Can anyone tell me what Database and Query language is used in FH?
Also, if it is a proprietary language is there a good tutorial anywhere?
TIA
Eddie
ID:5093
* Database
-
tatewise
- Megastar
- Posts: 27086
- Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
- Family Historian: V7
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Database
Have you looked at the FH product website http://www.family-historian.co.uk, in particular the Features tab:
http://www.family-historian.co.uk/features/feature-list
The FH database uses the GEDCOM data file structure.
For more information see the following link:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/fhhelp/index.html and follow GEDCOM link.
The FH query language is proprietary.
For more information see the following links:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/fhhelp/index.html and select Using Family Historian+Main Windows+Query Window.
http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id ... ng_a_query which links to an animated tutorial.
http://www.family-historian.co.uk/features/feature-list
The FH database uses the GEDCOM data file structure.
For more information see the following link:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/fhhelp/index.html and follow GEDCOM link.
The FH query language is proprietary.
For more information see the following links:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/fhhelp/index.html and select Using Family Historian+Main Windows+Query Window.
http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id ... ng_a_query which links to an animated tutorial.
Database
Thank you both for your replies - tatewise I'll be learning about cutomising queries - thanks for the links.
Jane has given me more idea about what I wanted to know.
I am evaluating FH for purchase and I prefer it to the 5 or so others I've evaluated. The interactive diagrams are a boon. Although I criticise some functions below please take this in the spirit it is intended - a genuine enquiry and constructive criticism..
The data entry is a time-consuming and an error-prone nightmare even allowing for AS and automatic source citation (which is very easy to leave on by mistake). It is easy to forget a bit of data also has to go in this field and this field and for this person and this etc. Most of these data entry problems were solved decades ago. Is FH a young product ?
I was wondering, for example, if FH used something like a data model over sqlite with SQL as the query language as in this case all of the db elements are taken care of by the developers of these products. Such a structure allows not only for concentrating on the interface and model rather than re-inventing the wheel but for add-ons to be developed more easily. Even graphical query builders can be created which do away with the need to learn any query language and much more. Paradox had all this over 20 years ago as has any modern relational database.
I found (and used) the excellent Ancestral Sources but I would have expected this functionality and more to be integral to the program. Although the developer of AS has plans to incorporate BMDs, in my view this should have been part of the program too. In fact AS (or FH) should be able to keep track of each data set it has added and allow you to retrieve and modify it if necesssary writing the corrections to the database. Each known data type, (e.g. BMD, Census)should have it's own data entry screen and know all the places the data needs to be added much like AS but able to recall the data it has added, it is after all just another type of 'record'.
None of the programs I tested were good in this respect and it was a big surprise that they were so counter-intuitive and lagging behind in the data entry stakes.
Please do not consider this to be a 'put down' or anything like that - I genuinely like this product and in many respects others were worse but I (and my partner who has been employed for almost 35 years in IT) both consider the difficulties encountered in data entry to be archaic and error-prone and for many years these problems have been minimised by good data entry screens and checks.
I don't suppose my post will affect any change but although I can use the program and learn it's advanced features and I expect to buy it, while it is easy to enter the basics and build a tree it is deceptive as, if you want to do the job properly, it has an unnecessarily steep learning curve and I would have to point out these pitfalls to prospective users before I could recommend it.
I hope you can see the merit in what I am saying and that at some stage you address these problems as you would then certainly have the best product on the market as well as the best looking.
Jane has given me more idea about what I wanted to know.
I am evaluating FH for purchase and I prefer it to the 5 or so others I've evaluated. The interactive diagrams are a boon. Although I criticise some functions below please take this in the spirit it is intended - a genuine enquiry and constructive criticism..
The data entry is a time-consuming and an error-prone nightmare even allowing for AS and automatic source citation (which is very easy to leave on by mistake). It is easy to forget a bit of data also has to go in this field and this field and for this person and this etc. Most of these data entry problems were solved decades ago. Is FH a young product ?
I was wondering, for example, if FH used something like a data model over sqlite with SQL as the query language as in this case all of the db elements are taken care of by the developers of these products. Such a structure allows not only for concentrating on the interface and model rather than re-inventing the wheel but for add-ons to be developed more easily. Even graphical query builders can be created which do away with the need to learn any query language and much more. Paradox had all this over 20 years ago as has any modern relational database.
I found (and used) the excellent Ancestral Sources but I would have expected this functionality and more to be integral to the program. Although the developer of AS has plans to incorporate BMDs, in my view this should have been part of the program too. In fact AS (or FH) should be able to keep track of each data set it has added and allow you to retrieve and modify it if necesssary writing the corrections to the database. Each known data type, (e.g. BMD, Census)should have it's own data entry screen and know all the places the data needs to be added much like AS but able to recall the data it has added, it is after all just another type of 'record'.
None of the programs I tested were good in this respect and it was a big surprise that they were so counter-intuitive and lagging behind in the data entry stakes.
Please do not consider this to be a 'put down' or anything like that - I genuinely like this product and in many respects others were worse but I (and my partner who has been employed for almost 35 years in IT) both consider the difficulties encountered in data entry to be archaic and error-prone and for many years these problems have been minimised by good data entry screens and checks.
I don't suppose my post will affect any change but although I can use the program and learn it's advanced features and I expect to buy it, while it is easy to enter the basics and build a tree it is deceptive as, if you want to do the job properly, it has an unnecessarily steep learning curve and I would have to point out these pitfalls to prospective users before I could recommend it.
I hope you can see the merit in what I am saying and that at some stage you address these problems as you would then certainly have the best product on the market as well as the best looking.
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nsw
Database
Hi EddieEddieA said:
I found (and used) the excellent Ancestral Sources but I would have expected this functionality and more to be integral to the program. Although the developer of AS has plans to incorporate BMDs, in my view this should have been part of the program too. In fact AS (or FH) should be able to keep track of each data set it has added and allow you to retrieve and modify it if necesssary writing the corrections to the database. Each known data type, (e.g. BMD, Census)should have it's own data entry screen and know all the places the data needs to be added much like AS but able to recall the data it has added, it is after all just another type of 'record'.
Firstly Eddie this is a user group - you are possibly speaking to the wrong audience. Your last sentence seems to suggest you thought you were addressing Calico Pie. Many users on this site express similar sentiments to you and have frustrations, but FH (assisted by A.S!) still appears to be the best software available to us.
Thanks for the kind words regarding Ancestral Sources. Ability to add baptisms will appear later this month hopefully, other sources in the not too distant future. I have a very full time job and young children so Ancestral Sources is something I do in what little spare time I have and of course is free-of-charge. The ability to retrieve and edit the data added is near to impossible in the case of some of the data, and very difficult in the case of much of the rest. This is because of the way the data is stored in the GEDCOM format and also because I can't rely on how the data is manipulated later in Family Historian. If the data was only added using Ancestral Sources then I could indeed track it for future editing but this isn't the case. I don't have the time to spend working on the editing of existing data. Personally, I've added around 700 census sources to my own family tree but have only needed to edit these details a handful of times. A lot of work to implement editing data for very little gain in my opinion. I think entry of the other sources types is far more important
What made Family Historian fairly unique when I began to use it in 2004 was the fact that it saves its data in a text-based open format, rather than a proprietary closed format. This has allowed me to develop A.S. and also allowed other utilities to handle FH data directly without the need to export the data first. I believe Calico Pie is a very small company and therefore the rate of development is quite slow. Back in 2004 if I'd waited for the functionality available in Ancestral Sources to appear I think I would still have been waiting almost 10 years later.
Ultimately the developer of FH can only do what they can do with the time available to them. In an ideal world they would have built more sophisticated data entry in and added all sorts of other features from the 'wish list' but I guess they would have needed to employ more programmers, and do the profits justify that?
I imagine a new version of FH will appear in the next 12 months so let's wait and see what it includes.
Best wishes
Nick
Database
Hello Nick
Yes, you'e right I did make a mistake in forgetting it was a user group - I am so used to forums where the people behind the scenes are the developers or proprietors of the software. So I hope the other members of the User Group will excuse what might appear to be a rant in this forum.
From what you've written I see that it isn't viable to be able to 'edit' the data after it has been input using AS but as I thought I was talking to Calico Pie that would have been fair comment from me. I appreciate what you've done and think it is an excellent tool and as a user of a lot of open source software I understand that features take time to develop and it's your time and that may not always be available. I hope you keep up the good work. None of my criticisms were aimed at AS but rather at what FH should be doing.
I am glad the data was stored in an accessible format otherwise we wouldn't have AS at all but if it were a sqlite type database the schema could have been made available to other developers (as I'm sure you know) and the functionality I suggested would have been viable.
Although you may not have needed to recall your data and edit it I'm sure there are many people who may have entered something erroneously and want an easy method of repairing the damage. For example if someone has laboriously followed the wrong tree and entered data which need to be removed. I find the 'splitting' helper to be confusing too and it would be really nice to be 'certain' there were no spurious facts lurking in your tree somewhere.
Being able to retrieve any given input would be reassuring for the new user and a useful tool for the odd occasion when we all make a mistake and it would be preferable to using a query or manually removing the data as both these options add complexity which may result in error.
What is paramount in Genealogy software is the integrity of the data and this is why data entry is more important than all other functions; the diagrams and queries and other tools must take second place as they mean nothing if they are working on spurious or innacurate data.
It was from your reply I learned that Calico Pie is a small company. That fact is a mixed blessing. In one way it may be more acessible and in others it limits the amount of development time available. If it's a single developer they should be applauded for what they've done. I do like the product and I like the idea it's UK oriented and I wish them luck but they are selling a product which has a certain function and as integrity of data is the sine qua non for genealogy software I believe every effort should be made to enable users to achieve this goal. Simplifying data entry and foolproofing the process would help us all and that's without mentioning the enormous amount of time it would save.
Talking of which I think I've taking up enough of everybody's - so thanks again
Eddie
Yes, you'e right I did make a mistake in forgetting it was a user group - I am so used to forums where the people behind the scenes are the developers or proprietors of the software. So I hope the other members of the User Group will excuse what might appear to be a rant in this forum.
From what you've written I see that it isn't viable to be able to 'edit' the data after it has been input using AS but as I thought I was talking to Calico Pie that would have been fair comment from me. I appreciate what you've done and think it is an excellent tool and as a user of a lot of open source software I understand that features take time to develop and it's your time and that may not always be available. I hope you keep up the good work. None of my criticisms were aimed at AS but rather at what FH should be doing.
I am glad the data was stored in an accessible format otherwise we wouldn't have AS at all but if it were a sqlite type database the schema could have been made available to other developers (as I'm sure you know) and the functionality I suggested would have been viable.
Although you may not have needed to recall your data and edit it I'm sure there are many people who may have entered something erroneously and want an easy method of repairing the damage. For example if someone has laboriously followed the wrong tree and entered data which need to be removed. I find the 'splitting' helper to be confusing too and it would be really nice to be 'certain' there were no spurious facts lurking in your tree somewhere.
Being able to retrieve any given input would be reassuring for the new user and a useful tool for the odd occasion when we all make a mistake and it would be preferable to using a query or manually removing the data as both these options add complexity which may result in error.
What is paramount in Genealogy software is the integrity of the data and this is why data entry is more important than all other functions; the diagrams and queries and other tools must take second place as they mean nothing if they are working on spurious or innacurate data.
It was from your reply I learned that Calico Pie is a small company. That fact is a mixed blessing. In one way it may be more acessible and in others it limits the amount of development time available. If it's a single developer they should be applauded for what they've done. I do like the product and I like the idea it's UK oriented and I wish them luck but they are selling a product which has a certain function and as integrity of data is the sine qua non for genealogy software I believe every effort should be made to enable users to achieve this goal. Simplifying data entry and foolproofing the process would help us all and that's without mentioning the enormous amount of time it would save.
Talking of which I think I've taking up enough of everybody's - so thanks again
Eddie
-
tatewise
- Megastar
- Posts: 27086
- Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
- Contact:
Database
I would like to add a point about Diagrams that that EddieA may have overlooked.
FH I believe is unique in that its Diagrams are not purely output presentations of the data; they are designed to be a primary method of entering data too.
Every style of Diagram allows the user to double-click on any box and display the Individual's Property Box, and any new data is immediately added to the Diagram dynamically.
Also, especially in the All Relatives Diagram, if you click & hold and drag any box, you can add children, spouses, and parents, depending on which direction you drag. Their details can them be added via the Property Box technique above.
FH claim that the All Relatives Diagram is a feature rarely found in genealogy software.
Many of your comments about data entry are echoed by members of this FHUG - just look at the Wish List - but FH is still one of the best available, and AS is a gem.
FH I believe is unique in that its Diagrams are not purely output presentations of the data; they are designed to be a primary method of entering data too.
Every style of Diagram allows the user to double-click on any box and display the Individual's Property Box, and any new data is immediately added to the Diagram dynamically.
Also, especially in the All Relatives Diagram, if you click & hold and drag any box, you can add children, spouses, and parents, depending on which direction you drag. Their details can them be added via the Property Box technique above.
FH claim that the All Relatives Diagram is a feature rarely found in genealogy software.
Many of your comments about data entry are echoed by members of this FHUG - just look at the Wish List - but FH is still one of the best available, and AS is a gem.
Database
Hello tatewise
Yes I have noticed the interactive diagrams, I use them a lot, and I think it is a major feature of FH and much better than anything the competitiion has to offer.
Thanks for pointing it out though
Eddie
Yes I have noticed the interactive diagrams, I use them a lot, and I think it is a major feature of FH and much better than anything the competitiion has to offer.
Thanks for pointing it out though
Eddie