* Question re facts and more specifically, events and attributes

[bubbalicious]

No doubt by now you know I'm a new user of FH6, coming from RM7.

Yes, I've read and have screen-shotted the KB article about Events and Attributes for future reference (in addition to my v6 book), but I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the umbrella term of "fact" and it being broken down into an "event or attribute." I see why a birth, death, etc., is an "event," but in my head I am still thinking of it as a fact because after all, it is a fact that somebody was born or died.

Can I still think of things like an occupation as a fact and not an attribute? In the end, does it really matter? In my way of thinking, an occupation, for example, is a fact, i.e., it's a fact that he worked as a blah blah for x number of years. An attribute, in my mind, would be applicable to something like a WWI or WWII draft registration card wherein physical attributes like height, weight, complexion, eye color and any disability would be on the card.

Also, if I keep thinking in terms of "facts," is there any downside to that, and what, if any, ramifications are there?

I'm not changing/adding any data in my newly imported file, as I have UDF's to fix (if needed) first, but this question kept nagging at me this morning and I had to ask.

Thanks for clarification.

Nikki

[ColeValleyGirl]

I think of them all as Facts.

However, some Facts correspond to events that happened to a person (Events).

And some facts are more about something a person was/something that describes them (Attributes).

So somebody being born is a Fact, but it's more specifically an Event because it happened to them.

And somebody having blue eyes is a Fact, but it's more specifically an Attribute because having blue eyes doesn't happen, but it does describe them.

Similarly Death, Marriage are Events, and Height, Religion are Attributes.

Another way of thinking of it is that an Attribute can (and usually does) have a Value as well as a date, place/address: Blue for eye color, Six feet for height, Buddhist for Religion) . But a Event can't have a Value, just a date and place/address.

With reference to the Draft Registration Card, strictly speaking that's a source (not a fact in itself) which potentially supports:

• One or more Events (when and where he was drafted, when and where he served)

• One or more Attributes (height, weight, complexion, disability etc.)

It can get a little more complicated than that -- some people define Military Service as an Attribute, for example, and include e.g. the Branch of the Service or the Service number as the Value. I define Military Service as an Event -- it's something that happened to them -- and have separate Attributes for Service Branch and Service Number.

[tatewise]

Everything Helen says is entirely accurate.
The term 'Facts' was coined by FH simply to avoid having to keep saying Events &/or Attributes.

The concepts stem from the formal GEDCOM specification.
That defines standard Events such as Census, Birth, Marriage & Death and standard Attributes such as Occupation, Education, Religion & Physical Description.
It also defines how custom facts can supplement those standard facts, and FH allows both custom Events and Attributes.

Because Events happen, they can only occur on one day expressed either as a single Date or a Date Range such as before or after one Date or between two Dates.

Whereas Attributes apply for some time expressed either as a single Date or a Date Period such as from one Date &/or to another Date. Also an Attribute can have a value to define exactly what it is, so for example an Occupation can have the value Agricultural Labourer.

[bubbalicious]

Thank you both for your answers! I was going to reply this morning but I've been busy *all* day off and on deleting _UID numbers which were output in the Unidentified Data References plug-in report. There's more stuff to look at from the report, but I started there.

At any rate, I do understand the "facts" and it being broken down into events and attributes. Being that I'm not going to be inputting data any time soon, I'm reading up in my book beforehand and also the KB articles before plunging into data entry. It's not rocket science, but I want to do it correctly in this program. If I have questions at that point, I'll let you know (don't do any betting that I won't, because you'll lose ).

I guess what can be kind of confusing is that coming from RM7, facts were facts. Period. There was no breaking them down into an event or attribute. And apparently, RM7 doesn't follow strict gedcom criteria, so here we are. Oh well.

Nikki

[Jane]

Just to check you had realised you can select the cells on the result set an press the delete key to remove them.

[tatewise]

Yes, how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Uncategorised Data Fields (UDF) explains how to delete UDF in bulk, where it says: "To delete UDF..."

Many products do not differentiate between Events and Attributes and all Facts are allowed to take a value.
It would be really useful if FH had an option to do likewise.

[E Wilcock]

After clearing my Occupation Events imported from TMG, I still have both Attribute and Event for some of my custom tags.
Not sure what harm is done by leaving them?
And religion is not an attribute by the way. People on my databases convert from one to another or underwent confirmation in another Christian denomination, often after marriage. Or switch sides in splits within religions.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Religion is an Attribute just as Occupation is an Attribute -- it may only apply for a specific period of time, but per se it isn't an Event IMO. (There might be a Conversion or Confirmation Event that marks the start/end of ther Attribute time period).

[tatewise]

Sorry Evelyn, but the standard GEDCOM fact Religion is definitely an Attribute.
It cannot be an Event because it does not happen on a specific date.
An Attribute does not have to last a lifetime, which is why multiple instances of an Attribute are quite common.
e.g.
Education, Occupation, Possessions, etc, are all Attributes that can occur several times per person and each one has a different value to define the Attribute and different Dates to define when that Attribute applies.

There is no great harm in having both Event and Attribute custom facts.
However, they will be considered as independent Facts in any statistics or searches.

[bubbalicious]

Boy, did I open up a hornet's nest on this subject, or what? I'm thankful for the clarifications and other input, though.

And now for another question: since everything came in as a "fact" from RM7, do I have to do anything with them such as change something that should be an event or an attribute? I'm thinking I'll leave them as is, look at the gedcom exception report and make changes from that as needed, and from this point forward on inputting data I'll make the appropriate choice as to event or attribute.

Nikki