* Given Name or Surname not updating

[Terrygallacher]

I changed someone's name in the focus window on FH V5, but the Given Name and Surname fileds were not updated. Is this usual or is it a bug?

[susanpenter]

Hi Terry,

I'm assuming when you say you changed it in the focus window are you taking about changing it in the side bar as you can't actually type onto the focus window. Once you had changed the name did you then click out of the box as this is the point that you will see the update made in the focus screen?

If I have misunderstood what you mean let me know.

[Terrygallacher]

Yes in the side area/properties, and yes I did click out of the box. I noticed the anomaly when exporting a Gedcom file to other applications. The full name is OK, but the separate Given Name and Surname fields don't reflect the name change.

[PeterR]

The GEDCOM 5.5 Standard recommends NOT using fields such as Surname and Given Name:

The name value is formed in the manner the name is normally spoken, with the given name and family name (surname) separated by slashes (/). (See <NAME_PERSONAL>.) Based on the dynamic nature or unknown compositions of naming conventions, it is difficult to provide more detailed name piece structure to handle every case. The NPFX, GIVN, NICK, SPFX, SURN, and NSFX tags are provided optionally for systems that cannot operate effectively with less structured information. For current future compatibility, all systems must construct their names based on the <NAME_PERSONAL> structure. Those using the optional name pieces should assume that few systems will process them, and most will not provide the name pieces.

There is no automatic updating of such fields by FH.

The <NAME_PERSONAL> structure is of course: Given-name(s) /Surname/

[tatewise]

The Given Name (GIVN) and Surname (SURN) subsidiary fields are not used by FH because those names are in the NAME field and would result in duplication.
e.g.
1 NAME John /Smith/
2 GIVN JOHN
2 SURN Smith

In fact many products do not support those two fields at all.

What product are you exporting to?

[Terrygallacher]

This is baffling. I haven't input the Given Name and Surname fields, they have somehow been generated, but not for all people.

[Terrygallacher]

I exported to Gedview (an iPad app) where the problem manifested itself. I tried the same file in Heredis and it was OK, so it looks like the two apps reference different name fields. I'll have to figure how to get Gedview to read the correct name field. Maybe the Export Gedcom plug-in has an option which I've missed.

[tatewise]

To see EXACTLY what name fields exist in FH, open the All tab of Property Box, and click on [+] next to Name field.

If there are Given Name and Surname fields that you have not entered then they can only have come from an import from another product? Is that possible?

The Export Gedcom File Plugin has a dedicated option for Heredis but not for Gedview.
However, there are no options to create Given Name nor Surname fields, only options to remove them for products that do not recognise them.

[PeterR]

I have used GedView and it works fine with an FH GEDCOM file, and has no need of a special Export. I never use the Given-Name and Surname fields in FH but it may be that GedView becomes confused if they are used, as well as the usual Name field (i.e. Given Name /Surname/) and there is a discrepancy.

[tatewise]

But Terry says he never input the Given Name and Surname fields, yet they appear in Gedview.
So I am guessing they have been imported into FH sometime in the past and will remain there unchanged even if the main Name field is changed.
That is why I advise Terry to check the All tab, and if necessary those Given Name and Surname fields should be bulk deleted.

[Terrygallacher]

Thankyou everyone for your input to this. I'll have to delete the fields, is there a way of batch/bulk deletion?
Thank you,
Terry

[tatewise]

Terry, it would be nice to know where you think they came from?!

To bulk delete them, create a custom Individual Query.
On the Columns tab add those two fields.
Then on the Result Set tab click on Given Name header to sort them together.
Now select them all and use Edit > Delete.
Repeat for Surname column.

[Terrygallacher]

I've been using FH for some years, it is quite probable I imported from a previous program, but I can't for the life of me remember. Must be an age thing!
Thanks for the info Tatewise.

[Terrygallacher]

A final follow-up, I ran the query spec'd by Tatewise, and having deleted the fields a quick export and import to Gedview had everyone's names correct. Thanks to all.