* Making the Plugins Discussion Forum more useful

[Pentris]

ADDED BY MODERATOR: This topic was split off from Add GRO Source plugin (16641) which illustrates the problem discussed here.

I cannot find any of these Add GRO Source plugins within the plugin store other than a 2019 FH V6 version. The plugin store has always been the source to get plugins, not a forum trail. Has the whole system of making plugins available changed and I have missed it? or are these forum versions unofficial?

[ColeValleyGirl]

Not all authors choose to make their plugins available in the store, especially if they meet a niche need or are still undergoing development.

[Mark1834]

It is FHUG policy not to have a central plugin download location, as it would create a “second tier” Plugin Store, which is potentially confusing.

My Ancestry sync plugin is fairly mature but not appropriate for the CP-hosted Store as it requires the paid version of a competitor product. The approach I take is to create a KB page describing the process, with a link to the posting containing the latest version.

The same approach might work here once the plugins are mature and debugged. Have a KB reference along the lines of “an alternative method for data entry is currently being evaluated, and the latest versions of the plugins are available here...”

[ColeValleyGirl]

I dont see why these plugins shouldnt go in the plugin store once debugged unless the author doesnt want the workload of supporting them.

An article in the KB doesnt make sense. What would happen for the next set of similar plugins...and the next?

[Pentris]

I did post a long response but it is not showing in this thread and has dissappeared into the ether.
In essence possibly the majority of FH users are non programmers or experienced computer engineers so need a basic method and source of information.
An attachment from the forum does not download into the FH programme, unlike from the plugin store, into the correct place to use it, therefore computer knowledge is needed to move it. This makes it only useful for the minority of clever ones.
We had a good proven system for the last 12 years I have been a FH user but now that has been broken by a few developers.
I do not, and will not, trawl through a myriad of KBs and forum posts to find something that may or may not have been submitted.
If the process aint broke then don't mess with it.

[ColeValleyGirl]

I agree that the forums should only be used for a small minority of plugins once they've been tested.

Plugins being tested belong here.

[NickWalker]

Most plug-in stores have alternative plugins that carry out the same tasks. e.g. there are hundreds of calculator apps in the iphone and android plugin stores. As there are already apps in the store to deal with GRO sources there seems to be a reluctance to publish others. Is this a specific policy of Calico Pie? Would they reject plugins that appear to do the same type of task as an existing one?

[ColeValleyGirl]

Is this a specific policy of Calico Pie? Would they reject plugins that appear to do the same type of task as an existing one?

I dont believe so..

[ColeValleyGirl]

It doesnt matter how similar or otherwise one plugin is to another. It might have a better ui or be better supported or have a key featire another lacks. There are a number of plugins in the store that overlap others.

[Mark1834]

Is this a specific policy of Calico Pie? Would they reject plugins that appear to do the same type of task as an existing one?

I dont believe so..

They actively encourage it in their guidance to authors, and fully support the concept of different approaches for the same outcome. Quite right too, as all plugins will eventually become unsupported, so the more alternatives there are, the more likely they can be pickup up by somebody else when that inevitability happens...

[Normie]

I assume that some of the plugins mentioned here maybe mine.

I responded to a post for the plugin to be upgraded that did not appear to be answered. I thought that the Civil Registration Data (UK) plugin was the logical replacement in V7. As I had, for reasons explained earlier in this thread, developed a similar plugin I posted it in this thread.

I did start a thread on another plugin I had developed (probate), but concluded that there was not a natural way to offer new ideas for plugins. These threads are unlikely to read by potential new users, but may attract interest from others actively or interested in developing plugins.

The issue about authors supporting plugins in the plugin store has a ring of truth, but my main reluctance about going there is whether there is an interest and would it confuse FH Users if many similar plugins were promoted.

A second tier system, whereby users could see a list of potential plugins to explore, would be of interest.

Even if someone was interested in the plugin I posted, it is now about 3 pages back in the thread, and I guess lost for ever.

[Mark1834]

There is the Plugins planned/in progress thread pinned to the top of this section of the forum, but it’s not been contributed to for over a year and is not very visible to the average user.

I think the concept is a good one, so this type of experimental plugin is easy to find and evaluate without being lost under dozens of further discussion points (usually from the same small handful of users ).

How do we make it work?

[ColeValleyGirl]

I think the idea of a second-tier plugin store is a bad idea. It will confuse users -- two different places with two different owners who will do different (or no) safety and quality checks, with different rules for licencing, different ways of installing the plugins... Need I go on?

I also can't imagine who you think is going to run it!

[Mark1834]

I agree - but nobody was suggesting a Plugin Store II with structured admin and quality controls. All we are exploring is whether there is a better way of handling experimental plugins that aren't yet ready for the official store or are aimed at the "I think this might be an interesting approach or way of working, what do you think...?" audience.

[Normie]

If you want to encourage plugin developers, then there needs to be an effective forum to do that, at least so ideas can be exchanged.

Whether my work has any value to other user/developers can only be tested if they have the opportunity to see the plugin, try it and explore the code; I found none of that easy to achieve.

If the answer is to publish my plugins on the store, happy to do that (once I figure out how to 'log into the plugin store, to become a New Author). The risk here is that the store could soon become overloaded if we all do that.

[Mark1834]

Apply to become an author here. We need more authors, so overloading the store would be a nice problem to have .

It's a fairly painless process to submit a plugin. Log in to the authors' area, and basically just fill in the form. Full write-access to the store is limited to CP and their trusted delegates, so it remains pending until approved.

Approval is limited to checking for malicious code and broad conformance to acceptable standards of readability, etc. It is not reviewed for effectiveness - that's down to the author.

Non-trivial plugins should have some sort of help, and all authors have full read/write/delete access to their own plugin help, so can update it at any time.

[Normie]

I tried that, and was going to complete an author application form. But I was then asked to login first, and I could not work out what username/password combination to use.

This seemed to be a WordPress login, which seemed strange.

[Mark1834]

Sorry, I didn't try the link before posting, and there does seem to be a problem - login to get a password to enable you to login....

I suggest you contact CP directly by raising a support ticket. The plugin store and the FHUG KB are both Word Press sites, but it's pretty straightforward to work out what is needed once you're in. This is my home page, so it's basically following the prompts...

Plugins.PNG (52.91 KiB) Viewed 1178 times

[tatewise]

Guys ~ have you read the pages of advice on creating an account and submitting plugins?
Plugin Store > Authors Area > Submit/Update a Plugin https://pluginstore.family-historian.co ... ugin-store
1. Apply to Become a Plugin Author (if you aren’t one already)
Explains how to Apply for an Account...
Ah! I see what you mean ~ the Author application form does not work!

[ColeValleyGirl]

If the concern is that this forum isn't effective at doing what it was set up to (a place for the exchange of ideas about plugins between developers and/or users) then my sixpennorth would be to split it into subforums:

• one for support of released plugins (which will almost always be available from the store, with a few exceptions for special cases that cannot go into the store). This could include announcements of newly released plugins.
• one for discussion of plugins proposed/under development that are not ready for the store yet.

We'd need to stop topics wandering over both streams: if somebody asks for support on a plugin from the store, discussion of any alternative under development should be held in the other forum.

This way users could avoid pure development discussions unless they were interested in them; authors of released plugins could avoid their support discussions being mixed in with other discussions; and there would be an obvious venue for developers and interested users to discuss work in progress. There would of course be no onus on developers to seek input etc before releasing their plugin.

There is a third class of plugins: those that are developed as one off solutions to a particular user's problem (typically for data cleansing or transformation). They tend to be posted in the General forum and are only of interest to the user concerned; I suggest we don't need to change anything about them.

Plugins also cone up in the General forum (looking for a way to do X) and the New Wish List Requests forum, and we'd need to decide how to handle the interplay with the Plugins forum in a structured manner.

[jelv]

If you want to encourage plugin developers, then there needs to be an effective forum to do that, at least so ideas can be exchanged.

Whether my work has any value to other user/developers can only be tested if they have the opportunity to see the plugin, try it and explore the code; I found none of that easy to achieve.

I think the normal way to do that would be to start a new topic in the Plugin Discussions/viewforum.php?f=42 area of these forums. Then discussion and comments on your plugins can be kept together without some of the side tracks that have appeared in this topic.

I'm starting to try out your three CRD(UK) xxxx plugins and they do look very promising and a lot easier to use than the DEA method. I do have at least one suggestion on the Death one, so if you'd like to start a new topic with the latest versions attached I'll comment on there rather than further contaminate this topic which is supposed to be about the Add GRO Source plugin.

(Alternatively, perhaps the moderators could split the appropriate posts from this topic?)

[jelv]

If the concern is that this forum isn't effective at doing what it was set up to (a place for the exchange of ideas about plugins between developers and/or users) then my sixpennorth would be to split it into subforums:

• one for support of released plugins (which will almost always be available from the store, with a few exceptions for special cases that cannot go into the store). This could include announcements of newly released plugins.
• one for discussion of plugins proposed/under development that are not ready for the store yet.

I like this suggestion - ONE topic for each plugin (or associated group such as the three CRD(UK)... plugins being developed by Normie.

Plugins also cone up in the General forum (looking for a way to do X) and the New Wish List Requests forum, and we'd need to decide how to handle the interplay with the Plugins forum in a structured manner.

Couldn't that be simply handled by a post with a link to the plugin discussion topic?

[Mark1834]

A long career in technology development taught me one thing - if you mix up fire-fighting and innovation, it’s always innovation that suffers.

One forum for bug reporting and another for both brand new and possible scope extensions to existing plugins feels worthwhile to give a bit more structure.

[tatewise]

Guys, why is the discussion polluting this 'Add GRO Source plugin' thread even further?

No wonder users can't find useful stuff when these diversionary discussions take over a thread.

[Pentris]

Well said Mike. At least I can see that some contributors actually understand where the complexity of some threads just put off the basic users. I also appreciate that you are all now talking about the issue I raised and I thank you for that.