* Witness Disappointments

[dbnut]

I'd be grateful to be put right, get comments, or have these confirmed. They have hindered or blocked some of my experiments. Thanks!

Disappointment:
(a) Witness links to a single fact, as shown in the Facts tab, do not reveal separate instances and neither show multiplicity.
(b) Witness data is completely absent from the All tab.

Bigger Disappointment:
Apparently, witness instances in a diagram text box sort by principal fact date. Ordering in the Witness editing dialogue with multiple roles is not respected as 2nd-level sort with references like %INDI.~SHAR[1+].ROLE%.

Serious Disappointment:
From the %INDI.~SHAR… reference there is no apparent path to the principal’s Event Type (e.g. to filter or group in a diagram text box).

[ADC65]

I can see Witness events in the All tab, and they appear to show all the people marked as witnesses and also where one person has more than one role (if this is what you mean by multiplicity). I can't comment on your other points, sorry.

Adrian

[tatewise]

I will do my best to answer.

Disappointment:
(a) Witness links to a single fact, as shown in the Facts tab, do not reveal separate instances and neither show multiplicity.

I think you are talking about a single fact where the same person has multiple Roles as a Fact Witness.
Currently, in the Property Box and Reports, I think FH only displays one set of details related to any fact.

(b) Witness data is completely absent from the All tab.

The All tab only shows what is recorded in the current GEDCOM record for the current type of Property Box.
So Individual records show no Family facts such as Marriage or Divorce, only links to Family records (FAMS & FAMC).
Fact Witness tags (...SHAR.ROLE, etc) only exist in the Principal's record so nothing in the Witness's record.
( Adrian is showing the Principal's record where the Witnesses are linked. )

Bigger Disappointment:
Apparently, witness instances in a diagram text box sort by principal fact date. Ordering in the Witness editing dialogue with multiple roles is not respected as 2nd-level sort with references like %INDI.~SHAR[1+].ROLE%.

Sorry, I don't understand the objectives or the problems.
Please provide a clearer set of objectives and some sample Text Scheme Templates.
In any one Template, the looping index must be applied to every occurrence of the same data reference.
e.g. If INDI.~SHAR appears more than once, each one must have [1+]
In any one Template, the looping index can only be applied to one type of data reference.

Serious Disappointment:
From the %INDI.~SHAR… reference there is no apparent path to the principal’s Event Type (e.g. to filter or group in a diagram text box).

Try =FactLabel(%INDI.~SHAR>%) that will return Birth, Census, Death, etc.
You may find other functions useful.

[dbnut]

I can see Witness events in the All tab, and they appear to show all the people marked as witnesses

Thanks, Adrian, that did make me look a bit more carefully. But my perspective was from the witness, not the principal. For the witness they are lacking under All.

... and also where one person has more than one role (if this is what you mean by multiplicity).

Just so. Not only that, but in All you can re-order the Witness/Role. Presumably that would control ordering within the principal's reports/diagrams, but has no effect (logically) on the witness perspective.

[AdrianBruce]

I can see Witness events in the All tab, and they appear to show all the people marked as witnesses

Thanks, Adrian, that did make me look a bit more carefully. But my perspective was from the witness, not the principal. For the witness they are lacking under All. ...

Yes, that's the head-spinner. The All-tab is fundamentally a reflection of the GEDCOM and on the GEDCOM all the witness data is stored under the "event" of the principal individual (or principal family). Naturally ( ) it only appears in the one place on the GEDCOM file and therefore only on one All-tab. Obviously (or not) certain scenarios do provide access from the point of view of the witness - the one I'm thinking of is the narrative reports where one can construct a sentence to appear in the witness' report. I wanted access to the Note held against the principal's event and was scratching my head how to navigate from the witness to the principal - then someone explained that I was already on the principal's event so no navigation was necessary.

(I'm another Adrian by the way!)

[dbnut]

(a) Witness links to a single fact, as shown in the Facts tab, do not reveal separate instances and neither show multiplicity.
(b) Witness data is completely absent from the All tab.

I think you are talking about a single fact where the same person has multiple Roles as a Fact Witness.
Currently, in the Property Box and Reports, I think FH only displays one set of details related to any fact.

The All tab only shows what is recorded in the current GEDCOM record for the current type of Property Box.
So Individual records show no Family facts such as Marriage or Divorce, only links to Family records (FAMS & FAMC).
Fact Witness tags (...SHAR.ROLE, etc) only exist in the Principal's record so nothing in the Witness's record.
( Adrian is showing the Principal's record where the Witnesses are linked. )

Yes, I should have phrased that "separate Witness/Role instances", sorry, Mike.

In the Properties tab, agreed, just one "fact link" (for want of a better term) is shown, at both ends (principal & witness). In both cases, multiple roles are available in the witness edit dialogue.

In Reports i have no idea what is available, but in Diagrams the indicidual's SHAR[1+] loops all the instances (for all facts - in no particular order, but in date order within a particular fact). More in a moment.

Smart, now you've pointed it out, it does make sense the Witness All tab can't see witness roles that the principal's can. In fact, it only goes to highlight how powerful FH data references are - how indispensable!

Sorry, I don't understand the objectives or the problems.
Please provide a clearer set of objectives and some sample Text Scheme Templates.
In any one Template, the looping index must be applied to every occurrence of the same data reference.
e.g. If INDI.~SHAR appears more than once, each one must have [1+]
In any one Template, the looping index can only be applied to one type of data reference.

OK I get the looping, no trouble, don't think that was the issue after all.

Serious Disappointment:
From the %INDI.~SHAR… reference there is no apparent path to the principal’s Event Type (e.g. to filter or group in a diagram text box).

Try =FactLabel(%INDI.~SHAR>%) that will return Birth, Census, Death, etc.
You may find other functions useful.

Just what the doctor ordered, thanks! As you can see, not very fluent with references (not to mention 90% of the rest of what's in FH). And thanks to that last FactLabel pointer from you, my diagram experiment works a treat, as shown in the sample image below.

By filtering on FactLabel, it would be possible to generate the full set of "personal" census records (or rather, core details thereof) from e.g. head of household's.

The question then is how to make it a useful technique. Another topic coming, did I hear you groan?
:

Witness Diagram.png (22.76 KiB) Viewed 1209 times

[dbnut]

Yes, that's the head-spinner.
(I'm another Adrian by the way!)

Hi, Adrian, don't be so modest. I think of you as Relational Adrian.
Turns out that Mike Tate pipped you to the post.

[tatewise]

A couple of points...

The Individual Facts tab can be something of a mystery to relative newcomers.
It lists a great many Facts associated with the Individual but many may not be recorded in that Individual's record.
The bullet icon on the left of each Fact is crucial in understanding where they are recorded.
A blue bullet for this Individual record; red bullet for associated spouse Family record; grey bullet for Timeline Facts that can be in many close relatives' records; blue arrow for Fact Witnesses in the Principal's record.
FHUG KB Working with Facts for New Users gives some details but omits Fact Witnesses.

Throughout FH there are many Expressions and Templates that employ Data References and Functions.
See FHUG KB Understanding Expressions which cross-refers to both with much advice and examples.

[dbnut]

Throughout FH there are many Expressions and Templates that employ Data References and Functions.
See FHUG KB Understanding Expressions which cross-refers to both with much advice and examples.

To be sure. It's a matter of how deeply & widely the territory has been explored and how good or bad memory is.

[Woodg]

The bullet icon on the left of each Fact is crucial in understanding where they are recorded.
A blue bullet for this Individual record; red bullet for associated spouse Family record; grey bullet for Timeline Facts that can be in many close relatives' records; blue arrow for Fact Witnesses in the Principal's record.

I noticed these bullets, but they are so small on my screen I didn't notice they had different colours until you mentioned it. Is there any way to make them more prominent? I tried the Facts Menu (cog) and Property Box Menu (cog) but nothing there. But there are sooo many options in FH (and I'm not complaining about the flexibility) that I may have missed something.

Glenn

[tatewise]

No, Glenn, there is no way to increase those bullets, but there are other clues...

Presumably, the blue arrow for Fact Witnesses is clear enough to differentiate from the round bullets.

The grey bullet Timeline Facts also have a shaded background and enabled/disabled by the Show Timeline Facts button.

So that leaves blue bullet Individual Facts and red bullet Family Facts.
The only Family Facts you are likely to record are Marriage and Divorce, so you can identify them from their names.