily edit the Gedcom so that all the data imports cleanly into FH.

If I document this maybe you could knock up a plugin until the TNG people sort it?

[tatewise]

Colin, I can probably do something ~ either a Plugin or KB notes.
Please retain the original GEDCOM and either E-mail snippets to me or post them here in the Forum as examples of the problems.
Then I can check the Plugin against them and you can test it too.

[kbella]

Thanks to you both for tackling this problem. I will also post this on the forum at TNG and see if there is anything in my setup that could possibly contribute to the problem.

[Valkrider]

Kathleen & Mike

I finally managed to get to this today.

One of the most common errors is around PAGE this is an example of several problems in this area in the Gedcom

Code: Select all

3 PAGE SL# 1276722; 
#163842, Clerk of the Orphan's Court, Philadelphia, PA

It splits the entry over two or more lines without CONC or CONT. I haven't been able to track down why it isn't always on a ; some new lines start with a # and others with just a letter so there is no common cause that I could spot.

FH doesn't know what to do with the following custom tags

Code: Select all

2 _PRIM Y
2 _TYPE PHOTO
2 _TYPE HEADSTONE
2 _TYPE HISTORY
2 _TYPE MILITARY

Another big problem is with mapping see below

Code: Select all

0 _PLAC Windsor, Maine, U. S. A.
1 MAP
2 LATI 44.3106263
2 LONG -69.580599
2 ZOOM 12
2 PLEV 3

Again a custom tag that FH doesn't know what to do with.

Hope this helps.

[tatewise]

The PAGE (Where within Source) problem cannot be solved with CONC or CONT because they are not allowed in that field, which has maximum size of 248 characters.
My experiments suggest they give rise to the sort of EXCLUDED BRANCH LINE error in Kathleen's reports.
Perhaps Kathleen has entered newline characters into that field in FTM although not allowed.

The other cases you mention should simply result in UDF fields that can be dealt with later.

A Plugin to fix such PAGE field problems should be easy, give me a while.

[tatewise]

Try the attached Plugin to fix the PAGE and similar problems, just single-click it to install into FH.

BEWARE: It writes back over the chosen GEDCOM file, so always work on a COPY ! ! ! ! !

It replaces each misplaced newline character with " ~ " to join the multiple lines into a single line.

The UDF can then be fixed using how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Unrecognised Data Fields.