* Adding sources without templates

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

Hi
The files I have on FH were all imported from Ancestry via GEDCOM and I note that all the Ancestry-generated sources and citations (such as they are) have been brought with the GEDs. I loathe Ancestry's Source/Citations, so I wonder if there's any way that I can quickly remove all of that from my files on FH in one go, and then add new ones myself.

This also leads to another question. Is it possible to add citations manually on FH, ie just paste one somewhere either to an existing fact, or when adding a new one? I tried using a template, but it doesn't seem to work as expected and to be honest, templates take about 10 times as long as if I just added them myself (if indeed that's possible). If it is indeed possible to do this, could someone explain to me how I can please?

Thanks and best wishes
Rosemary

[tatewise]

If you want to delete ALL the Source Citations, then in the Records Window select all the Source records and add them to a Name List so you can use the Delete Listed Records option. See FHUG Knowledge Base Delete One or Many Records under Deleting Many Records. However, take a Backup beforehand just in case you need to retrieve them later to use as a reference for new Source Citations.

Yes, you can add Source Citations manually or semi-automatically in various ways.
You can use the basic Generic Source Citations or Templated Source Citations.
Have you digested the FHUG Knowledge Base Sources and Citations in Version 7 (for New Users) that explains all the options.
After working through that advice you will probably have further questions to post here.

[BillH]

If you want to delete ALL the Source Citations, then in the Records Window select all the Source records and add them to a Name List so you can use the Delete Listed Records option. See FHUG Knowledge Base Delete One or Many Records under Deleting Many Records. However, take a Backup beforehand just in case you need to retrieve them later to use as a reference for new Source Citations.

Wouldn't this delete all the sources as well as the source citations?

Bill

[tatewise]

Yes, that is what the OP requested. To remove all the Ancestry Source/Citations that she loathes.

[BillH]

Sorry Mike... I misread that. I had thought it was only the citations.

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

If you want to delete ALL the Source Citations, then in the Records Window select all the Source records and add them to a Name List so you can use the Delete Listed Records option. See FHUG Knowledge Base Delete One or Many Records under Deleting Many Records. However, take a Backup beforehand just in case you need to retrieve them later to use as a reference for new Source Citations.

Hi Mike, thanks for that and I've managed to do it quite easily.

Yes, you can add Source Citations manually or semi-automatically in various ways.
You can use the basic Generic Source Citations or Templated Source Citations.
Have you digested the FHUG Knowledge Base Sources and Citations in Version 7 (for New Users) that explains all the options.
After working through that advice you will probably have further questions to post here.

Well I did read it originally and tried to do a TSC for the 1891 Census. However, it took me ages, and I'd expected it to link to the same event for other people in the same household. I filled in the table in the text bit with the names of the other people, but the table kept disappearing. It seems that if you have a household of say 7 people in any particular census, you have to fill in a form 7 times just for that one event! I couldn't find a way of linking it even to the head of the household, so it ended up being disembodied in my source box.

I am gradually building up a list of sources and citations, which I've been doing since before I bought FH, as I often type up notes for people and then add Footnotes. Basically I'd like to be able to copy and paste these footnotes into FH for each event for each person. In this way, they'll be in the same style that I generally use for citations, rather than in a style dictated to me by the software. Is there a way in which this can be done? It looks as if with the GSC you still have to fill in forms. You can imagine how many people in our families were on that census alone - maybe 100 people and therefore 100 forms to complete?

Thanks and best wishes
Rosemary

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

Sorry Mike... I misread that. I had thought it was only the citations.

No Bill , it was indeed the lot I wanted to ditch. I find that Ancestry doesn't always give the full or even correct information that I would expect to see, and also not everyone subscribes to Ancestry or any of the other, similar genealogy services.

[BillH]

Rosemary,

I'm glad you were able to get it sorted using what Mike described.

Bill

[tatewise]

Rosemary, you should never need to fill in the same form 7 times to add 7 people from one household.

The popular approach is to use the FH Source options to Prepare a Citation for that household.
All the relevant details including a link to the Census image are added to the Source record (not the Citation).
Then with Automatic Source Citations (ASC) enabled you add a Census Event and maybe an Occupation Attribute and perhaps Birth Event details to each of the 7 people. ASC automatically adds the Prepared Citation to each new fact.

Many users like to use the companion program Ancestral Sources, which simplifies the capture of the Census details tabulated much like the Census record, and automatically adds each new Census, Occupation & Birth fact with the Source Citations attached. See FHUG Knowledge Base Getting Started with Ancestral Sources, the Ancestral Sources Videos and associated articles.

I suggest you practice on the Family Historian Sample Project until you are familiar with the techniques.

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

Rosemary, you should never need to fill in the same form 7 times to add 7 people from one household.

Hi Mike, I agree, I shouldn't have to, but that was the only way that FH would let me attach the Source and Citation to everyone in the household. It totally ignored the table that I'd created in the Text from Source

The popular approach is to use the FH Source options to Prepare a Citation for that household.

This is precisely what I did, but it would only attach itself to the head of the household, and not the rest of the family that I'd typed into the Text from Source

All the relevant details including a link to the Census image are added to the Source record (not the Citation).

I didn't include a link to the Census image, although I know you can. I was just trying to get to grips with getting the information to attach itself to all members of the household.

Then with Automatic Source Citations (ASC) enabled you add a Census Event and maybe an Occupation Attribute and perhaps Birth Event details to each of the 7 people. ASC automatically adds the Prepared Citation to each new fact.

I don't understand this. I know there's an ASC thingy that you can enable that comes up at the top of the screen, but where do I add the Census Event. I thought I'd already created one for the Head of household and full details in the Text from Source box for the other people. Does this involve typing all the births and occupations again?

Many users like to use the companion program Ancestral Sources, which simplifies the capture of the Census details tabulated much like the Census record, and automatically adds each new Census, Occupation & Birth fact with the Source Citations attached. See FHUG Knowledge Base Getting Started with Ancestral Sources, the Ancestral Sources Videos and associated articles.

Yes I have already downloaded a copy and watched the video relating to censuses, but I was hoping to learn a lot more about FH before embarking upon another programme.

I suggest you practice on the Family Historian Sample Project until you are familiar with the techniques.

Unfortunately the Sample Project whilst very good at showing an end result, doesn't actually explain how I can achieve some thing like that. Also the FH help page Getting Started with Source Templates, explains what you can do, but no instructions as to how you can do these things. I was interested to see the question

Q. Can I create my own source templates?
A. Yes you can. And you can export them and share them with others if you wish to.

Sounds great, but how do i create my own? How do I export and share them?

This is the kind of brick wall I keep coming up against, and then have to make a nuisance of myself to try and get an answer. I presume there is no way of just attaching a copied and pasted citation to each event?? It really would make my life much easier.

Thanks

[BillH]

You can copy and paste citations.

Select the event on the Facts tab.
Go to the Sources For: pane and select the citation.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to copy the citation.
Go to the individual you wish to copy the citation to.
Go to their Facts tab.
Select the event.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to past the citation.

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Bill

[Little.auk]

Many users like to use the companion program Ancestral Sources, which simplifies the capture of the Census details tabulated much like the Census record, and automatically adds each new Census, Occupation & Birth fact with the Source Citations attached. See FHUG Knowledge Base Getting Started with Ancestral Sources, the Ancestral Sources Videos and associated articles.

Yes I have already downloaded a copy and watched the video relating to censuses, but I was hoping to learn a lot more about FH before embarking upon another programme.

AS is a "companion" program to FH7, although it is as you say "another programme" it reads from and writes to the FH7 project files. It is an "add-on" rather than a "plug-in", but there is an FH7 plugin to access it directly from within FH7. I find it streamlines the creation of sources and citations, giving me more time to get to grips with the complexities of FH7.

Also, because it is designed for one specific task, the learning curve is not as steep as that in FH7, and the creator Nick Walker provides excellent support. There is also an AS section in the user group forum.

[tatewise]

I don't understand this. I know there's an ASC thingy that you can enable that comes up at the top of the screen, but where do I add the Census Event. I thought I'd already created one for the Head of household and full details in the Text from Source box for the other people. Does this involve typing all the births and occupations again?

The Text From Source box in the Source record holds a transcript of the Census details usually in a table, but that does not 'magically' create any facts.

To work manually, you must open the Property Box of each of the 7 household members in turn.
Then on the Facts tab, add the Census Event, and Occupation Attribute if relevant, and perhaps Birth Event details.
For each new fact use the Add Citation button shown on the left of Bill's screenshot and choose Cite Existing Source...
Ensure you keep choosing the same Source record so that all the facts share the same Source Citation.
(The Automatic Source Citation feature automates the linking of the Source Citation but you must still add all the facts.)
With a household of 7 people that is quite a tediously repetitive process but it is worth understanding the method.

Having performed that manual process you will appreciate the efficiency of Ancestral Sources (AS).
Effectively, you transcribe the details from the Census into a tabular grid within AS.
That forms the basis of the Text From Source box transcript and AS automatically creates the Source Citation and links it to the Census Events, Occupation Attributes and Birth Event details that AS automatically creates for each of the 7 people.

You can apply any of the above processes to the Family Historian Sample Project to avoid disturbing your master Project.

I suggest you do NOT start discussing Source Templates here until you understand the fundamental processes above.

[BillH]

To work manually, you must open the Property Box of each of the 7 household members in turn.
Then on the Facts tab, add the Census Event, and Occupation Attribute if relevant, and perhaps Birth Event details.
For each new fact use the Add Citation button shown on the left of Bill's screenshot and choose Cite Existing Source...
Ensure you keep choosing the same Source record so that all the facts share the same Source Citation.

Wouldn't the cut/paste method I mentioned work better than using the Add Citation button? Wouldn't you lose any Where within source, Text from Source, and Notes information that is in the citation if you use Add citation?

Bill

[tatewise]

You are correct Bill, and after adding the Source Citation to the first fact would be a bit quicker for all the others.
However, with the recommended 'splitter' Source Citation per household the Citation fields are usually empty.

[sbell95]

Rosemary, perhaps a visual aid would help you with understanding sources and citations in FH7. In that case, I highly recommend this YouTube video (which coincidentally was created by the author of Ancestral Sources!). It is an excellent overview of how sources and citations work and might help you connect the dots between the help files and the practical “doing” in the program - https://youtu.be/jm6gg1HSbEs

Also you might consider joining Derek Heritage’s online user group which meets regularly over Zoom and helps new users come to grips with various aspects of FH. Since the group started, there is now quite the library of helpful videos going over sources (and heaps of other stuff!) - https://fhuzg.uk/

And I know Teresa (who posts here sometimes) has a blog about using FH, and she specifically has done what you are doing regarding replacing old Ancestry generated source citations with new ones. Her blog is here - https://writingmypast.wordpress.com/

[BillH]

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[BillH]

You are correct Bill, and after adding the Source Citation to the first fact would be a bit quicker for all the others.
However, with the recommended 'splitter' Source Citation per household the Citation fields are usually empty.

It is true that for censuses I don't use the Text from Source or Note fields, but I have sometimes used the Where within source field.

Bill

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

You can copy and paste citations.

Select the event on the Facts tab.
Go to the Sources For: pane and select the citation.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to copy the citation.
Go to the individual you wish to copy the citation to.
Go to their Facts tab.
Select the event.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to past the citation.


image1.jpg


Bil'

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply, but I don't know how to access the 'Sources For' pane. Below is a copy of what I get. As an example I selected Hannah's baptism, then went to the Sources bit and got what you can see here. Nothing about Sources For: and nothing that will let me paste into it. The copy and paste icons are there, but greyed out. Also it says Citation (Text:Footnote). There doesn't seem anywhere that says Sources For. There won't be any citation on FH to copy anyway, because I deleted them all. I just want to add my own citation, ie not one generated by Ancestry or FH, so I would probably copy from Word, where all my citations are being listed.

[jbtapscott]

In the example you have posted there are, as you say, no Citations / Sources associated with the Baptism Fact. At the bottom of the right hand pane there is a single "active" icon (bottom left) - when you hover over it the text says "Add Source Citation". This opens a Sources window where you can select an existing Source record or add a new one.

[tatewise]

Rosemary, that is why I said you need to use the Add Citation button at least for the first new fact.
The Sources For: details are listed at the top of that yellow pane you posted but only when they exist.

If you have used the Source > Create Generic Source Record / Prepare Citation option then that will have created a Source record and you will be able to use the Add Citation > Cite Existing Source... option to attach it to the chosen fact.
After that, the Copy & Paste Citation buttons will be enabled.

At the risk of repeating myself, experiment with the Family Historian Sample Project which already has Source Citations linked to many facts so you can use the Copy & Paste Citation buttons. It also has Source records defined that you can add to existing or new facts just to see how it works. It does not really matter which facts and sources you use as it is just an experiment to learn how they work.

BTW: It looks like you have used the Sources For: cog Menu > Display Citation As > Footnote option.
It would be better to use the cog Menu > Display Citation As > Source Record option initially so you see the title of the Source record involved.

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

To work manually, you must open the Property Box of each of the 7 household members in turn.
Then on the Facts tab, add the Census Event, and Occupation Attribute if relevant, and perhaps Birth Event details.
For each new fact use the Add Citation button shown on the left of Bill's screenshot and choose Cite Existing Source...
Ensure you keep choosing the same Source record so that all the facts share the same Source Citation.
(The Automatic Source Citation feature automates the linking of the Source Citation but you must still add all the facts.)
With a household of 7 people that is quite a tediously repetitive process but it is worth understanding the method.

Hi Mike, I've just tried this with a 6 person household and can now add the citation individually to all the others in the household. However, the Source Text, ie the transcript of the Census in question, only shows up on the Head of the House, and not on the others, which will mean having to type it all 6 times to make sure it shows on the other 5 people, so basically the same problem as I have with the 7 person household previously. Also I note from the video about sources that the names of the household members all seemed to have a hyperlink, but mine don't. Again, the video does not explain how this was achieved. Below are 3 screen shots of what I did. The bottom one shows that I've added the Source Text (with which I have no problem), the middle one shows that I have added the same Citation to the daughter of the Head of House (that's fine too), but the top one has a blank text from source. Surely if the Text was in there for the Head, then it should automatically pick it up for the other people in the household, as I have linked the same source/citation that I used for the Head. This is what I mean about having to type this Text numerous times as FH doesn't seem to pick it up for other people in the household.

I suggest you do NOT start discussing Source Templates here until you understand the fundamental processes above.

I agree, but I cannot seem to find anywhere that explains HOW these things are done. It seems to be all about WHAT you can do, rather than explaining HOW.

1911 Text disappeared.JPG (62.12 KiB) Viewed 512 times

1911 Frances.JPG (94.52 KiB) Viewed 512 times

1911 Census Sadler.JPG (84.82 KiB) Viewed 512 times

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

You can copy and paste citations.

Select the event on the Facts tab.
Go to the Sources For: pane and select the citation.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to copy the citation.
Go to the individual you wish to copy the citation to.
Go to their Facts tab.
Select the event.
Use the icon in the toolbar of the Sources For: pane to past the citation.
image1.jpg
Bill

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply, but it just doesn't seem to work! I did what you said and got to the Sources For: pane, but of course there is no citation, because I need to add one, preferably by copying and pasting. It won't let me do that. See image below. I note that it says Citation Text Footnote and Mike has said that it should say Source Record. However I don't have the option for that. I clicked on Frances' baptism and the footnote thingy came up automatically and seems I have no option to change it. Also there's nowhere that'll let me paste anything.

I'm just wondering now whether for each event for each person, I could just copy and paste the source and citation info into the notes that are attached to each event in the property box? Would there be any disadvantages to doing that? I'm not actually that bothered about transcribing everything especially as it seems a waste for time as far as the censuses are concerned. Normally I only transcribe older documents where the handwriting might be tricky to read, and I presume that kind of thing can also be put into the notes (unless there's a limit to how much text you can add??)

Frances baptism.JPG (88.47 KiB) Viewed 496 times

[tatewise]

Rosemary, I get the feeling you are not reading what we are telling you carefully enough.

To change the Citation display mode use the gearwheel cog Menu below to the right of the Add Citation button.
Use the Menu > Display Citation As > Source Record option or other options as desired.

If there are no Sources For records listed then you must use the Add Citation button to add a Source Citation.

You are adding the transcript table to the Text From Source field of the Citation, whereas you must use the Text From Source field in the Source record.
The Source record is shared by all the Facts that cite it, but each Citation is unique to each Fact.

NO, do not copy citation details into the Note box of each Fact. That is worse than filling in the same Text From Source details many times.

I am confused about whether you want a transcript or not. You start saying you are creating the transcript in the Text From Source and complain about entering it several times, then talk about putting the details into Notes, but now say you don't really need a transcript at all. Will you link an image of the Census instead? If so then it must be linked to the Source record and not the Citation.

[TheGarlickyKnitter]

Rosemary, perhaps a visual aid would help you with understanding sources and citations in FH7. In that case, I highly recommend this YouTube video (which coincidentally was created by the author of Ancestral Sources!). It is an excellent overview of how sources and citations work and might help you connect the dots between the help files and the practical “doing” in the program - https://youtu.be/jm6gg1HSbEs

Hi, and thanks for your reply. I watched it earlier and whilst I did learn some things, it didn't really tell me HOW to do things. Adding a census with all the household linked to one source and citation for example, is explained. As I've said in other posts, The source text disappears for everyone apart from the Head of Household. Also in the video, I noted that the names listed as being in the Household, had blue links, but I still have no idea how. I have manually added the Source/Citation to each of the other people, so it's not as if I created new ones for each person.

Also you might consider joining Derek Heritage’s online user group which meets regularly over Zoom and helps new users come to grips with various aspects of FH. Since the group started, there is now quite the library of helpful videos going over sources (and heaps of other stuff!) - https://fhuzg.uk/

I have heard about this, and am waiting for my daughter to set me up to use Zoom. It's a new thing for me!

And I know Teresa (who posts here sometimes) has a blog about using FH, and she specifically has done what you are doing regarding replacing old Ancestry generated source citations with new ones. Her blog is here - https://writingmypast.wordpress.com/

Thanks for the link and I'll have a look.

Thanks!