* Fact set for appointments

Homeless Posts from the old forum system
Locked
avatar
duncalfa
Silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 15:31
Family Historian: None

Fact set for appointments

Post by duncalfa »

Hello, my first time on this forum but am on the rootsweb list. Been using FH for nearly 2 years, now on v.4.

I want a fact to show that someone was appointed, for example, Sergeant at Law for Cheshire in 1436, appointed to a Commission of Justices in 1437 etc. This would have to be an event, not an attribute and I cannot use 'Occupation' as his occupation is Lawyer and didn't change. I have studied the Help but cannot see how to do it.

I would also like a complete set of facts for poor law documents and can provide the information that will need different facts, but cannot do it myself! For instance, I will want to say that someone (and often a whole family) was removed from one place to another; that someone was named as the putative father of a child etc.

Anne

ID:4755
User avatar
Jane
Site Admin
Posts: 8508
Joined: 01 Nov 2002 15:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Somerset, England
Contact:

Fact set for appointments

Post by Jane »

different facts, but cannot do it myself!
I am obviously missing something, why can't you create them?

You simple create a new fact set in the fact set tool and then add the custom facts you need.
avatar
duncalfa
Silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 15:31
Family Historian: None

Fact set for appointments

Post by duncalfa »

I'm sorry, forget it. I've been trying for over an hour to create a fact for appointments and cannot get the words to come right. What I want to see is:

Thomas Duncalf was made Serjeant at Law of Chester in 1437

All I can get it to say is that he was 'appointed'.

I've read and re-read the help but cannot understand what else I can do or what I am doing wrong. There is something called a 'cause' but I cannot find an explanation of what this means.

Anne
User avatar
Jane
Site Admin
Posts: 8508
Joined: 01 Nov 2002 15:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Somerset, England
Contact:

Fact set for appointments

Post by Jane »

I would simply create a new attribute called 'Appointed' then use a sentence something like

{individual} was {label} {date} {place}

For some appointments you might need to further customize the sentence on the Fact Tab (for example you might not want to include the place for some appointments). Cause is only normally used for Deaths.
avatar
duncalfa
Silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 15:31
Family Historian: None

Fact set for appointments

Post by duncalfa »

Thanks, Jane, you gave me an idea. I substituted 'value' for 'address' and now have 'He was appointed Sergeant at Law for Cheshire on 29 May 1436'. There was no-where to put the Sergeant at Law bit except in the address space.

I'll have a go at a fact set for poor law stuff but it may take some time!

Anne
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28341
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Fact set for appointments

Post by tatewise »

I suspect you are creating an Event Fact rather than an Attribute Fact.
Do not be too concerned about whether it should strictly be an Event or an Attribute - just think of it as a Fact.
The only real difference between an Event and an Attribute apart from its name is that an Attribute is allowed to have a Value, which you can use to hold the appointment, instead of misusing the Address field.
I had the same hang-up when I started creating Facts and came to the above conclusion.
I am sure Jane will put me right if I have got it wrong.
avatar
duncalfa
Silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 15:31
Family Historian: None

Fact set for appointments

Post by duncalfa »

Many thanks. I think I'm beginning to get the hang of this at last.
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Megastar
Posts: 2090
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 21:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire
Contact:

Fact set for appointments

Post by AdrianBruce »

For the Poor Law facts, you need to think whether or not they must have a value. If they must, then set them up as custom attributes, otherwise, set them as custom events. But there are very occasional exceptions - see the 2nd example below!

If we take a fact of 'Named as father' then because we always need the value of the alleged child's name, then set this up as an attribute. I then set up a template sentence of '{individual} was named as the father of {date} {place}', which seems to get things OK.

OK - now things get a bit tricky so make sure you understand the bit above first.

If you want a fact for the place of settlement, then it's 'obvious' that it has a value (the name of the place of settlement), so it's 'obvious' that it's an attribute. Well... for once, it's not so. You see, the 'value' here is a place-name and there's already a slot for place-name with each and every fact. So you don't need a new specific value for this fact, you can just use the 'place' that's already there. And without a value, it's just an event. So, I set up an event 'Place of settlement' with a template sentence of '{individual's} place of settlement was {_place} {date}' - the underscore version of {_place} doesn't have 'in' in front of the place-name - it just sounded fractionally better.

If that was a 1-cup of coffee, then the next is a 2-cup of coffee problem. And that's your removal from X to Y. The problem is that there's only 1 place associated with a normal GEDCOM fact. Some of you will immediately say 'What about 'emigration'?' As far as I know, Simon has special coding in place for this and I don't think it's accessible from any custom fact, which must therefore have only one place-name. There are several ways to do this, but what I've just tried is to put the 'from place' in the fact's value, and the 'to place' in the fact's place. So - I set up a custom fact called 'Removal from', it has a value (the 'from place') so it's an attribute, and I gave it a template sentence of '{individual} was removed from to {_place} {date}'

Note that you could have a 'Removal to' attribute, but I just felt that it worked slightly better this way.

Don't panic - just get the ordinary custom events and custom attributes sorted first, then try the 2nd and 3rd ones above.

Incidentally - I quite like the 'appointment' attribute - I've used 'Occupation' for this - typically an occupation of 'Executor of his father's will'. But pulling the stuff out separately has merit.
avatar
duncalfa
Silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 15:31
Family Historian: None

Fact set for appointments

Post by duncalfa »

Thanks, and wow, I'll have to get my head round all of that.

I chose 'appointment' as some positions (take for example 'Mayor') are temporary and not occupations. Overseer, Churchwarden, etc. are other good examples of temporary appointments.

Regarding the place of settlement, that is a good one as it is an important bit of information that leads to other sources. I purposely didn't mention 'Settlement Certificate' as it another movement, but not necessarily from the place mentioned on the certificate. It is the place of settlement that is important. So two facts for that; moved to and place of settlement. Thanks for sorting that out for me.

Personally I would attach any bastardy documents to the child - I have warrants, certificates, recognizances and orders at present. Perhaps a linked note would serve the purpose where the father is concerned? Do I need to say 'Illegitimacy' rather than the other word???

Overseers accounts are another problem - I have 14 typed pages from one parish for Duncalfs and perhaps these are not suited to 'facts' apart from specific entries - like payment for a burial and 'took Elizabeth Duncalf to Tarvin to father her child' - I particularly like that one!

I also have one Vagrancy Pass with Examination - I suppose this could also go under Removal Order.

Apprenticeship indentures are much easier.

Hey-ho - I'll have a go when I've sorted out this bunch I'm dealing with now.
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Megastar
Posts: 2090
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 21:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire
Contact:

Fact set for appointments

Post by AdrianBruce »

duncalfa said:
Personally I would attach any bastardy documents to the child - I have warrants, certificates, recognizances and orders at present. Perhaps a linked note would serve the purpose where the father is concerned? Do I need to say 'Illegitimacy' rather than the other word???
Attach the documents to whichever end (child or father) seems most useful when you want to find them again. So a linked note between the 2 seems good, to find the other end. There is something called an Associated Person that can be used - it can be set via the 'All' tab of the property window. Unfortunately it's very difficult to see once it's in, so I tend not to bother with it.

As for which word you use - if you're referring to a specific document, then you should surely use the correct, contemporary name, thereafter it's up to you and your audience. While historians of 18th century might not blink an eye at use of the term 'bastard', for lay readers of today, maybe it packs a bit more of a punch than it had then or is necessary today?
Locked