* Property Box - multiple instances in tabs?

[arthurk]

It has occurred to me that it might sometimes make data entry easier if there was an option to have multiple Property Boxes available, accessible via tabs. We commonly use tabs in browsers, spreadsheets etc, so would it be useful here?

Records to edit are currently selected in one of the Windows (Focus, Records, Diagram etc) and as the selection changes, so the Property Box changes (if pinned). This is OK if the records are for people who appear near to each other in one of the windows, but if you happen to be working on a diverse group, or with different kinds of records, it can be a bit laborious switching from one to another. Having each record's Property Box in a separate tab would make it a lot easier.

I appreciate that there are currently two semi-workarounds: (a) Recent items (but is there a limit to the number shown?); (b) Named Lists.

However, my preferred workspace is Focus Window and Property Box, where Named Lists can't be used. So as an alternative to my tabs suggestion, how about having Named Lists available when the Focus Window is in use, to offer easier navigation between different kinds of records, or unrelated people?

I'm just throwing this out for now - if reaction is positive or the idea can be refined I'll aim to submit it to Calico Pie, but sooner rather than later in case it can be included in v.7.

[tatewise]

It is better to discuss such ideas in the FH General Usage Forum first before posting here, in case there already is a solution.

Have you explored the Go Back and Go Forward white arrow buttons at the top of the Property Box?
Once you have visited the Property Box of some records of any type, those buttons quickly switch between them.
That works regardless of whether the Property Box was opened via say the Focus, Records, or Diagram window.

In other words, if you have found two Individual records and opened their Property Box in succession, then the Go Back and Go Forward buttons will toggle between them in one click just like two tabs would.

[arthurk]

It is better to discuss such ideas in the FH General Usage Forum first before posting here, in case there already is a solution.

Feel free to move this if you think appropriate. Having given this question some thought, the only solutions I could think of that come close to my idea were the ones I mentioned, so I felt this would be an enhancement to the program and appropriate for the wish list.

Have you explored the Go Back and Go Forward white arrow buttons at the top of the Property Box?
Once you have visited the Property Box of some records of any type, those buttons quickly switch between them.
That works regardless of whether the Property Box was opened via say the Focus, Records, or Diagram window.

In other words, if you have found two Individual records and opened their Property Box in succession, then the Go Back and Go Forward buttons will toggle between them in one click just like two tabs would.

Yes, I'm aware of those buttons, but the more records you're working with, the less useful they become. That's why I was wondering if there might be a way to navigate quickly between any of 5-6 records, say, in any order.

Or maybe all it would take would be for the Recent button to be permanently on a toolbar rather than one level down in Settings - and perhaps for users to be able to choose how many items are shown.

[tatewise]

I mentioned the Go Back and Go Forward buttons only because you didn't, so was not sure if you were aware.
Yes, the cog Menu > Recent > record might benefit from being more accessible, perhaps as a Recent button.
I admit that I was unaware of that Recent record feature.

[Jane]

I doubt multiple property boxes would be possible without a radical redesign as they are entry points not something to view.

Personally I use diagrams and named lists along with Query result sets when working with disparate people. Have you experimented with diagrams or charts as a home, you could add diagrams for the groups you are working with on a chart.

Another option if you have discipline to only update on a single instance is to open multiple copies of the same Project.

You are hamstringing yourself by only using the Focus Window which to a large extent is designed for beginners. Don't forget you can have lots of workspaces open for Query results and diagrams.

[arthurk]

I doubt multiple property boxes would be possible without a radical redesign as they are entry points not something to view.

I'm not a programmer so didn't know what the implications of this would be. However, this was why I raised the question, to see if it might be feasible. Maybe if I do formally submit the idea it should be about easier navigation, and I could suggest tabs as one option alongside better visibility/access to Named Lists and/or the Recent button.

Personally I use diagrams and named lists along with Query result sets when working with disparate people. Have you experimented with diagrams or charts as a home, you could add diagrams for the groups you are working with on a chart.

I seem to remember when FH first came out one of its USPs was the use of diagrams for navigation, but as I previously used programs which offer something like the Focus window, this was what I found most natural. However, I do quite often work with the Descendants view, which I suppose is part way to a diagram, and more than what I found in other programs.

Another option if you have discipline to only update on a single instance is to open multiple copies of the same Project.

It's not something I've tried, but I probably would worry about updating the wrong one. And would this work best on multiple monitors (which I don't have)?

You are hamstringing yourself by only using the Focus Window which to a large extent is designed for beginners. Don't forget you can have lots of workspaces open for Query results and diagrams.

Hmmm.... From the built-in Help: "The Focus Window is the primary workspace window" - which it also describes as "The 'hub' window of the application." I didn't pick anything up from that about it being designed for beginners or something I might grow out of.

But you make a valid point about having multiple workspaces open, and you could also have mentioned the option to tile windows. I'm not 100% happy with that, though, as I prefer to dock the Property Box rather than float it, and with just one monitor I don't have a lot of room to play with. Hence wondering if just a Named List could be shown alongside the Focus window, rather than having to tile/overlap the full Records window.

[tatewise]

The Focus Window displays a number of Individuals and each box is effectively a tab.
The Ancestors and Descendants views usually dispay the most people.
A single click on each person's box displays their Property Box docked alongside.

Imagine the same concept in a Diagram where you have more control over which people are displayed.
Each person's box is effectively a tab which when clicked displays their Property Box docked alongside.

If the people you are interested in are not closely related then other trees can be inserted into the Diagram.
So that would be like having multiple Focus Windows open side by side together.

Would that satisfy your 'tab' access requirement, or do you need it for other types of Property Box too?

[arthurk]

Thanks - considering each person's name/box in the Focus window or in a diagram as a tab is something that hadn't occurred to me, and means that what I'm asking about does to some extent already exist.

I take the point about inserting unrelated people into a diagram, but where this breaks down is if you want to deal with Places or Sources as well, for example. I know there are ways to access these on the fly from the Property box without switching to the Records window, but it's a case of click through to it, then return to where you came from - you can't keep it one click away.

The Recent button works to some extent, though it doesn't seem to me to keep more than one Source at a time; sometimes it seemed to keep two Places, sometimes only one. So might it be worth asking for this to be improved and/or configurable as to how much it saves?

Alternatively, I wonder if Named Lists might be a way forward, since they can provide quick access to any kind of record, but currently they can only be used with the Records window. Might it be worth asking for them to be available in other windows too, perhaps via a toolbar button and modeless window?

So forget about tabs for now - is there any mileage in these other ideas?

[tatewise]

I have been able to get multiple Source, Place, Media, Family and Individual records in the Recent list all at the same time, but which ones it keeps is a little eccentric.

It is not entirely clear to me why having a Named List open with other types of window is necessary.
Once the Named List is open (in the Records Window) each entry is like a tab that opens the Property Box.
Why do other types of window need to be involved?

Is it the process of adding records to the Named List that warrants it being open in other windows?

Populating the Named List from any window is not too difficult and follows a common theme...
After choosing a record in say Focus or Diagram or Query window, open its Property Box.
Click on the Go To Record button in the top toolbar (looks like a Records Window icon plus red arrow).
That opens the Records Window with record selected, so you can click Add To Current List green arrow in main toolbar.

Then you can return to the original window and choose other records ~ repeat as necessary.
The chosen Named List remains chosen throughout the process.
So you are effectively building a Named List of tabs to records.

[ColeValleyGirl]

If you have a screen that's wide enough, you can tile the Focus Window and Records List vertically, view the Named List pane, widen it to push the record list 'off screen'. You can also add in a docked property box... whose contents will change as you select an item in a list.

Screenshot 2020-07-14 13.28.15.png (130.02 KiB) Viewed 11319 times

[arthurk]

It is not entirely clear to me why having a Named List open with other types of window is necessary.
Once the Named List is open (in the Records Window) each entry is like a tab that opens the Property Box.
Why do other types of window need to be involved?

Because if I'm working on a family, it's easy to have the closely related people all visible in the Focus window or a diagram (each name performing like a tab, as you pointed out), so there doesn't seem any need to add them to a Named List as well. What I'm looking for is one-click access to other records that might be used in the same session (Places, Sources, Media etc).

Is it the process of adding records to the Named List that warrants it being open in other windows?

No - it's about easier access to them once they're in the list.

Something that made me think about this was a feature in the HTML editor I use (CSS HTML Validator) of a movable button which can be floated anywhere in the window:

ak-shell1.jpg (17 KiB) Viewed 11313 times

Click the appropriate button and it opens to an explorer-style view of files; this can be used to select and open files for editing (these obviously aren't my HTML files, but it gives you the idea):

ak-shell2.jpg (34.01 KiB) Viewed 11313 times

And I wondered if something on those lines could work with Named Lists.

[arthurk]

If you have a screen that's wide enough, you can tile the Focus Window and Records List vertically, view the Named List pane, widen it to push the record list 'off screen'. You can also add in a docked property box... whose contents will change as you select an item in a list.

Helen - thanks for the idea and screenshot. Sorry not to refer to it before, but it appeared while I was writing my post and when I'd posted mine I didn't have time to reply immediately.

In the view you show, presumably you could adjust the size of the windows? As you have it, most of the boxes have their contents truncated, and I personally would find it very difficult working like that. This was why I was wondering about something floating, as I described in my last message.

[tatewise]

Ok, with the existing features you can effectively get that arrangement.

Plan A needs a little customisation.
First use Tools > Preferences > Workspaces and set the Property Box options to be the same for each window type that you may want involved, e.g. Focus, Records and Diagram. So they would all be Docked and Open It.
That ensures that as you switch from one window to another the Property Box stays in the same state.

Open the Records Window and ensure the required Named List is displayed.
So the Records will be listed on the left, the Named List in the middle and the Property Box docked on the right.
Use Window > Tile Horizontally and the left half of screen will split between Records and Focus window.
You may need to reduce the height of one and increase the height of the other. See screenshot below.
All the windows are adjustable in height and width.
You have records in a Named List and people in the Focus Window and a click or two on any one opens their Property Box.

Much the same can be achieved with a Diagram Window sitting over the Focus Window.

Plan B
If you find the above arrangement a bit too cramped then skip the Window > Tile Horizontally command.
Then one window (Focus, Records, Diagram) will occupy all the left of the screen, with Property Box docked on right.
Any window is one click away via the Navigation pane down the left.
Another click will open any of your desired Property Boxes.
So every Property Box is only one or two clicks away, which is no more than your floating button proposal.

HorizontallyTiled.png (208.89 KiB) Viewed 11305 times

[ColeValleyGirl]

I reduced the size of the window to make the screenshot not too big and didn't fiddle too much to get an optimum layout. If you're working with a small screen, it's not a very usable layout, but if you have a decent sized screen it's very usable. Mike has suggested some tweaks, as always.

[arthurk]

OK, you've inspired me. Because lack of screen width seems to be an issue, how about this:
.

af-fhlayout.jpg (96.44 KiB) Viewed 11274 times

.
Two thoughts:
(a) sometimes when switching focus the Source Pane disappeared. I didn't manage to work out under what conditions this happened, but it's not a big deal.
(b) is there a way to preserve this workspace layout from one session to another? (Again, probably not a big deal as I don't think I'd want it all the time - but it could be useful for a user to have a few preferred layouts that they could call up easily rather than having to set it up each time.)

So after batting it round, maybe Mike was right and there are enough options already to create something that would work - and perhaps this topic could now be moved to General Usage. Thank you all for your thoughts and insight.

[ColeValleyGirl]

That looks very usable to me

Unfortunately, there's no way to save the layout, and I agree with you, it would be good. I thought I'd raised a Wish List item to save layouts, but can't find it (just as I couldn't find the topic where I'd posted a similar layout to my earlier screenshot before).

ETA: Just found where I posted a similar layout: https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic ... =25#p92114. And I promised to raise the resultant wish list items but only after V7 comes out.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Wish List Ref 568 Allow Workspace Layouts to be saved and restored that you can Vote for.

[arthurk]

Done!

[arishmell]

Populating the Named List from any window is not too difficult and follows a common theme...
After choosing a record in say Focus or Diagram or Query window, open its Property Box.
Click on the Go To Record button in the top toolbar (looks like a Records Window icon plus red arrow).
That opens the Records Window with record selected, so you can click Add To Current List green arrow in main toolbar.

Then you can return to the original window and choose other records ~ repeat as necessary.
The chosen Named List remains chosen throughout the process.
So you are effectively building a Named List of tabs to records.

I was doing exactly this yesterday. I work almost exclusively with diagrams, the Focus Window is of no interest to me. I was compiling a Named List of records to be consulted in a particular Record Office (if I ever leave the house again, I can only dream). If I select the individual on the diagram, wanting to add them to a Named List, the whole 'Open Property Box, Go To Record' stuff just gets in the way. I'd like to just click the Lists button at the top of the Diagram as I can in the Records Window, and add to the current list. Maybe the Named List panel could open alongside the diagram as it does alongside the Records Window.

[Jane]

To add a bunch of people to a Named list from a diagram or record window, select the boxes/records and then select "Edit>Add to Named List" from the menu.

[arishmell]

To add a bunch of people to a Named list from a diagram or record window, select the boxes/records and then select "Edit>Add to Named List" from the menu.

Ah, it's so easy when you know how! Thanks for the tip, Jane, I was fixated on the List button. Having the option in the Right Click menu would be good too.