* Diagrams-moving a/group of box in any direction.

[jimlad68]

I've been playing with diagrams with a view to printing so on my diagram I have checked both "Show and Avoid Page Boundaries". I am using Left to Right diagrams.

1. Now, as wonderful as Smart Trees is, whenever I move a box everything else shuffles about. Is there a way to just move a single or selected group of boxes and keep everything else the same or "anchor" other nearby boxes?

2. After a lot of trial and error I've worked out a few "moves" of boxes, but not a single or selected group of boxes "at will".

This old topic Repositioning boxes in diagrams (11103) mentions "handles", but these only seem to move/drag a "descendant" group together (or 1 if it is on its own) in an up/down direction, also seemingly randomly moving attached groups too. Is there a trick to this? I'm not even sure I have found these handles.

3. I cannot find any way to move a box to the left (this is a L>R diagram), only right, then back again.

I've had a look in the "getting the most FH5", and searched the knowledge base and past forum topics but can't find a simple way to move boxes.

Is there another repository of info on box moving in diagrams?

The FH automatic "box placement" will do, but it would be nice to fine tune bits without shuffling everything else around.

[LornaCraig]

Hi Jim,

I use top-to-bottom diagrams but a quick experiment seems to confirm similar techniques apply in left-to-right.

1. To move a single or selected group of boxes, use the Box & Bar move (but do not select '...within row'), select the boxes in question and drag one of them. The only constraint is that obviously any ancestor/descendant boxes ‘growing’ directly from a moved box will have to move with it.
Note: if you select '...within row' other boxes in the same generation may have to move, so that the generations remain in distinct rows (colums, in the case of a left-to-right diagram).

2. The ‘handles’ are indicated by tiny diamond shapes, when Box & Bar move is selected. If you have managed to move a group up/down within a left-to-right diagram you have probably found them. In fact, using the handle you can use the Box & Bar move to slide a group (or one, if it is on its own) around in cirlces, both up/down and left/right. The constraint is that the box/group can only move outward from the diagram root, so boxes left of the root can only move left and back again, boxes right of the root can only move right and back again. They cannot move nearer to the diagram root than they started. (I think the only exception to this is in an All Relatives diagram, with ancestors and their descendant branches where more movement is posible).

3. See above: in most diagrams, boxes can only be moved ‘outwards’ from the diagram root, and back again.

Is there another repository of info on box moving in diagrams?

I assume you have looked at the Help files? Search for Movement Control Box (Diagram Window).

[tatewise]

I agree that moving boxes & branches in Diagrams is something of a black art, and moving one item often shuffles other items.

I presume you are interested in movement with Show/Avoid Page Boundaries enabled, because you plan to print on multiple A4 sheets, rather than send a large one-page PDF to a professional printer.

The movements possible and the "handles" offered depend on the type of boxes involved.
The lines between Ancestor (green) boxes offer more "handles" and movements than lines between Descendant (straw) boxes.

I can move boxes left & right in a Left-right Diagram. However, Descendant boxes are initially left justified against their bar and cannot be moved any further left. Ancestor boxes have much greater freedom of movement.

Movement options are also affected by the type of Diagram. An All Relatives Diagram offers Flat and Layered alternatives and Flat appears to allow more movement.

The only way to "anchor" a box is by the Fixed Point ~ Set mode, and then only movement up-down within the same generation column is allowed.

[jimlad68]

<> Lorna,
- thanks for those confirmations of my research, put more eloquently than myself.

- I did see Movement Control Box (Diagram Window), but your explanation is much better!

<> Mike, again thanks for confirmations and extra detail.

<> OK, I can work within the limitations now I know what they are, but there is one thing that still bugs me and might be to do with my settings.

In this picture the dotted line is the page break. The other picture shows my Dimensions options.
- the spouses are set to .2 cm apart.
- when they are both on the same page, no problem.
- when divided by a page break you will notice the Richard Glover link is way below the first marriage (this also happens when there is only 1 marriage) and happens only on the last column with this large space, other columns are much better, but often still lower than I would expect. This is where a little box nudge would be helpful.
- It does seem better if the option "Straighten descendant branch line where possible" is ticked, but that adds many "kinks" but is more space efficient. So I suspect from this that FH Smart Trees is trying to align boxes in a particular "flow".

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[LornaCraig]

Yes, avoiding page boundaries does introduce an additional element of the unexpected!

Edit: I am not sure, but one possibility is that all boxes that need moving are moved by the same amount, so if Reuben Harrison's box had to move 1cm Richard Glover's is also moved by 1cm, even though it was already lower than Reuben's box, and 0.5 cm would have been enough. Otherwise it is difficult to explain why Richard Glover's box is not aligned with Reuben Harrison's.

Sometimes a slight adjustment to the diagram scaling is enough to 'tweak' things so that a particular box does not have to jump to the next page, but it often means something goes wrong elsewhere in the diagram!

The quickest way to test the effect of scaling adjustment is to right-click on an intersection of page boundaries and drag diagonally to expand or shrink the pages relative to the diagram. (It's actually the diagram that will be changing size, of course). When you click, the page boundaries will still show but the adjustment to avoid boundaries will not take effect again until you release.

[tatewise]

If you play with moving branches across boundaries you will see what is happening more clearly, and understand why it is difficult to improve.

When a box reaches the boundary it must hop across by a whole box size.
If the gaps between all the boxes linked to it were retained, then they would also hop by the same amount.
If that were applied to the whole branch, then other boxes would have to hop the boundary too, and there would be a cascade effect, possibly leading to the whole branch crossing the boundary.
If the whole branch could not fit on the page, then the process would automatically repeat on the next boundary, and an infinite chase across boundaries would ensue.

To prevent that, FH would have to make the initial hopping boxes slide along a branch bar to stop the cascade.

But even then, if there is such a large group of connected spouses or siblings that they span more than one page, then it is not possible to both avoid boundaries and retain minimum gaps.

The only other scheme would involve evenly spacing the linked boxes that span a boundary, so that although greater than the minimum, the gap across the boundary is not excessive.

Reducing the Dimensions > More Dimensions > Avoid boundaries gap to near 0 does help a little.

[jimlad68]

Thanks for those extra comments and "tricks".

What seems to make the least distance is to tick the option "Straighten descendant branch line where possible". With this option it might not be as big a problem as I thought in practice, so after some more study, perhaps an addition to the wish list to turn off/freeze the Smart part of the tree and just move individual boxes.

[LornaCraig]

I must admit I'm still not sure why, in your example, Richard Glover's box is significantly lower than Reuben Harrison's box. Clearly it didn't need to move as much as it has, to avoid the page boundary. The mysteries of FH....

[jimlad68]

yes Lorna it is a long way away, but for me it always does it on the end column, but that is without "Straighten descendant branch line where possible", perhaps it is a bug, perhaps just on a L>R diagram.

[tatewise]

The gaps will depend on the history of movements.
If Robert MARSH has just hopped up over the boundary, then Richard GLOVER will be a whole box size away from the boundary.
Whereas Rueben HARRISON has been moving up with the whole tree, and is about to hop the boundary.

If the tree were moved back down, then Robert would hop back above Richard and next to Rueben, and the large gaps would be above the boundary in this part of the tree.

[LornaCraig]

Ah, yes. I'd been assuming that Richard Glover had just hopped down to avoid the page boundary, but it makes sense if Robert Marsh, and therefore the people above him, have just hopped up.

A Bar move could slide the whole Marsh/Glover bar up, so that although Richard Glover would still be (just) below the boundary Robert Marsh and those above him don't have to hop so far. Richard Glover's box could then be aligned with Reuben Harrison's. This shouldn't impact anything at the top of the page, because Robert Marsh will still only hop to the same place, it will just be a shorter hop. (Might be fiddly though!)

[Elisa]

I am new to FH (v6) and, as above, am struggling to move boxes to avoid quite so many pages for my chart. My previous genealogy program could do this, and though it took time, it meant you could avoid boundaries without necessarily making the chart bigger.
you could move the whole tree, or any individual branches (downwards) or boxes
Please can you tell me if v7 enables this greater flexibility?
Many thanks

[LornaCraig]

Elisa, the options for moving elements of diagrams are much the same in V6 and V7, although V7 makes it easier to see what can be moved because when you have the Movement Control Box open there are four different types of moveable coloured bars displayed in the diagram. And of course it's also possible to reduce the scale of the diagram to reduce its overall size. The only constraint with the scaling is that the text still needs to be big enough to be readable if it is printed out on paper, but that problem will apply in any genealogy program. The Help file for the Movement Control Box is quite comprehensive and is worth studying carefully.

From what you have said, FH can do everything that your previous genealogy program could do. It does take some practice to manipulate the size and shape of diagrams, but I work with diagrams a lot and I have never found a diagram which couldn't be manipulated to achieve what I wanted.

[Elisa]

Hi Lorna,
Thank you for replying so quickly and for your helpful tips. I've obviously got a way to go with this - lots more practice needed! I've spotted the scaling tool now - that helps along with the avoiding page breaks tool. I just shouldn't worry about an extra couple of pages!
Is there a quick way to amend the font size in all the boxes, for my older relatives? It's quite a lot to get my head round! Its very encouraging though, to know that you always manage to find a way!
Many thanks
Elisabeth

[LornaCraig]

The size of the font in the diagram boxes can be changed (use Diagram Options>Text>Edit Text Scheme, then click the Help button in the Edit Text Scheme dialog) but if you try to increase the font size at the same time as reducing the scaling the two processes will work against each other. You might just end up with text which is too big to fit in the boxes without enlarging the minimum box size, which would start to make the whole diagram bigger again. I suggest you find a scaling size which produces text which is readable by your elderly relatives, and then make sure you don't reduce the scaling any lower than that.

I assume that you want to produce paper copies of charts for your relatives, which is why the page boundaries and number of pages are an issue. Howeve, in case you didn't know, it is possible to save a diagram as a single page PDF file. The PDF can be viewed on any device which has a PDF reader, and the zooming and scrolling tools can then be used to move around the diagram. You can zoom in as much as needed to read the text. To do this, use Diagram>Save Diagram As>PDF file, then make sure that the default option to Adjust PDF File Page Size so the Diagram fits into One Page (if possible) is selected. The file will be saved to the Public folder of you project by default but you can choose to save it anywhere.

[Elisa]

Hi Lorna
I am sorry it takes me a while to reply - I REALLY do appreciate your answers and am finding them very useful. It's just real life gets in the way!
I've increased the font size to 10 and that doesn't seem to have made much difference - all the notes still show in the boxes, so that's ok. I'm gradually finding more buttons to do things!
and the PDF idea is BRILLIANT - I had seen it was possible, but hadn't appreciated the value of it. It won't work for all elderly relatives, but I'm beginning to feel the need to bombard many more relatives with easier to read trees. Previously I sent PDFs which then required them to have the enthusiasm required to print and stick! haha!

if you're not too fed up with my questions, dare I ask another? - the undo button doesn't seem to work on charts and diagrams and I have to keep closing and reopening. I saw it mentioned that undo is better in v7 - will it solve this one?
and is there a way to edit the text in individual boxes?

Sadly I have to go to work now, but thank you so much for your time
Have a good day
Elisabeth

[LornaCraig]

Hi Elisabeth,

You are right, the undo button doesn’t work in diagrams so if you make a change which you don’t like you need to reverse it manually or, as you say, close the diagram and start again. (This is the same in V7 as in V6). One way round this is to save a ‘partially’ manipulated diagram as a Family Historian Chart. You can then make changes to the saved chart and when you close the chart you are asked if you want to save the changes to the chart. If you don’t like the most recent changes you can say ‘no’. Then you will still have the chart in its previous state, which may be better than having to start again completely from scratch.

It is possible to control the text displayed in individual boxes to a limited extent. For example if you want to hide some of the information about particular people you could set a Private flag on them. Then use Diagram Options>Text and use the Clone button to make a copy of your current text scheme. (This is so that you can experiment with it without changing the basic scheme – although if you do change the original you could always revert using Edit Text Scheme>Restore Defaults). Now you select the cloned scheme and Edit Text Scheme. Select one of the items in the right hand pane which you want to hide, and click Edit at the bottom of the pane. Now tick Flag Condition, select the Private flag and …must be not set. Click OK, and OK again in the next screen. That item of data will now only be displayed for individuals who do not have the Private flag.

Adding extra information for particular people is more tricky. Personally if I want to add any ‘one-off’ details to a diagram I use Diagram Options>Insert into Diagram>Text Box. You need to experiment with the size of the box and the text, but you can enter any extra notes there and position the text box just below the individual’s diagram box (or even inside it, if there is room). Unfortunately an inserted text box won’t move when you make adjustments to the position other parts of the diagram so it needs to be moved separately. For this reason it is best to add the extra text box last, when everything else is in place.
 

[Elisa]

Hi Lorna
thank you again. So that seems quite complicated, but doable if necessary
In your opinion is it worth getting version 7? That's 2 things that would have been useful, but haven't appeared! I see it has templates for adding census data and such like. I haven't tried it yet, but I believe Ancestral Sources does a similar thing
and one other point - have you found a way of making the spouses name bolder or in colour? I can't see a way of doing it
Thank you for your help
Elisabeth

[LornaCraig]

It's difficult to advise whether to upgrade to V7. It might depend on whether you have started entering data from scratch in FH (in which case you could learn about the new V7 source templates now and decide if you want to use them) or have transferred your existing data from your other genealogy program, in which case your existing sources will be 'generic' sources in FH. It's difficult to convert generic sources into templated sources, and many people who have upgraded to V7 have decided to continue using all generic sources. It would be possible to use a mixture but it's then difficult to achieve a consistent style of footnotes in reports.

V7 has the advantage of formated text in note fields which is useful if you want to produce a lot of reports.
You have probably alreay seen it, but there is a list of the new features of V7 here: https://www.family-historian.co.uk/whats-new-in-7

The Ancestral Source program will work with either V6 or V7 and can be used with either generic or templated sources.

Re the spouse names, are you referring to the names as they appear in diagrams? I always display spouses in their own boxes so their names are always bold. If you are using the option to have ‘One box per marriage’ you should be able to insert a font change into the text scheme just before the spouse line. In the Edit Text Scheme dialog, select <Font change (style,text,colour etc)> from the left hand pane and click the arrow in the middle. After setting up the new font you can move the font change up to the required position in the list in the right hand pane using the up/down arrows. The font change will apply to all lines that come after it until another font change is reached.

[Elisa]

Thank you, I'll have a go at that..
and think about v7 then. I did transfer all my data over but it hasn't fitted neatly. I had a lot of personalised notes forms - eg for all my census data - and the only place they show is in the All Tab. also addresses and occupations etc have come over without fitting neatly into the FH boxes
It was a good programme (and i still prefer the family window) but it had stopped being supported and upgraded several years ago, so the move was inevitable at some point. This is my second move - the first was from a DOS-based program, so that took a bit of sorting too!

many thanks for all your help
best wishes
Elisabeth

[LornaCraig]

Did you see the guidance in the Knowledge Base about importing from various other products? This section Importing to Family Historian has information importing from about all the main genealogy programs.

If you need to ask for advice about the import process, start a new topic in the Importing and Exporting forum.

[Elisa]

No, I didn't see that
ummm....

thank you