Family Historian User Group

Hi, this is my first time post. Hello to all. Please let me know if this has been asked elsewhere..I can't find any evidence though. I can quite happily take a Census (say 1891 RGx/XXXX/XX/XX and using FH4 and AS enter individuals from, say, 1 Smith Street, into the system, creating a Source and linked Image, so that all these individuals are linked between FH4 and AS. The Auto Text enters a Transription, too. Later, I discover that the people at 3 Smith Street are related and already entered in FH4. If I open up AS again and try to enter these new people and link with the same image name as title but a new Address I end up with 2 sources called 1891 RGx/XXXX/XX/XX each with separate Note/Transcriptions, one for each family group. I only want 1 source. What am I not doing right?

ID:4757

I think you are asking whether you can edit an existing census entry in Ancestral Sources and the answer is no. It isn't possible...

When you create a census record in Ancestral Sources it creates many different facts, citations, image records, a source, throughout your file. It would be a complex process (and almost impossible for many of the columns) for me to provide the facility in A.S. to reload this data back in to edit it. I'd probably spend the best part of a year developing this facility and it would be of limited benefit compared to the other developments I could do in that time (e.g support for the other source document types - baptisms, births, etc.).

It is relatively easy to copy and paste the census facts, occupations, etc. within Family Historian if you need to add them to some extra people. I've added many hundreds of census entries myself over the years and have only had to go back and edit them a handful of times and it doesn't take long in Family Historian. So if you wanted to add someone else to your census household then in Family Historian:

a) Open up the properties for one of the people who was included in the census entry (e.g. the head of household) and click on the ‘Facts' tab.

b) Select the relevant census fact

c) Now look at the icons under the list of events, you will see that the second one shows a label ‘Copy Fact. Click on this button

d) Now find the person you want to add to this census entry and again look at the Fact for them.

e) Now click on the third icon ‘Paste Fact(s)’. This will cause them to get the same census fact as the other person and they will automatically be linked to the correct source. You will need to change their age as recorded in the census.

f) If the new person also had an occupation recorded you should do the same as above only this time copying the occupation event from the head of the household for the census in question.

g) Other facts that might be added by A.S. (e.g. birth) can be dealt with in the same way.

Best wishes

Nick

Nick, any reason why they couldn't simply add as normal and then just manually append the text from source (eg copy and paste) then use the FH merge record to merge the two source records and two media records?

I'm not an experienced user of the merge facility but it sounds feasible for 'method 1' recording. There would be no need to relink the image again presumably.

A 'method 2' user would find it more tricky as they may have the census transcription recorded in each citation and the citation text from the existing entries wouldn't merge into the citation text of the new entries if I understand the merge facility correctly.

Nick

Thanks Nick, Jane.

Your instructions are clear and easy. As I'm new to all things FH4 and AS now that someone else shows me how I can see how simple things really are. Thanks. Unfortunately, and from your explanations it is obviously something that cannot be corrected, when other individuals are connected to an already established Census source the Note details, such as 'Employer, Worker or Own account: Worker' have to be either ignored or added manually, as are the Text From Source details, such as 'Name,Relation,Condition,Sex,Age,Occupation,Employ Status,Born,Infirmity
Harriet Aspinwall,Head,W,F,54,,,Ormskirk, Lancashire, England,
William Moorcroft,Grandson,S,M,7,School Child,,Aughton, Lancashire, England,' created during the AS stage.

Unless of course I am missing something, again!

Cheers, Shaun

Shaun Moorcroft said:
Unfortunately, and from your explanations it is obviously something that cannot be corrected, when other individuals are connected to an already established Census source the Note details, such as 'Employer, Worker or Own account: Worker' have to be either ignored or added manually, as are the Text From Source details, such as 'Name,Relation,Condition,Sex,Age,Occupation,Employ Status,Born,Infirmity
Harriet Aspinwall,Head,W,F,54,,,Ormskirk, Lancashire, England,
William Moorcroft,Grandson,S,M,7,School Child,,Aughton, Lancashire, England,' created during the AS stage.

Unless of course I am missing something, again!

Cheers, Shaun

No that's right - copying and pasting the fact is really useful as it copies the place, citations, references (if applicable), etc. but you you will need to manually enter the local note and also edit the source text.

Nick

Thanks Nick.

I feel satisfied with the answers offered here. Fin.

Cheers, Shaun[smile]

Hi, I don't have a problem with your original situation where there are two Census Sources linked to the same image.
They are after all two separate Census Schedules, but the Enumerator has simply entered them on the same sheet of paper.

You could differentiate such Census Sources by including the name of the Head of the household (or the Address or the Schedule number) in their Titles. Including the Head of the household in the Title is common practice, and support by the AS Census Method 1 Title Template feature.

An advantage of two Census Sources is that you can add a Link to Detail Frame to the Multimedia image to specifically focus on the Schedule of the Census Form that contains the relevant household Census details.

Just to back up what tatewise is saying...

As you were writing about wanting one source I'd concentrated on answering that without really noticing you were talking about 2 different census households. The 'usual' way to use Ancestral Sources is to have one source per household - by aiming for one source per page you'll get messy situations when households split over 2 pages. When you add the second household you just link to existing image rather than new image.

Hi Nick and Tatewise. My head is spinning. I have 2, say 1901, Census 'sheets', say Folio 118 pages 32 and 33. On 32 there are 2 schedules 184 and 186, both important to my 'tree. Schedule 186 'overlaps onto the second sheet, page 33. In FH4 I still only want each Census Source to be represented; are you saying that a single census source has to be 1 schedule, not one image (which is how I have it at the moment) and thus linked to an image. I really cannot get my head around this. And trying to work out how to have 1 source overlapping on to 2 sheets/images and work this between AS and FH4 is baffling me no end. I really need step by step help with all this, I'm afraid to say.

I added a Schedule Number column to the 1901 Census Template. And that's as far as I have got with Tatewise's suggestion. But despite this I suspect that all the work I have done so far will have to be scrapped and started again.

Help![confused]

I would certainly recommend using Ancestral Sources 'Method 1', and I would always include the name of the Head of Household in the Source Title.  Thus in this case I would use AS to create two Source records, one for each family, i.e. one for Schedule 184 and one for Schedule 186.  I would link the one relevant image (page 32) to the Source for Schedule 184, and I would link both images (pages 32 & 33) to the Source for Schedule 186.

I hope this helps.

Hi Shaun,
  I think you are trying to make this much more complicated than it needs to be[smile]

  If i am understanding you correctly you have two families appearing on the same census page, with the second family also going onto a second page. Correct ?

  If so, the simplist way to do this is as people have said, have a seperate census source for each family. Start with the first family, and create the census entry and link the image to the source. Then for the second family, again create the census source for this family. Now this is were you have a choice, you can either have a second copy of the image of the first page stored (my personal choice) and link this image copy and the 2nd pages image to this source, or you can link the exist image for the first page (and not rename it) and then just link the 2nd image.

Richard

Hi PeterR and RSellens.

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to my sad cry for help! The advice, which I'm going to follow, makes perfect sense. Shaun

Just to correct one minor misunderstanding:
I referred to the AS Census Method 1 Title Template to differentiate the two Census Sources.
This feature is found under Tools > Options then section Census settings - method 1.
Shaun mentioned the 1901 Census Template which is something completely different.
The Title Template allows you to define the structure of your FH Source Record Title.
It allows tags for fields such as {YEAR} {REF} {KEYPERSON} {ADDR} {OTHER} to be used along with plain text to format the Source Title.
My suggestion was that you use {KEYPERSON} or {ADDR} or {OTHER} to differentiate the two Source Records because {YEAR} and {REF} will be identical.
If you use {OTHER} it could contain the Schedule No.
The Title is shown on the main AS screen with Title Template values being entered automatically, but you can override them by entering your own text manually.
See the Help on this matter for more details.