* Sources and Citations

[ricklach]

I have tried to read all of the FH articles I can find on the subject but I will admit that I am having trouble wrapping my head around Automatic Source Citations in FH and the way they are implemented. Just when I think I have it I become ever more confused. Here is the scenario: I have a large collection of documents and photos that are related to a family name - the Smith Collection, for example. That source - called: Smith Collection, contains all the documents and photos that are germane to the family. They are also a subset of the repository I have recorded as the "Jones Collection," there being multiple subsets within that repository. I have entered the relevant data into the source and repository screens.

When I want to work on the Smith family, I enable the Smith Collection as the source in the automatic source citations. That is the point where confusion sets in. Let's say I want to add a photograph to an individual's record. I want to associate the photo with the source using a specific citation. In brief, I am thinking source=Smith Collection, and citation = photo of Mary Smith. I know how to link the multimedia object to the source but I don't understand how to add the citation "photo of Mary Smith." I think I understand how to do it with a "fact" because in that case you can enter a citation. I have found the citation model more than a bit confusing in FH and could use some guidance on this issue.

[tatewise]

I can see where you are coming from, but that scheme does not work well with the Gedcom/FH concept of Sources and Citations especially for citing Media like that.

I suspect the crux of the problem is the concept of a Smith Collection as a Source containing a variety of documents & photos that are only related by their association with the Smith family name.
BTW: The Automatic Source Citations feature is only a convenience and does not affect the underlying concepts, and we can return to that later.

1) Source Citation Structure

Let's first review how Source Citations are structured.
Mostly, Source Citations are added to the Facts, or Name, or <whole record> of an Individual.
To perform the latter, in yellow Sources for pane, select <whole record> from drop-list at the top.

What you are adding is a Citation structure coupled to a Fact, or Name, or <whole record>.
That structure holds the fields in the yellow Sources for pane, including the link to the Source Record at the top.
Each Citation only links to one Source Record, but each Source Record can be coupled to many Citations.
Media can be attached to Citations, and also Media can be attached to Source Records.

A Citation can only cite a whole Source Record, but its Where within Source field can identify some part of that Source.

So when you say "citation = photo of Mary Smith" do you mean the Where within Source field identifies the photo of Mary Smith, or do you mean the photo of Mary Smith is attached as Media to the Citation?

2) Source Citations in Reports

Consider a Report for Mary Smith with a Source Citation of the Smith Collection.

Optionally the Report can exclude all Source Citations so the Smith Collection and Photo of Mary Smith will not be mentioned.

If Source Citations are included, then the entire Smith Collection will appear in the Report with the first 'n' Media images as specified by the Report Options > Sources tab, where 'n' can be 0.
By default that will include the Where within Source field of each Citation.
If the Smith Collection is cited more than once by Mary Smith, there will be replication of some details and Media.
If the photo of Mary Smith is attached as Media to the Citation then that can be included with the Citation.

3) Conventional Approach

A personal photo is not usually treated as a Source, but is added directly to the Media tab of the Individual such that it appears in the Focus Window, Diagrams, and Reports closely associated with that person.

Source Method 1
Documents such as BMD Certificates are treated as Sources with one Document per Source Record.
The document image is attached to the Media tab of the Source Record with a transcript in the Text From Source field.
Then each Fact or Individual derived from that Source will cite that Source, but the Citation fields will typically be empty.

Source Method 2
Classes of documents such as all Birth Certificates will have one Source Record but with no Media nor Text From Source.
Each Citation will have its own attached Media for one Birth Certificate image, and a transcript in its Text From Source field (which is distinct from the synonymous field in the Source Record).

There are various ways that an associated set of Source Records or Media could be identified as members of the Smith Collection &/or the Jones Collection.

[ricklach]

Thanks Mike for that very thorough explanation. As a recent TMG user I have high expectations for a TMG replacement program. Initially I though FH might be that replacement but there are some shortfalls, citations being one of them, that just don't meet my expectations. So I have decided to revert back to RM7 in the interim to see if something approaching the quality of TMG comes along. I appreciate your assistance despite my decision.

[tatewise]

I am sorry FH does not meet your expectations, and hope you find success elsewhere.
But if not then please return.

In the meantime, do any ex-TMG users understand Rick's dilemma and offer a solution?

[AdrianBruce]

(Takes deep breath as I'm no ex-TMG user)
Doesn't Rick's basic problem above start with the point that FH has no way to record a citation for an image?

I have several photos that I have downloaded from Ancestry trees - at the moment, I record their provenance (to use the art world's term?) as a note against the media item. It would be nice to record the Ancestry tree on a source record and just use the equivalent of the yellow sources-pane to record where the image came from.

The next part would then be to ensure that the "citation" appears where-ever the photo appears in reports - as part of the caption. And even with the note against the media item, we know that there is no way in FH to make that note appear as part of the caption, it has to be copied into the "Link to person" note and marked to be used as a caption.

I could be wrong but that seems like the helicopter view.

[tatewise]

An explanation (not an excuse) why Media cannot have a Source Citation is that it is not defined in Gedcom.
BTW: Even all the currently allowed positions for Source Citations are not included in Reports.
See Wish List Ref 432 Source for notes included in reports.
You can indirectly add a Source Citation to Media via the Link/Note you mentioned, but it does not appear in Reports.
By inference you should be able to add a Source Citation to Media via the main Note but that is a custom (_NOTE) field and FH has not propagated the Source Citation ability that applies to EVERY other Note field throughout the record structures.

But I do not believe that is Rick's difficulty, because he wants one Source Record with a multitude of Media images, but be able to cite each Media image independently.

I don't recall coming across either of the above features in any genealogy product (including RootsMagic7), which is why I'm interested in hearing from TMG migrants who may be able to throw some light onto the topic. I don't think TMG supports the technique described by Rick, because the direct TMG Project Import does not appear to cater for it, and if it was popular the TMG migrants would have clamoured for it.

[AdrianBruce]

... he wants one Source Record with a multitude of Media images, but be able to cite each Media image independently...

Is this perhaps reminiscent of (but may not be quite the same as) the idea of Master-Source and Source a.k.a. Source and Source-Detail being two separate entities in RM etc, which map over to just Source-Record in GEDCOM?? (The only sensible way that I've seen this terminology resolved is to discard the Master-Source and Source names and use the real-world concepts of Collection and Source instead. Which came up some time ago on the Forum.)

I never quite figured the Master-Source and Source business out in Roots Magic Essentials since the way that I had it structured in my mind, didn't seem to be possible in RME because bits of the functionality are locked off in the free version (not unreasonably!!)

I'm only saying this in the hope that some more familiar with RM / TMG may have their memories triggered in the way that you want...

[E Wilcock]

I am a TMG user -not particularly expert at adding images. I havent done much with images in TMG and dont know what happens in FH.

However, I have many old family photographs as well as images of sources and have form time to time considered adding them and or linking them to trees. One benefit of moving to FH would be to add the source images. I havent much idea of how this is done, nor where the Source and Citation system in FH differs from that in TMG.

Where photos of people are concerned, to date I have handled images as events in TMG. That is, a group photograph taken at a wedding or a regimental reunion can be entered with a date and one can attach the details of its whereabouts and provenances as a source to the photo event. The people shown in the picture can be listed as "witnesses" or the picture event can be copied to each of the people shown.

If a photo was taken when a child was 6 months old once can date it roughly and enter it as an event with the name and address of the photographer. However, I have not done this.

I keep lists of historic family photos in Word documents. One Word document per Family. In that document I list the albums. I give each album a number and then paginate the albums (in pencil). I give the provenance of each album, describe it and list the photos in it page by page giving the identity of the sitter where known.
I then photograph the outside of the album and all the pages and photos in it, and name the image files with the volume and page number. I do the same with any loose photos. I enter the identity of the sitter where known in the information attached to the image file and or in a caption.
I have a separate folder with pictures of places associated with the family. One can attach these to an event Tag. e.g. marriage or residence. Any info about the date of the picture and the photographer - usually myself or my father - will be in the image information.

I also paginated my father's numerous genealogy research files and give the location in those files of any pictures and certificates as part of my source citation. That is, I give the source as my father's research and give the file number and page number as the citation for the certificate of which I have the image. I realise of course that the source is the certificate itself (not the file).

My father made countless lists of what he had and I have simply done the same. Word lists are easy for people (my heirs) to look at and to search and they serve as an index to hand written research files. When I photograph pages from my father's files which I have done to make them available to other family members, - I do the same as with photos and name the image files according to the file number and page.

None of this is very professional and I havent yet moved either to Roots Magic or to FH.

Any explanations of how FH users deal with a large archive of historic family photographs would be helpful to me.

Or is the difficulty over citations?

Is the difficulty that the term citation in FH means the link between a fact and the source? Whereas in TMG the citation may be a link to the particular information within a larger source? I seem to remember that this option is available in FH - that one has a choice of how to enter sources?

I myself have used the citation field in TMG to paste in extensive text transcriptions, e.g. from newspapers. The source would be the newspaper title. The repository would be the website or local archive where I had seen the newspaper. The citation would give date and page number and any text that I wanted to enter.

[tatewise]

Without dealing with each of your examples, the first advice is to study the book: "Getting the Most From Family Historian" and the Family Historian Sample Project to become familiar with Sources, Citations and Media.

Also Ancestral Sources simplifies entering Source Citations.

There are differences compared to TMG, but that is true of most genealogy products.

Without a clearer understanding of what FH can do, it is difficult to discuss detailed options.

[AdrianBruce]

the term citation in FH means the link between a fact and the source? Whereas in TMG the citation may be a link to the particular information within a larger source?

I believe that this is pretty much true, though how much it affects you, whether or not it causes a problem, is not something I would care to comment on without working through specific detail. But if it helps.....

FH follows the GEDCOM structure of fact / citation / source-record (over-simplifying)
But my understanding is that a number of applications such as RootsMagic and TMG use fact / something-that-may-or-may-not-be-called-citation / detail-source / master-source.

This allows the users of the latter systems, to have (say) a detail-source of a census-schedule for the Bloggs family in the 1851 English census and a master-source for the 1851 English census. In the real world, archivists would look at you as if you'd gone mad if you talked of master-sources. They would, however, understand if you talked about collections, which I suspect is what master-sources really are.

Now, it may be that keeping it simple is all that you need and you don't need to worry about the differences between FH and TMG for what you want to do - but I would suggest that you take Mike's advice and read up on FH first.

[E Wilcock]

I have indeed bought and read the book.

I posted a reply because users of TMG were invited to post their own experience and comments.

[E Wilcock]

I think it also worth observing that there appears to be a cultural divide between British and United States citation of genealogical sources.
Many genealogist in USA rely on the books by Elizabeth Shown Mills on Citing Your Sources which provide a detailed template for an ever increasing number of source types.

It would seem that the exams taken to qualify as a professional genealogist in the USA might entail adhering to the Mills standard.

However, academic historians in the USA follow a different system for citing sources. - One of the best known is the Chicago Manual of Style. There is a wide choice since each academic journal stipulates the particular format in which references must be cited in articles submitted for publication. Bibliography software (including the free software Zotero) includes a long list of the necessary templates.

Scientific publications have had a different system and modern academic history - the most recent books I have read - seem to have swung towards the scientific style. There is a detailed bibliography of the books cited, listed in alphabetical order of author. There then follow the Notes, containing an abbreviation for each title, the page references within the source, and any notes.

Although this may not fit with GEDCOM provision, it does resemble the two level Source and Citation system which is provided for (but not compulsory) in TMG.

Some leading users of TMG, have chosen not to adopt the USA template system but to cite almost all sources in the form of a printed book and I have done the same.

In TMG it is possible to create a new project, which is empty of people, but which retains all the source entries from an existing project. For those of us who use multiple separate projects this is a great time saver as our standard source entries do not need to be typed out again and again each time we start work on a new family.

In FH one can copy and rename a project but I cant see a way of deleting all the people in it. And the sources and citation detail within that source seem to constitute a single record. I began a new project in FH to familiarise myself with the program and had to enter all the normal UK sources from scratch.

Please note that I have owned FH almost from its launch and have also bought Rootsmagic. I am not running down FH. I find it useful to have some detailed discussion with knowledgeable FH users on this board of the ways in which FH might be different for users who arrive from TMG.

[David Potter]

Hi
I'm not able to offer expert opinion - but I do have TMG9.5 still running whilst I migrate to FH6.2.2. As I see it the Master Source List in TMG very closely resembles the Fact Types in FH.

I am making good use of Ancestral Sources (AS) to create my new FH database using Source Method 1. This creates a unique source per event. Example: The Source Title contains, Baptism, Place, Date, and Individual. This source is then automatically Cited to all who were involved in that Event as reported to AS. See screen shot.

I did try RM7 and FTM before deciding on FH. Both had problems importing TMG data and many records were rejected along the way.

I just wish I had found FH like 10 years ago. TMG is good but FH is far superior.

BR

David

[tatewise]

@ E Wilcock - I do not understand the statement "And the sources and citation detail within that source seem to constitute a single record."
Following the GEDCOM schema, that is adopted by many genealogy products, there are 9 (or more ) record types: Individual, Family, Note, Source, Repository, Submitter, Submission, Multimedia, Header, and FH V6 adds Places. They can all be viewed as independent records via the Records Window, but as advised in how_to:key_features_for_newcomers|> Key Features for Newcomers you may need to use Tools > Preferences > Records Window > Record Type Display Options and set each to Always show so that their is a tab for each Record Type. The Sources tab lists all the Source Records. Have you investigated there?

To delete Individuals and retain Sources you can use File > Split Tree Helper in a copied Project, or use File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File as a forerunner to creating a new Project. The other Record Types can be included or excluded, so if required just Source Records and associated Repository and Multimedia records can be retained. See how_to:exporting_gedcom_with_multimedia|> Exporting a Family Tree with Multimedia, which explains the general process, but does not specifically say how to only export Sources. However, a little experimentation should prove fruitful. The question has been asked before and I found it quite straightforward.

I have come across bibliography schemes such as the Chicago Manual of Style, but they seem to be more applicable to citing published reference books & journals with authors, publishers, titles and chapters, rather than genealogy documents such as a single Birth/Marriage/Death Certificate. Also they often require specific font styles for various parts of the Citation, and FH is particularly weak at supporting such font styles.

I believe some FH users have adopted & adapted the Elizabeth Shown Mills method, and they may chime into this thread. Perhaps a Knowledge Base article on the subject would be of interest? If you do a global Forum Search for Elizabeth Shown Mills you will discover many threads on the subject.