* Connecting multiple copies of same source database

[bjz]

Can anyone suggest a good way to connect the copy of a database from two different repositories or data providers?

Ancestry licenses databases from all over, and in particular it has copies of many databases from Familysearch (Familysearch does the same in reverse). I am hoping that I can find a way when this occurs to connect the two versions (which are identical) so that I don't re-cite a database I've used elsewhere.

Is it possible to have one source with two repositories? The citation details would be different, I think, but this is an increasingly common situation--all the major data sites cross-license primary records.

Ideas?
Barbara

[tatewise]

FH V7 is compliant with GEDCOM 5.5.1, allowing a Source record to link to two Repository records.
In fact, it seems that FH V7 allows any number of Repository records to be linked.
You will need to use the Source record Property Box 'All' tab right-click to add the Repository links, or use the cog Menu option to 'Customize Property Box' and add Repository items for SOUR.REPO[2], SOUR.REPO[3], etc.

If all the database versions are identical then I don't see why the citation details would differ.

[Mark1834]

I’ve actually spent a bit of time recently doing exactly the opposite! Some of my citing of cross-licenced sources was a bit untidy, so now I concentrate on just getting the original citation complete and correct (typically a FamilySearch database), and don’t duplicate the Ancestry and FMP versions. If I have the original primary image (e.g. a Parish Register), I don’t cite any of the abstract listings, which I just regard as finding aids.

[sbell95]

Why don't you just cite what you use? The databases may be "copies" of one another, but it's impossible to know if they are identical. It won't cause FH any problems to have multiple copies of a same-name database for different repositories.

[cwhermann]

I try to find the “source of the source” or the records the database was created from. If Ancestry is citing a Family Search database or FHL film number, then I will go to Family Search to see what record they are citing and then locate the actual records. Often images exist on FS. Likewise the opposite if FS is citing Ancestry.
I treat the Database as a finding aid to locate the actual record. Too often I find discrepancies between the index and the actual records. Or the index did not include all the information on the record, e.g. parents’ names on marriage records.
I may create a citation for the database for a fact or as part of a research log until I can locate the record. I do have facts where I have cited the database and then came back later and created an additional citation for the actual record, once located.

[LornaCraig]

Why don't you just cite what you use? The databases may be "copies" of one another, but it's impossible to know if they are identical. It won't cause FH any problems to have multiple copies of a same-name database for different repositories.

The point is that the transcriptions are shared. When one website has obtained its information from another they don’t provide independent corroboration. Citing them as separate sources for a particular fact in FH creates the impression that you have found two (or more) sources which provide evidence for the fact. You haven’t. (In the same way, if someone makes a mistake in their tree on Ancestry and it is copied by a dozen other Ancestry members the simple weight of numbers doesn’t corroborate it!)

I sometimes see cases where the same transcription details appear on FamilySearch, Ancestry and Findmypast, with the latter two attributing the transcription to FamilySearch. At the same time there is one slightly different transcription on Findmypast, provided by a local Family History Society. If you record all four as separate sources it looks as if there is a majority of three to one in favour of the first transcription. In fact if you can find the image it often turns out that the one from the FHS is the accurate one. If no image is available I record only one source for the transcription which originated from FamilySearch (sometimes with a note that it is duplicated on Ancestry and/or FMP) and one source for the independent transcription.

[Gowermick]

I agree with Lorna.if these different sites all use FamilySearch as their source, I just quote the film number from FamilySearch. I don’t bother stating whether I found the transcription on Ancestry, Fmp or whoever.
NB the films images are slowly being made available on-line by Family Search, so having the film number makes it easier to check if film has been released

What I find particularly frustrating is when the same site shows multiple copies of the same event, but show it taking place in slightly different place. Sometimes they show the town/village name, other times the Parish name. Takes a lot of digging through maps before one realises they are referring to same event, either that, or one described as a marriage is actually the banns from a different place entirely!

My aim is to get the actual image(s) when I can, then just use “Parish Register Marriage Image” as the source for the marriage, deleting all the other ‘transcription’ type database sources. (Similarly for Baptisms and Burials)

I tend to take transcriptions with a very large pinch of salt, ever since my 2’grtgrandmother Jemima Rothery, was once transcribed as Jennings Korbery

[Mark1834]

It took me a while to discover that for many of the FamilySearch references marked as “Image available from Family History Center”, the original image is readily downloaded from FMP (and possibly other sites). Image licensing restrictions and commercial interests clearly prevent FS providing free access to paid content from the subscription sites.

[Gowermick]

mark
TIP If the image is available to view on Family search, but restrictions prevent direct downloading, try Alt-Prtscn to take a screenshot. Then trim image in your editor of choice, many films are being made available for free download too.

[neil40]

mark
TIP If the image is available to view on Family search, but restrictions prevent direct downloading, try Alt-Prtscn to take a screenshot. Then trim image in your editor of choice, many films are being made available for free download too.

Windows 10/11 have 'Snipping Tool' that has several modes - Rectangle/Window/Full Screen/Free Form, so you can 'draw' your own area to grab, and has various highlighting tools too, you can then save the grab with any name you like, as a PNG, GIF or JPG file

[AdrianBruce]

Bear in mind that while two sites may start with identical collections, it is possible that they diverge over time. For instance, when FMP loaded the Cheshire Parish Registers (indexes and images), they used images from FamilySearch films and FS were contracted to provide the indexes, working from their own films. However, FMP allow corrections to indexes (replacements only, unlike Ancestry's additions) so those FMP indexes will be gradually diverging from the FS original indexes. (FS also has a correction mechanism - I think that might be the provision of additional index records - but again, corrections in FS may not be corrected in FMP).

With the gradual expiry of exclusive access, Ancestry and FMP may both have collections ostensibly covering the same originals. In that case, it is pretty certain that the two have indexed the data independently - the First World War Soldiers' Papers are a case in point. Usually that's obvious but you do need to ask the question where the stuff came from.

[bjz]

I started a reply but I can't find where it saved my draft.

If I can attach two repositories to a single source, that will help with the identical databases. There are cases where Ancestry refers directly to Familysearch to document the database; clearly the same source.

I am pretty new to Family Historian so let me outline a scenario, which will also help me think it through.

Long time ago, I got films from Familysearch for my Norwegians and Germans. Familysearch catalog organized them by parish register, and I cited the film number along with the register name, date, page, year, item number, etc. I didn't transcribe them. It was difficult work, going back and forth from archaic Norwegian to modern English.

Familysearch at the time had some abstracted indexes that were not tied to images; those indexes are now available at Familysearch and Ancestry in a separate database from the images.

The source of the Familysearch films is the Norwegian Digital Archive, Digitalarkivet, which has its own reference numbers but the same titles as Familysearch.

Ancestry or possibly Familysearch digitized the films and Ancestry combined the indexes into one large database. The indexes are different from Digitalarkivet's (you can't enter the same info and find the same record). Ancestry serves these up as hints, not realizing one citation is equivalent to another. Because of the difference in repositories and formats, the citations differ.

Here is a citation I wrote to Digitalarkivet assets (be kind, I was a beginner then):
"Norway, Sogn og Fjordane, Gloppen, Parish register (official) nr. A 7 (1827-1837)", browseable images, Digitalarkivet, URL https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/source/11429: 4 Dec 2007, Cathrine Olsd., no. 8, Death and burial records women 1834, page 208, viewed 12 Mar 2012, citing Statsarkivet i Bergen.

Ancestry's citation for the same record:
The National Archives of Norway-Arkivverket; Norway; Church Books 1815-1960; Reference Number: SAB/A-80101/H/Haa/Haaa/L0007
Source Information
Ancestry.com. Norway, Church Records, 1812-1938 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2020.
Original data: Kirkebøker 1812-1938, Arkivverket, Norge.

The Reference number is the accession info at Digitalarkivet, and you can locate my title at Digitalarkivet, but Ancestry doesn't give the parish name or date, and this "original data" is the entire series, not a single film.

What I would like to do is two things. One is to tie the three repositories together--Ancestry and Familysearch to Digitalarkivet. I'd like a quick, easy way to do this once I realize I have the same record in two or three places. Digitalarkivet is the source of the source but working through the Norwegian to find the source reference is more work than I want to take on.

Second, automatically (if possible) turn off hints for material I already have. I don't want to re-find someone I'm not otherwise updating.

Perhaps a key is that I'm not "done" with these films. There were many items I didn't find the first time through the films, and I read Norwegian better now, so I can't just say "done" and never look again.

Have I overthought this? What would a good workflow be?
--Barbara