* Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

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ColeValleyGirl
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Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 09 Dec 2020 13:37

FH7 introduces a new type of plugin: the Data Entry Assistant (DEA) -- not to be confused with the DATE Entry Assistant!

DEAs do a similar job to Ancestral Sources: starting with a Prepared Citation (another new concept), they typically automate the entry of Facts derived from a Source and the creation of Text from Source.

I have a couple ready for testing:
  • Record Birth Data (Any)
  • Record Death Data (Any)
They will work with ANY source, including generic sources, and templated sources from the Essentials and Advanced collection, and sources from custom templates.

They do not impose a particular way of working or standard of record-keeping... but those of you with highly customised workflows might find that AS7 is better for your needs; these are intended to be a very simple option for people who are either happy to take the "mainstream'' route, or are new to FH/Family History and want a quick and easy way to get on with things.

Please test if you can... and let me know if the certificates you work with need extra data gathering options.

The plugins include the facility to define your own Text from Source templates or to use one that somebody else has created.. If you want to test this, I've attached links to a few templates (eventually I'll make them attachments when the file type is supported):
-- England & Wales Birth certificate
-- England & Wales Death certificate
-- Scottish Birth certificate

Apologies for any mistakes in these! You will need to copy each template file (file extension .ftf) into

Code: Select all

C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian\Autotext for Plugins\Record Death Data (Any)
or

Code: Select all

C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian\Autotext for Plugins\Record Birth Data (Any)
(or the equivalent in your setup).

If you want to create your own template, see RECORD DEATH DATA (ANY) TOKENS FOR TEMPLATE and RECORD BIRTH DATA (ANY) TOKENS FOR TEMPLATE

I'm about to start work on the equivalents for Baptism, Burial and Marriage -- watch this space!
Attachments
Record Death Data (Any).fh_lua
(72.27 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Record Birth Data (Any).fh_lua
(62.81 KiB) Downloaded 58 times

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by Mark1834 » 15 Dec 2020 13:20

I've tried the Death version, adding a fictitious death entry to a test database, supported by a GRO Certificate.

My normal process, in both FH6 and FH7, is

1. Clone a similar source record to get some of the admin details and title style prefilled.
2. Edit with the new details. Text from Source is a plain comma-separated transcription of the main fields on the certificate. I will continue with this format in FH7, as I don't think tabulation adds any value to a single row of data, and if somebody is not familiar with what the fields are called, the image is available for full details.
3. Create a Death fact for the principal, supported by this source. Add witness (informant) details and any additional facts, such as residence, as relevant, supported by simple copy paste of the citation.

Observations on this plugin:

1. Minor example of stuck caps lock on the main template screen.
2. "Tabular" text template gave a horrible looking huge table with lots of blank entries and wasted space, while "None" didn't create any TfS at all, meaning I had to re-enter all the details. Presumably I could modify the coding to save in my existing simple format, but the vast majority of FH users (including me) would not have the knowledge or inclination to do that.
3. Even though I identified the informant as the principal's father, this did not carry across and create a witness fact.

General impressions - sorry if this sounds rather negative after all the work you have put in to create the plugin, but I just couldn't see any benefit in using it. Even allowing for the fact that I'm learning the process as I go along, it doesn't feel any quicker or any more systematic than my existing traditional approach. I think it actually makes the process slightly harder, as by creating the source first as a self-contained entity, it is relatively easy to assess the consistency of the information with what I already think I know, and create facts and citations manually. The DEA seems to be a modal form that takes over FH completely, so details can't be checked and assessed as you go along. My impression was that it wasn't helping me be any more systematic or more rigorous, I was just entering the same information in a different way. It also reduced flexibility, for example with cause of death, where I put full details in the source, but only a summary in the simple one line available for the fact record.

This might be a more philosophical rather than practical point, but I do try to keep distinct in my mind what is definitely true beyond doubt (e.g. the fact that the source says the principal died on a particular date), and my assessment of whether that statement is true and relates to the person I assign it to. This approach may blur that boundary a little. I can see the benefits in automating something like a ten person census entry, but much less so for simple event like this.

Just my opinion, and maybe those more experienced with the DEA approach will come to a different view and point out the advantages that I'm not seeing at the moment.
Mark Draper

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 15 Dec 2020 13:55

Thanks for the feedback.
"Tabular" text template gave a horrible looking huge table with lots of blank entries and wasted space, while "None" didn't create any TfS at all, meaning I had to re-enter all the details. Presumably I could modify the coding to save in my existing simple format, but the vast majority of FH users (including me) would not have the knowledge or inclination to do that.
None is intended for people who either don't want TfS, or actively want to create it themselves (perhaps copy and paste from the Internet).

'Tabular' is intended to record what data you did and didn't enter -- I don't expect it to be used a lot, but it's a better Default than None, perhaps.

Did you try with one of the other Autotext templates I provided, e.g. England and Wales Death certificate, -- or creating your own (Tools > Manage Autotext > Autotext for plugins > Select the plugin you're creating a template for.) -- for example, for the csv transcription you currently use. I'm trying to make it possible for people to use whatever Autotext suits them -- rather than dictating what they should use. No coding would be involved -- just rich text editing. If you use the Help button, you'll find details of what tokens you can include in the Autotext.

(All the above is covered in the Help).
Even though I identified the informant as the principal's father, this did not carry across and create a witness fact.
Did you identify the record for the father? Or leave the parents as 'Name only/not mentioned'? When I test with an identified father, the witness fact is created... If you can replicate the problem and provide screenshots, I'd be grateful.
by creating the source first as a self-contained entity
This is what FH does -- you would not run the DEA until you were happy with the Source record you've created; and then use the DEA to enter the information derived from the Source that's needed to create the associated facts. (The DEA tries to extract information from Templated Sources, such as the principal's name or place of death, but allows you to adjust it or provide it if it can't find it in the Source. You can check the data as often as you like before you hit the OK or Cancel buttons, and review it and tweak it again (including the quality assessment) in the Results set that is generated.

Nothing is going to suit everybody, and I already know that you don't like AS or DEAs, so it was good of you to test it. I'm interested that you say a death certificate is simple -- all the fields presented for you to edit are included in a Death certificate I've seen (English/Welsh, Scottish, Canadian, America, Australian, New Zealand). For example a Scottish birth certificate will name:
  • the deceased, with name, possiblly name and occupation of spouse and whether the spouse is deceased or not
  • date time address and place of death
  • sex and age of deceased
  • name occupation and whether they're deceased for both parents, plus maiden name for mother (Canadian death certificates also sometimes provide place of birth of the parents)
  • cause of death and who certified it
  • Informant with relationship to deceased and residence
  • Where and when registered plus registrar
Not quite so simple...
I do try to keep distinct in my mind what is definitely true beyond doubt (e.g. the fact that the source says the principal died on a particular date), and my assessment of whether that statement is true and relates to the person I assign it to
So do I -- once the DEA has run, I will use the result set to assigned individual QUAY (Assessments) to each fact -- and maybe even delete a 'fact that I disbelieve, or add a Fact Flag to mark it Rejected.

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 15 Dec 2020 14:21

P.S. "Minor example of stuck caps lock on the main template screen"

Can you point me to it exactly please -- I'm obviously blind.

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by Mark1834 » 15 Dec 2020 18:05

Helen, thanks for taking the time for a detailed reply, further comments as follows

Do a case-sensitive search for "dEATH time" in the Principal details and you'll find it!

"Death date:" doesn't autoformat as I tab out of it or click away (stays as "1jan1902" for example).

Re informant, I was crediting the DEA with more intelligence than it actually has, and assumed that by describing the informant as Father it would select that record automatically, but I can see now that it does not.

Might it be an option to suppress printing of blank fields in the table TfS? If I'm entering a 19th Century E&W example, I'm not interested in what other options may exist elsewhere.

Stilll not convinced that entering the data here then spending a lot of effort defining exactly what the DEA should do with it can ever be quicker or more systematic than entering it into the fact record or source citation directly and copying as appropriate (unless you've got a huge number of similar sources to enter), but that's just an opinion - let's see what other users report.
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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by shoshk » 15 Dec 2020 19:02

Hi Helen,

I downloaded both plugins and have started studying them.

Soon after starting to use Family Historian (TMG refugee), I wrote a plugin (which my husband named 'Sourcery') which manages just about all his data entry. It's data-driven, via templates defined for each data source he uses. Among other things, the templates define formatting for the Title, Short Title and Generic Type fields, path and format for media filenames, and data fields associated with the template, as well as calculated fields. Events, names and relations can then be specified, controlling the information entered into FH. For many sources with a transcription available online (for example, the GRO Birth Index on FindMyPast), he can create a new source with associated names, events and relations in less than a minute (cut-and-paste, a few clicks, and done). It works really well and he is quite happy with it.

But...

This is the kind of plugin which I do not expect that he will ever be able to learn to maintain on his own. If I'm out of commission, he will be out of luck.

So, I'm very interested in the new tools we have - source templates and DEAs - and trying to figure out how to incorporate them into a new version of Sourcery.

The documentation for DEAs is practically non-existent, so this isn't an easy process. Seeing examples of other people's work helps a lot. Also, I understand that you are working on a KB article. That will be greatly appreciated.

Shosh
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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 16 Dec 2020 08:05

Shosh, there's nothing special about a DEA -- it's just a plugin with a particular header which can be invoked when there's a Prepared Citation (or even when there isn't one -- see https://pluginstore.family-historian.co ... urce-media).

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by shoshk » 16 Dec 2020 08:44

OK, so if I understand what you're saying, since we have a very specific way of doing things, I will probably need to write my own data assistant.

I'm hoping that I can make use of some of the newly available tools to make things simpler.

I'm seeing a lot of sleepless nights in my future :) as I design the new version of Sourcery.

Shosh
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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 16 Dec 2020 12:26

Mark1834 wrote:
15 Dec 2020 18:05
Do a case-sensitive search for "dEATH time" in the Principal details and you'll find it!
Found, thank you, and will be fixed in the next release.
"Death date:" doesn't autoformat as I tab out of it or click away (stays as "1jan1902" for example).
I could be pedantic as say 1jan1902 is a date phrase, not a date! However, the more pedestrian truth is that the date handling is in a library module suppied with FH and I can't change it.
Re informant, I was crediting the DEA with more intelligence than it actually has, and assumed that by describing the informant as Father it would select that record automatically, but I can see now that it does not.
It's trying to cater for a number of scenarios, including people with multiple sets of parents/spouses, people with no parents/spouses (when you might or might not want to create a new family), users who only want to record the name of a relative but not create any facts for them. Rather than constrain the user, I decided that any individual for whom facts are going to be created had to be selected explicitly, not deduced (bound to be wrong!)
Might it be an option to suppress printing of blank fields in the table TfS? If I'm entering a 19th Century E&W example, I'm not interested in what other options may exist elsewhere.
It's an option to do anything you like with TfS -- make a copy of the Table's autotext and edit it; use the custom E&W death certificate autotext; or create your own table with a layout you like.

Down the line, I'll explore some simple conditional text.
Stilll not convinced that entering the data here then spending a lot of effort defining exactly what the DEA should do with it can ever be quicker or more systematic than entering it into the fact record or source citation directly
I'm not sure I understand this -- you don't need to tell the plugin what to do, just what information you've got.

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by Mark1834 » 16 Dec 2020 13:31

Apologies if it wasn't clear. What I was trying to say is whether you enter fact details directly or via a DEA plugin is purely a matter of personal preference. Neither is right or wrong, or necessarily quicker or more systematic. But what could swing it in favour of the DEA approach would be if it could produce a reasonable facsimile of the TfS details that just needed tweaking, so get away from the copy/paste required in the manual approach. That's possible with a source, custom text proforma and DEA that are designed to work together (as long as your preferred style matched that of the DEA author), but much harder to do for a generalised DEA designed to work with an arbitrary source type, unless you customised your own text template. That's what I was referring to as the potentially slow step.

As for the date, it seems to be another example of CP building more processing options into the core program than plugins or queries can replicate, as valid date phrases like that do reformat automatically elsewhere in FH. I'm a lazy typist, and always enter dates that way. :)
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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 16 Dec 2020 13:39

It doesn't take much time to produce something like this
Screenshot 2020-12-16 133604.png
Screenshot 2020-12-16 133604.png (21.18 KiB) Viewed 4035 times
Even less time to download and install it :D

But as we both know you're not the target audience -- I just worry that you'll mislead others about how much work is involved.

That date does reformat when you save the data input form, but I'd prefer if it was handled earlier.

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by Mark1834 » 16 Dec 2020 13:52

I’m not misleading anyone, just giving my opinion, same as you are. I’m sure users can make up their own minds which they prefer.
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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 16 Dec 2020 14:02

Fair enough. I presume creating a template in AS7 is about the same amount of work, but I haven't installed AS7 (don't want to inadvertently borrow the UI or features).

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Re: Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7)

Post by fhtess65 » 23 Jan 2021 18:47

Helen - I just tried out the Birth Entry and really like it! I find AS too time consuming (and, at times, confusing) for me and prefer to stay in FH only, so your plugin is fantastic :D Thanks so much. Looking forward to the others.
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