* Repositioning boxes in diagrams

[Chris Lally]

I am trying to overlay ancestors onto a main descendants diagram so that I can show ancestors for persons not in the direct line. I've managed that but wish to move boxes to create a better arrangement. Typically I want to widen the gap between two siblings to be able to insert the overlay and not clash with other boxes.

I've enabled "moving/resizing" and worked out how most of that works, so I can move entire trees, shift boxes within a row and so on, but I want to shift boxes within a column ... and it just doesn't seem to do that.

Any thoughts?

[tatewise]

I know you mentioned a Descendants Diagram, but first of all Chris you may find that an All Relatives Diagram includes more branches in your main tree if you choose the 'root' Family Couple appropriately.
See how_to:view_both_spouses_ancestors|> View Both Spouses’ Ancestors.

I suspect you are wanting to move branches of the main tree handled by the Box & Bar options.
(But it would help us to help you if you used more explicit command descriptions.)

The Box & Bar movements can be difficult to control if all the 'handles' are not visible.
You need to click on any 'handle' that is visible and drag until all three appear as shown below.
Alternatively, you may find the Fixed Point option does what you want?

ChartBlankRow.png (78.38 KiB) Viewed 6385 times

[Chris Lally]

That's great, thanks Mike. I just couldn't work out the relationship of the different functions but I've now managed to do what I wanted. I needed to understand what "fixed point" did.

I'm also trying to colour code different parts of the tree to show different families. Using "format" I've been able to have 3 different box outline colours but the linking line colour seems to want to be "global" ... so when I change to blue lines on an added ancestor tree the whole chart changes to blue lines. Can this be specified too? I've only found one place to change line colour.

I've successfully published the other side of our family trees but that is all one colour and a much simpler top down structure, mine has different trees feeding into each other. I was almost resorting to Photoshop again but that's very tedious and makes future editions hard work.

[tatewise]

You said: "I've successfully published the other side of our family trees", which implies Ancestor Diagrams, but your original posting mentioned Descendant Diagrams, so I am puzzled.

I you really do mean Ancestor Diagrams, then as I said before, an All Relatives Diagram may be a better option to reduce the need for inserted branches.

You can NOT use Diagram Options > Boxes Features to alter connecting lines.

However Diagram > Family Connection Mapper may do the job, by selecting the members of a Family and assigning a Route colour.

[Chris Lally]

Sorry, I mean I've completed the diagram for my wife's family tree, but I keep my tree as a separate project. Her tree has been sorted and the diagram image has been uploaded to our website.

I'll try the family connection manager which sounds like it might do the job on line colours (I'm on the wrong computer at the moment).

My main tree is great-grandparents on the father's side down, but there are two places where I want to add ancestors, one of which is to add parents and gps to my mother's box. I have tried "all relatives" before but I'll have another try.

Thanks again for the help, I'll let you know how I get on.

[tatewise]

As before, I don't understand how "great-grandparents on the father's side down" is achieved using Descendant Diagrams without a great deal of difficulty (as you seem to be suggesting). An Ancestor or All Relatives Diagram should be much easier.

Have a look at how_to:view_both_spouses_ancestors|> View Both Spouses’ Ancestors that is a common stumbling block, and use that to select your Mother & Father for an All Relatives Diagram.

That should include all your four grandparents and all their direct ancestors, plus all descendants of any of them.

You can restrict how many generations shown in Diagram Options > Generations Up/Down.

It is also easier to hide branches you don't want, than it is to add missing branches.

[Chris Lally]

With apologies, I'm probably just not explaining the issue properly. Thanks to your advice I've finally got to grips with moving boxes, lines and the various formatting options. I am now able to produce the "snapshots" for our website and I've worked out the effects of scaling, margins, page breaks and so on so I can now print successfully.

I've tried the 3 methods of "View Both Spouses' Ancestors" … and I can only get the last method to work.

I agree that displaying "All Relatives" and hiding branches is easier than trying to add various ancestors. Also selecting a root one generation further down and using "Ancestors and Descendants" works as it lists parents on both sides in earlier generations.

But I am still struggling with two things:

1. Ancestors of someone not in the direct line don't appear. So in this example grandfather's ancestors show, but not grandmother's (in pink). I've had to insert Charlotte Hughes ancestors. Whatever I do I end up with a separate tree with or without a linking line depending on duplicate checking.

Example 1.jpg (130.09 KiB) Viewed 6299 times

So far the only way I've been able to produce what I want is to overlay the two trees, thus;

Example 2.jpg (89 KiB) Viewed 6299 times

2. What's the best way to display of ancestors and relatives not in the direct line. For example; man has children by first marriage, wife dies. The man re-marries into this family and children become step-children of wife no.2 who is a direct relative. But, 1st wife and children are not direct relatives so do not display.

If I use diagrams showing "everyone" I get multiple boxes for the same people, so I've tackled this by adding a diagram showing relatives of the husband and editing/overlaying the tree as above, but it's a real fiddle. Also all of this is ok until you start scaling for printing when boxes can adjust themselves out of alignment.

[tatewise]

1. Can you give more details of why only the last method of selecting both spouses works for you.
   The tree produced for one method is exactly the same as for the other two.
2. Yes, selecting a root couple in later generations will include more Ancestors.
3. The main difference between Ancestors & Descendants and All Relatives is that the latter includes "cousin" Descendant branches from Ancestors.
   In other words it includes Descendant branches from all your Ancestors siblings.
4. If Charlotte Hughes is your direct Grandmother and the root couple is among her Descendants, then Charlotte's parents will be automatically included in the Diagram.
   Please clarify the type of Diagram and where the root couple is.
   Are you sure you have not accidentally hidden her parents - use Diagram > Hide/Show Boxes > Show Hidden Boxes.
5. It is an ongoing snag that Ancestors of indirect Spouses are not shown.
   It only applies if someone marries more than once, then only the direct Ancestors are shown, and Ancestors of the other Spouse(s) are not.
   There is a Wish List Ref 501 Entire Pool Diagram that you can vote for that would fix that problem, but don't expect any quick fix soon.
   The only solution is to Insert trees, which as you now know is not ideal, and your illustrations above are typical results.

[Chris Lally]

Thank you Mike, I've not got much time to play with this over the next few days but I'll report back eventually, I'll work through items 1 to 4 and let you know.

I thought item 5 might be an issue because of the relationships. I did wonder about trying to create "step child" records to try and cross link them, I've not succeeded yet. At least I know I'm doing it the "right" way and there isn't an easier method.

The good thing is that the boxes stay attached to the data despite the various layers so at least once set up it doesn't need to be continually re-created. I also don't need to do much to the png file before uploading it to the web and pdf files are easy.

The wish list reminds me of the old systems I used to work with!

Thanks again.

[tatewise]

If I understand your step-child concept correctly, then it will not help add more Ancestors to the tree, nor will any other method, otherwise we would have advised to use that other method.