* Question on Facts imported from TMG

[Hnm]

Hello,
I am a new user, a refugee from TMG. I have tried reading much of the book, "Getting the most out of..." and am trying to play around with the program.

I have come up against a problem. My TMG direct import brought in a number of tags (to you "facts") that are hidden in the "Fact type" lists. For each of them the fact set is listed as <none>. Since it is undefined, when I try to edit the fact, it states as such and asks me if I want to define it. If I say yes and either make it a custom fact or say a TMG fact, I am told that the fact name is invalid because it has a hyphen in it. But in the create definition box, everything is grayed out except the fact set box. Any suggestions other than redoing every one of those facts manually?

I've looked at the "change any fact type" plugin, but since the facts are undefined, I don't think that will work.

Also, another question - If I look at the screen containing the facts for an individual person, and I click on one of those facts, is there any way to see what fact type it uses and can that fact type be changed?

Greatly appreciate any help you can give me.

[jbtapscott]

I spent quite a bit of time running "test" imports from my TMG file into FH before I made the final switch over (indeed, about three months!) During that time I identified issues like the ones you mention, so I went back in to TMG and made a change to the base data there (normally, modify the Tag Label) before trying the import again. It was time well spent, as after the "final" import I only had a small number of changes that I needed to make in FH.

[Hnm]

Thanks for replying so quickly, Brent. That sounds like a great idea and I am going to try that myself. Other than the tag labels, is there anything else you had to adjust?

I also noticed a couple of my tags did not come over at all and need to figure out why.

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

This is a continuation of Upgraded from TMG -need to fix witness sentences (13401).

When you get the message about the tag containing a hyphen, does that inhibit any further changes to the Fact Definition dialogue? If further changes are allowed then you can ignore the message. I suspect it is just a warning.

The Change Any Fact Tag Plugin will work for undefined facts. Just use the <Custom Fact> setting and the undefined TMG tags will be there.

[Hnm]

Thanks for helping Mike. Yes, it probably is a continuation and maybe I should have just followed that lead. Sorry!

When I get the message in regards to the hyphen it does not allow me to create a custom tag or do anything else. It just says that the hyphen is invalid. In the import, those hyphenated tags came across with the hyphen appearing in both the name and the label. Both areas are grayed out on the screen that is used for the creation of a fact definition set... and I can not go farther than that.

I will try to use the plugin with these tags and will let you know if it works. Brent's idea of going back to TMG and changing all my tags is a possibility.... but I was hoping I could fix things in FH.

Regards,,
Helen

[tatewise]

AH! I have experimented and see what you are experiencing, and found a workaround.

Use Tools > Fact Types and note the exact Name and Type of the <none> <undefined> facts with hyphens, and whether the bullet on the left is blue or red.

Click the New button and enter the Fact Name exactly as per the Name noted above but replacing each hyphen (-) with an underscore (_). You can also use lower-case letters in place of capitals if you wish.
Select the Fact Type of Event or Attribute to match the Type noted above.
If the bullet noted above was blue then leave Record Type as Individual, otherwise select Family.
Finally type in the Fact Set as TMG and click Create.

In the Fact Definition dialogue further customisation is possible but just click OK for now.

Repeat for each fact that has a hyphen (or any other symbol) in its name.

Those that do not have any symbol can use the Edit button instead as discussed earlier.

[Hnm]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to try and help me!

I understand exactly what I should do, but then what happens. How do I connect the existing fact to the new fact name? I have just created a new fact with the underscore, but when I try to use your wonderful plugin, "Change andy fact...", I cannot "see" my source fact as it is undefined (and as you see, I am unable to give it a definition).

Is there a way to see which fact type each individual fact it attached to? Is there a way to manually change each fact to a different fact type?

In working with facts, I have come across another problem too. I changed a custom address tag from TMG, to a fact labeled Address in FH. I have it as a "family" fact and planned to use it to hold correct addresses so I could make a mailing list. I have come across the problem that an unmarried individual cannot be part of a "family" fact. Is the only way to do this to make every family address linked to one individual and then manually link the other spouse?

Also, would you know if in version 6, the sample project no longer has the tutorials attached. I am trying to go through "Getting the most...." and it references tutorials for each chapter, but they do not seem to have come across in the download. I know the book is for version 5, and that may be why the tutorials are no longer available.....

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

If you create the Fact Definitions as explained, FH will automatically change your fact tags with hyphen to use underscore instead. So there is no need to use Change Any Fact Tag.

For Custom facts the Fact Types listing and the GEDCOM fact tag are the same, except that lower-case letters become capitals in GEDCOM.
So if the Fact Types Name is Birth_Witness the GEDCOM tag is BIRTH_WITNESS and the GEDCOM file will contain:
1 EVEN
2 TYPE BIRTH_WITNESS
In customisation Data Refs that you may need later on it will appear as EVEN-BIRTH_WITNESS.

All standard facts are predefined and their GEDCOM tags cannot be altered, so Birth is BIRT, Baptism is BAPM, Marriage is MARR, Death is DEAT, etc.

Individual facts are only added to the Individual record for each person.
Family facts are only added to the Family record that defines partner/parent/child relationships, and examples include Engagement, Marriage and Divorce. So if there is no Family record you cannot add any Family facts. BTW: The partners in a Family do NOT have to be Married.
See fhugdownloads:contents:fact_set_contact_info|> Fact Set ~ Contact Info for a way to create a contacts list.

The tutorials can be downloaded from the http://www.family-historian.co.uk/downl ... ad-archive or from how_to:family_historian_documentation|> Family Historian Documentation.

[Hnm]

Hi Mike,

Thanks again for everything.

I have found the tutorials and downloaded them so I am good to go. Also appreciate your help with the contact info... just what I was looking for.

One question, which also pertains to the first part of your response. I created a new underscored fact as you had suggested, but on my fact list, both the original undefined one and the new one appear. I have no idea if the facts attached to the old one have transferred to the new one. Is there a way to check?

I am still trying to figure out if there is a way for me to see on each individual fact, what fact type it is attached to. In relation to my new contact info, I had already had an undefined fact with the contact info and would like to try moving them to the new contact info fact.... Is this where your Change fact type plug in comes into play?

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

If both the old and new facts are listed, then I suspect you have not followed the instructions carefully enough.
Compare the two entries making sure the window is wide enough to see all columns in full:
Are their bullet colours on the left both the same (blue or red)?
Are their Type values both the same (Event or Attribute)?
Are their Name values both the same, ignoring upper/lower case differences, and substituting any non-alpha-numeric symbols in old tag with underscores in new tag?

It is most likely this last comparison that is the problem. You have probably not spelled the new fact the same as the old fact, or have not substituted all the symbols with underscores. If that is the case then Delete that new fact and try again.

If you cannot see any discrepancies then please post a screenshot of the Fact Types list.

As soon as new tag matches old tag, only new version will be listed, and FH will perform the conversion with all data retained.
Remember to use File > Save to preserve that conversion.

While you can see two Fact Types (old with hyphen & new with underscore) then if you can find such a fact on the Individual Facts tab it can be differentiated by whether its name has a hyphen or an underscore, but I doubt if any new underscore facts will exist.

While there is no Fact Definition, what you see in the Individual Facts tab is the Fact Type and the same as listed in Tools > Fact Types.

Yes, Change Any Fact Tag will convert any existing fact into the Contact Info attribute.
In the Plugin select the following entries on the Individual Records tab:
Source Tag Set: <Custom Facts>
Source Tag Name: your EVEN-(or possibly _ATTR-)... tag type name
Target Tag Set: Contact Info
Target Tag Name: Contact Info
Then click the green EVEN-...tag...type to Contact Info button.
You can confirm each change one by one, or change all the rest in one go.

[Hnm]

Hi again, Mike,

I don't know if I am missing something. I have checked both facts:
1. Their names are and labels are the same. Either "Address - moved to" for the old or "Address_moved to" for the new
2. Both old and new are red and moth are listed as event
3. The only differences I see are that the new fact has time frame "life" and the old is empty in that section. Under fact set the new is defined as TMG and the old as <none>. In visible, the new has a check but the old is listed as <undefined>?

The only difference I saw in the name field was that their were spaces on either side of the hyphen. So I also tried creating a fact using a triple underscore in case the space needed to be reproduced to. Again, the original Address - moved to still exists

I'm attaching a screen shot.

Also, is there anyway I can get a list of the individuals or families attached to each fact?

Thanks,
Helen

[tatewise]

You also need an underscore for space between moved and to:
Address___moved_to
EVERY non-alpha-numeric must become an underscore.

I have just noticed that pre-release FH V6.1.4 claims to fix this problem we have been experiencing with hyphens and presumably should allow the original Edit technique without complaining about the invalid hyphen.

To lists Facts v Individuals use View > Standard Queries > All Facts.
Click any column heading to sort by that column.
So click on Facts column and scroll down to Fact of interest to see all Individuals using that fact.

[Hnm]

Thanks, Mike. The query was just what I needed.

I added the additional underscore but the original "- moved to" still remains as does its connections. At this point, I think I should just wait until I can download 6.1.4...

Best,
Helen

[Hnm]

An update - I found 6.1.4 and was able to update the program. Now all of my hyphens work and I have been able to define all the undefined facts. Assume I can use your Change fact type to consolidate between the original TMG tags and the FH facts.

Is there a way that one is able to edit each individual fact that has already been entered for an individual?

Also, I have been following your suggestion about the contact info and now have downloaded the plug in so that there is a tab containing all the contact info. Is there a way for me to move the contact info that appears on a TMG tag onto the contact info tab in FH? I note that the "Contact Info" is not a "fact" so I cannot use the option of changing fact type.

Thanks again, Mike!~

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

That is great that V6.1.4 fixes the problem.

Yes, use Change Any Fact Tag to consolidate.

What exactly do you want to edit in each individual Fact?

Custom Info is a fact so you can use Change Any Fact Tag as I explained in detail a few postings ago.

[Hnm]

Hi Mike,

I was able to use Change Fact type to change a residence fact to the contact info fact. This new fact appears on the Fact tab under "contact Info" which is as it should be. But when I originally ran your program to make the contact info, it also created a new tab labeled "contact Info"...... but the actual information is not listed here. Id the tab not working or is there something else I need to do to get the contact info fact to actually appear on this tab?

The reason I wanted to be able to edit each individual fact is that, say I am in a person's fact list and realize that one of their facts would better be served with a different fact. This is especially important to those of us coming from TMG where some of the tags might be better off somewhere else. As I see it now, I can use the Change fact type.... but it will bring up each use of that fact and I have to manually go through every fact of that type to choose the one or two that I might need to actually change.

For example, even in the Contact info, I had to manually go through all my residence tags to find the ones I wanted contact info for..... and the residence tag had included residences for people who have long since passed away.

I would much prefer, in cleaning up the import, to be able to go through each person individually and see how best to make sure their facts read correctly as sentences. ..... and sometimes, that means changing their fact type.

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

Is the Contact Info fact listed in Tools > Fact Types in the Contact Info Fact Set and does Edit immediately open its Fact Definition?

If so then all should be OK, but only the 1st Contact Info fact per Individual will display its details in the Contact tab.

If you enter something in the topmost box on the Contact tab, does it appear in the Facts tab?

Change Any Fact Tag allows Facts to be filtered by Place field, Date field, and the Value of Attributes, which reduces the number to be confirmed individually.

The simplest way to change one fact is to use Add Fact button for new fact, then copy & paste fields from old fact to new fact, and delete old fact. Just double check on the All tab that all fields have been copied before final delete.

[Hnm]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for taking all this time to help me!

When I first made the plugin, the Contact info did not appear on the fact type list. I had then closed the program and when I reopened it to check for you, it was there. Same thing happened, if I remember correctly when I made the hyphenated tags..... so I think one has to close and reopen the program for some of these items to work.

So the Contact info fact is now listed in fact type list and can be edited. One does have to change the time reference to life.

I also entered contact info for an individual who had not previously had one using the tab section. The address did carry over onto the fact tab and I think I figured out why the others did not. In the other tags that I had changed, the dresses came over as "place" rather than address. If I cut and pasted it into address, it then went over to the contact info tab. That still leaves the problem of phone numbers and e-mails which were delineated by commas... on the fact tab, there was no space to delineate them in the contact info section below the listed tags.... so there was no way to get them into the tabbed section unless one copies, switches tabs, and pastes each individual section.

As for the last part, the ability to change just one fact, my wish would be for the ability to just change fact type in each individual fact.... I will add it to the wish list! It was something we had in TMG and it allowed us tremendous flexibility.

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

I think you understand the Contact Info concepts now. It is just a matter of getting the data into the best fields, that are inevitably different in FH than in TMG. Remember that the Contact Info tab is simply a different view of the same fact as on the Facts tab, and the All tab, and the All tab displays ALL the fields, whereas the Facts tab only displays a popular subset of fields.

BTW: The Contact Info downloads are not strictly Plugins, but a Custom Fact Set, Custom Tab, Custom Report, etc.

I am considering an update to the Change Any Fact Tag Plugin to filter by selected Records, then you can select one Individual Record and only its Facts will be offered in the Confirmation dialogue.

[Hnm]

Mike, thank you for all the time you spent explaining everything. It is still a very big job moving to FH from TMG.... one I expected but hoped would not be quite as convoluted.

A change to allow one to choose an individual fact to change type would be very beneficial.....I don't know or understand what is involved in changing such, but a suggestion I might have (if you don't mind my being bold enough to make a suggestion) would be that an "edit" fact plugin which could include the change fact type plus also allow for any other changes might be very helpful. I have not done enough work with FH to see if all my current facts can actually be changed in the edit areas below the list on the fact tab. For example, on an address tag that is for family, one cannot see who the two principles are. I usually know who they are, but with multiple marriages, there is no easy way for me to check if it is correct other than clicking on the spouse name.

The only other item on my wish list for this (and again, I have not delved deep enough into FH to see if it is possible already) would be the ability to choose one of the alternate names for use in a specific fact. I plan to make use of the narrative reports and often my people have been born with one name but as an adult, have used another... for marriage, residence, etc.

Regards,
Helen

[tatewise]

Apart from changing the Fact Type you are able to make all other changes in the Property Box. As mentioned before, the Facts tab only offers a popular subset of fields, but the All tab offers ALL the fields that can be edited, so a Plugin cannot add any extra capability that is not already available on the All tab.

All family Facts such as Marriage, Divorce, and your custom Address tag should identify the other spouse/partner in the Facts tab. So for example with multiple Marriages, each Spouse name is listed against each Marriage Fact, both in the list of Facts and in the Sentence at the bottom. Does that not apply to your Address tag?

As has been mentioned elsewhere, there are two ways to adjust narrative Sentences:
1) One is in Tools > Fact Types in the Sentence Template of each Fact, which then applies globally. Conditional functions can be used to choose say alternative names depending on the person's age at the Date of the fact, but might be challenging to get the sentence wording just right.
2) Also the Sentence box at the bottom of each Fact can be customised selectively for each specific Fact.

[Hnm]

Getting more and more complicated by the minute and am not sure if FH is able to do what I need to do to make my narrative reports read well.

In the problem with adjusting and making all the witness roles (that actually appear in each individual's fact list, I first need to go to one of the principals on that fact, and then run a query showing me which fact it is actually attached to. I can then create the role and as long as I do not change the original role name, for example, W after B, I can link the witness role to the new fact and playing with my sentences globally can get the format I desire.

I am still stuck with the problem of not being able to chose the name of the principal as I would like it to appear. In TMG there is a drop down list of all names of an individual and one is able to chose which one is to appear in that sentence. In FH, if I try to change the name in that fact tab, the entire sentence reverts to the code and I am forced to write a whole hew sentence. If I do this for each person, not only am I rewriting many of the facts but I lose the ability to then go in and globally change everything should I want to do so....

Regards,
Helen

[tatewise]

Sorry Helen, I lost track of what you are describing. Either use more specific names of dialogues and fields, or supply some screenshoots.

Inevitably, FH will be different from TMG, and offers different capabilities, some pros, some cons. Some of your problems may be due to inexperience, so don't judge too soon.

[Hnm]

Hi Mike,

I'm not judging.... just plugging away to try and learn as much as I can. I know I still have a lot to learn and may even find "cleaning up" TMG and reimporting the data an easier way to go.

I'm just trying to find out if FH will meet me needs in the end. The one big point is if there is a way for me to chose the way an individual's name will appear in a sentence of a narrative report. For example, a person's birth name, which is the name all their information is entered under, may not be the name they used when they were married or had children. Going further, if one has the fact sentence of, "Jane Doe lived with her parents, Joe Doe and Sara Doe.....", if Joe Doe's birth name was Joe Donington, the sentence would be silly to read, "Jane Doe live with her parents, Joe Donington and Sara Smith.... I would like the ability to chose the names that should appear.

I have a feeling that all this may be possible with advanced programing skills, something I do not have. I was hoping there was an easy way already in FH.

I'll keep trying!!

Best,
Helen

[tatewise]

The ability to choose one of the Alternative Names in Sentences is a recognised weakness of FH that has also been identified by others.

The options are:
1) Use the global advanced programming features as advised by FHUG members here, who will happily offer solutions.
2) In each specific Fact Sentence replace the codes with plain text names.
3) Temporarily swap the Primary Name with an Alternative Name in the parent's Property Boxes (there is a button to do that), create the Report, then swap them back.
But I recognise these are probably not always satisfactory and perhaps not as convenient as TMG.