* Existing sources Again

[E Wilcock]

I am still in trouble over existing sources.
I lump most of my census sources. That is, I have a general existing source for each UK census.
I make a new census Fact entry.
I click the plus and select existing generic souce and the pane opens, but it contains the data for the previous specific citation. The specific citation which shows up may already include the NA number and the Street address.
I fear that in altering it each time I am editing the source? And indeed this seems so. When I check the source list my 1939 source does indeed now contain the previous address detail.
I am very anxious about this, not so much for my family trees, but my big research projects.

[tatewise]

After clicking the + Add Source Citation and choosing Cite Existing Source does the window look like the screenshot below?
The Title will be a Census year but not much else in the Source Record section at the top.
It should also say how many citations are 'lumped' against this Source.

Your Citation-specific pages numbers, etc, should be added to the lower section that should start out empty as below.

What fields have you got defined in the top Source Record and the bottom Citation-specific sections?
Perhaps post a screenshot like this one.

LumpedSource.png (26.62 KiB) Viewed 3169 times

[E Wilcock]

Thank you so much Mike for this help.
I tried this with the 1841 census and it is as you say.

But if I click on UK 1939 register master source that master source now holds the address of the last family I entered. Thanks to DNA matches I have been adding 1939 register entries to my son in law's tree.

If I go back to data entered in fh6, a 1939 census entry correctly shows with the Source as 1939 German Census on line and Where within source contains the street address. That is the identifying detail I entered in the citation (although it also shows in the Fact Census entry)

Is this fh offering me the last citation complete with detail? I thought that was the case and I started to change the address each time. But I fear I was changing the master source.
The situation has got so bad, I have sometimes been entering the source in the Fact note field. Because the search function in fh will then locate the street address, regardless of field.

[tatewise]

Where does the UK 1939 Register source show the address of the last family entered? What is the name of the field?

Is it a field in the upper Source Record section? Any data here will go into the Source record ~ not what you want.
Is it a field in the lower Citation-specific Details section? Any data here goes in each separate Citation.
Maybe it is on one of the other tabs such as Text From Source?

A screenshot would really help avoid a lot of backwards and forward descriptions and questions.
See Forum Usage Tips under Attachments and Taking Screenshots if you have forgotten how.

I would expect Address details to go in the Text From Source for the Citation not the Source record.
You might have added that to the Citation tab, but without a screenshot, I don't know how you have customised your setup.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Mike, a thought. If Evelyn is using 'splitter' templates for the census by mistake, the address information *will* go in the source.

[Gowermick]

I work in a similar way, and my solution is to find the nearest source to what I want, click on it and copy the title section.
I then go to the fact I need to source, click add new generic source, then I paste the copied details into the new title box. This is a new source, so I am able to edit it without affecting the existing source!

I have a wish list request in for this, so one can create a new source based on an existing source (As FTM allows), i.e a copy as new function.

[LornaCraig]

Gowermick, Evelyn has said that she 'lumps' her sources, whereas yours is the 'splitter' method. She wants to have multiple different citations to the same source. We suspect that she may be using a 'splitter' templated source for the UK 1939 Register by mistake.

[tatewise]

Yes, Evelyn says these are lumper sources and the 1841 Census seems OK.
The UK 1939 Register is probably not setup the same as the 1841 Census but a screenshot would help.
Evelyn is talking about address details that could be entered in either the Source or the Citation Text From Source.
The former is wrong and would explain the problem, but without a screenshot, it is all guesswork.

[E Wilcock]

I have not read this thread as have been struggling to use the snip. It will not drag and drop into the box. So must try to attach it

[RS3100]

I work in a similar way, and my solution is to find the nearest source to what I want, click on it and copy the title section.
I then go to the fact I need to source, click add new generic source, then I paste the copied details into the new title box. This is a new source, so I am able to edit it without affecting the existing source!

I have a wish list request in for this, so one can create a new source based on an existing source (As FTM allows), i.e a copy as new function.

Can't you do that already? I copy existing sources using the Clone function from the Automatic Source Citations bar, and edit as required.

[LornaCraig]

Thank you Evelyn, that explains what is happening. As Helen suggested, you are using a templated source for the UK 1939 Register, but that template is designed to be a 'splitter' style source, where you have one source for every household in the Register. That is why the people and address details appear in the top section of the citation window : they are part of the source record itself, not the citation.

The 1941 census works as you expect, because it is set up as a 'lumper' source where the details all go in the citations.

Did you ever set up a 1939 Register source when you were using V6? (Perhaps not in this project, but in others?) If so, it is probably set up as a lumped source similar to your other census sources. The existence of templates in V7 has probably added to the confusion because most of the templates are designed as 'splitter' templates. I suggest creating a new generic (not templated) source for the 1939 Register. When you have done that you can run a query to find all the people who have a 1939 Register event in this project, so that you can work through them linking the new generic source to the event and recording the citation details. It may not be too much work because you say you have been entering details of the source in the Note field for the fact, so you will be able to copy the details from the Note.

[ColeValleyGirl]

I also wonder if it might be sensible to delete the source template records from Evelyn's projects to avoid confusion in future.

[E Wilcock]

Thank you for that guidance.
TMG did not have untemplated sources. So deleting the formatted ones would be deleting almost all my sources. The answer might be to return to using templated sources.

The problem seems to be that fh 7 sources are pre designated to be lumped or not lumped. That is something I have not encountered before. Because I use both. In my personal trees I started out with unlumped census sources. Only later did I begin to lump census sources. I still always use unlumped for certificates.


To be clear, in TMG I had all my family tress in separate projects, imported from Generations.
I also had a FWW database and a 2nd W W database,
When I started on WW2 I bought fh and started three new WW2 Place projects. I also imported from TMG my WW2 project which serves as the repository for any records from other locations.

Another thing I dont like on fh 7 is the hidden details when I try to view a source, that is needing to use the horizontal slidebar to view the full source entry. I have a very large wide screen on this computer and it is ridiculous that fh cant display the source data.

I am not good at working things out in the evening and I usually stop work at 7 p.m. So I am now going to leave this till tomorrow.
My feeling is that using Templated sources will solve my problem.

[LornaCraig]

Evelyn,
When you imported your projects from TMG I think you were still using FH6. That means that although your sources had been 'templated' in TMG they would have been imported as generic sources in FH. (Although they were not called 'generic' sources then, because FH 6 did not have templated sources. They were just 'sources'.)

So most of your sources as they now are in FH are generic sources. I strongly recommend that you you continue to use only generic sources in FH7 because you will be able to use them in the same way you did in FH6. Your difficulty with the 1939 Register source is that you have created it as an FH7 templated source which is designed to be a 'splitter' source.

You mentioned the problem with viewing the source details in the 'Sources for' pane in this topic Selecting an existing source (19206) and I explained that after you have moved the scroll bar to the right you should find it possible to drag the column divider and move it to the left so that the second column is much wider, as shown in my screenshot towards the end of that topic.

[E Wilcock]

Lorna.
There is no hurry to reply to this. The problem has existed since ugrade to v7.

Going back to the display problem where you suggested I drag the line to the left. I failed to manage that. The
verticle column line shows only in the data field i.e. does not reach up to the top and does not appear to be draggable. (image is below)

The family tree on which I am now working (due to my son in law John having a DNA test) was opened from TMG using fh7. It was never used in fh6. When another of my sons in law had a DNA test I brought his tree into fh6 (direct import and not via GEDCOM) and had no problem.

I sent an ancestral narrative report from John's tree to another researcher last week, it generated with formatted output in a rich text document from Word and it looked good to me including the sources.

As I said, in TMG all sources were templated and I can continue to use templated sources.

If I choose to use templated sources in this fh Project does that require me to use them in all projects? I do not want that. Because as you say my big research projects use untemplated sources.

source2021-04-10 075444.png (20.74 KiB) Viewed 2984 times

[LornaCraig]

If you start by moving the slider bar at the bottom to the right you should be able to expose the divider in the horizontal bar at the top. It is that divider that you need to drag to the left, not the vertical bar below it.

snip.JPG (28.64 KiB) Viewed 2961 times

If I choose to use templated sources in this fh Project does that require me to use them in all projects? I do not want that.

No, each project's sources are independent. You can use templated sources in some and generic in others, or even a mixture. However a mixture would make it very difficult to achieve a consistent style in reports. TMG templates don't map exactly onto FH templates so the project you imported from TMG into FH7 will not be using FH templated sources. The current problem you are having with the 1939 Register has arisen because you are trying to use an FH 'splitter' templated source as if is is a 'lumper' source. The way to resolve this problem is to create a generic source for the 1939 Register and use it exactly as you would have done in V6.

It is not necessary to use templated sources in order to use the rich text facility in V7, so I still feel you would find it much easier to stick to generic sources.

[E Wilcock]

Thank you Lorna. I will try that. I mean moving that bar.