Deleting source citations

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 22 Aug 2009 16:19

Hi all,

It's taken me a while but finally have figured out where my problem lies. When I produced a report I often got the censuses in an incorrect order but couldn't figure out why. The reason has turned out to be that sometimes a later census was entered and created a birth event, so this was of course the source for the birth.

I've created a query that shows all births so I can see which have a census as a source but if I delete that it means I lose the source of the census also. What I need if anybody can help please, is the details I need to enter into my query for the source CITATION to the birth, so that I can delete it but leaving the source still there.

Simple language please, step by step.

Best wishes and thank you
Mary

ID:3940

Post by **nsw** » 22 Aug 2009 17:21

I can't understand why you would want to delete the citation? Every item of data you record should have a source. If the census was the source that gave you the information to create the birth event then you need a citation to show this surely?

The order of citations in the report is irrelevant and it is entirely normal and correct for them to appear out of order.

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 22 Aug 2009 17:23

I am not sure why you would want to remove a correct citation, but if you change the data reference to

%INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]% this should allow you to delete the citation with out deleting the source record. Please double check this for yourself and make a backup prior to starting.

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 23 Aug 2009 07:15

The reason I want to remove them is that, for example I have a family I discovered in the 1881 census but continued researching them in previous censuses, so when I view a report I'm reading the 1881 census first, then the 1841, 1851 and so on. I find this strange when trying to make sense of their lives in chronological order.

I could change this for one family manually, but for a file of about 3,000 people I was trying to make it easier.

Using a query and including columns for the censuses I have (doing one step at a time here, I should be able to figure out the columns for the censuses) I can see at a glance which of these should have an earlier census for the birth source and amend it.

The reference I had in the Birth Source was INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1] I changed this to %INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]% as you advised but the message was 'The expression entered is not recognised as a valid tag 'address''.

Using INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1] without the % signs gives me the source, not the citation and so deletes the source completely, from the census also.

Sorry I seem pretty thick here.

Mary

margarita · Post by **margarita** » 23 Aug 2009 07:51

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but don't you just need to either:

a) change the order of the source citations in the individual's Property Box, using the up and down arrows

or

b)click Re-order-out-of-Sequence-Data on the Tools Menu

Would this not put the Census information in the right order in the report? (I don't know, as I don't use reports, but it's just a thought.)

Regards,

maggie

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 23 Aug 2009 08:09

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and I've only just discovered why. There are no out of sequence items since the birth event is the earliest. If the birth date was calculated from one of the later censuses then this is the one shown in the report as the source for the birth and so at the top of the list, to me it just reads misleading since it should be later in the life.

Thanks
Mary

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 23 Aug 2009 08:32

As Nick said earlier Source citations are shown in the order they occur in the report, so any source on a birth will show before other events. This is the normal way to show these items. As they are numbered as the page is built.

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 23 Aug 2009 08:34

Yes thank you, I did agree with that. I'm only sorry that there is no easy way around this, as I posted above.

'The reference I had in the Birth Source was INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1] I changed this to %INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]% as you advised but the message was 'The expression entered is not recognised as a valid tag 'address''.

Using INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1] without the % signs gives me the source, not the citation and so deletes the source completely, from the census also.'

Thanks
Mary

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 23 Aug 2009 09:25

I get what you mean but cant help as Im not very good at queries was looking for something similar for myself. I can see a query that gives the number of citations linked to each source but is there a query to list all sources and also the the citations it is attached to, seems to me this would serve you as much as it would me.

In other words how do you see a citation in a qauery rather than a source

Any help available from anybody on this please
crys

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 23 Aug 2009 10:37

Not sure why you are getting an error, I tested my suggestion before posting it.

If you use a Fact Query you can list all the facts for a specific source.

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 23 Aug 2009 16:19

I think I need as simple language as Mary asked for or maybe the FACT Quey you mention is in Version 4 only, I use 3.1.2. and in my drop down list of queries I have
Individual
Family
Note
Source
Repository
submitter
submission
Multimedia

No sign of any fact queries, please can you explain where to find them.
crys

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 23 Aug 2009 19:47

Sorry, Fact Queries are new to V4, they are not available in earlier versions I am afraid.

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 24 Aug 2009 08:50

Unfortunately I'm also on V3.1.2, so that answer doesn't enable me to do what I want.

Simple question - when choosing the fields (Column tab) where can I find Source Citation, rather than Source?

PS what does the % mean in that reference you gave please Jane. If it's any help the only fields I used were Name, Born and Source, chosen from the list rather than typed in - I only typed in the reference when you gave it to me, the one that didn't work.

Thanks
Mary

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 24 Aug 2009 09:44

The % enclose the data reference, there are detailed explanations of data references in the help, in the section 'Understanding Data References'

As you can see below the reference I gave you is valid

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 24 Aug 2009 12:34

Thank you Jane, it is indeed obviously valid, just that when I use it the message I get is that it isn't. Possibly it is only certain fields that it's able to be used for.

Even in your example, it would presumably only provide the source, not the citation. Seems I will have a long job to sort out each individually instead.

Thank you for trying.

Mary

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 24 Aug 2009 13:33

No it provides the citation. To access the source record you add a > on the end, which is what FH does by default when you select a source from the Left hand pane.

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 27 Aug 2009 08:35

I have been trying to duplicate the query you have shown the picture for Jane. I have begun a brand new query and get the same error message as the other user. My queries do not seem to accept the % sign.

Thing is, I checked all the queries included in the programme and also any that Ive downloaded and none of them seem to have a % sign unless its within brackets.

crys

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 27 Aug 2009 08:39

YouTube · Post by **Jane** » 27 Aug 2009 08:46

Any chance I could see that a bit bigger please.

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 27 Aug 2009 08:59

No matter, I give up, even searched the tutorial files and the only time % is mentioned apart from where it actually means percentage is using a data reference in a text box.

Must be advice given only works with the latest version not older ones.

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 27 Aug 2009 09:03

Sorry my PrtScrn produces a file too big to be accepted trying to resize.

Crystaluk · Post by **Crystaluk** » 27 Aug 2009 09:19

Started over once again and have created new query exactly the same as in your picture but without %s but the heading in the column is Birth.Source. When I attempt to delete the entry the message is
Careful! The cell(s) you have selected represent actual records - not just data within records. If you continue, 1 record (record type 'Source') will be deleted.

Sure enough the whole source is deleted - from my copy file so original is still good. Like mary I want to delete just the citation from the birth not the source itself as that is still needed for the census.

crys

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 28 Aug 2009 12:52

Crystal, I'm glad it's not just me having the problem, although it seems that not many understand why I want a report to read in chronological order, it just makes sense to me not to have to jump back and forth through the years. If a birth has a citation from a census at all it should be with the earliest census not a later one, and that isn't always the way they are collected.

I also have had no luck inserting percentage marks into the query field, I have copied the fields that Jane showed in her picture but without the %'s and I've also removed the > sign from the last one. Whichever way I use if I delete the column it deletes the whole of the source record, not the citation.

I've looked at other queries to see if I can adapt one but the nearest I can find calculates the number of citations attached to the source.

I don't suppose there is an Expression that lists the events the citations are connected to, rather than just adding them up - yes I know WHAT they add up, but from where?

Mary not alone in puzzlement

PeterR · Post by **PeterR** » 08 Sep 2009 12:08

I have FH v4.0.2 and can confirm that what Jane said above definitely works for version 4. You can define a query with a column for the Source (the FH default) and a separate column for the Source Citation:

Source:

Code: Select all

%INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]>%

Source Citation:

Code: Select all

%INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]%

and the result is as follows:

As you can see the two columns display slightly differently, and the warning when you delete an entry in the Citation column refers to a Field not a Record.

However I obviously cannot test this for version 3. But it does appear that version 3 (according to Help file and User Manual) does not use %% to enclose data references. Version 4 appears to allow you to enter a data reference for a column expression with or without the enclosing %%, but version 4 displays the %% when you click on the column.

So it might be worth trying the following expressions for version 3 (which someone else may be able to test):

Source:

Code: Select all

INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]>

Source Citation:

Code: Select all

INDI.BIRT[1].SOUR[1]

maryta · Post by **maryta** » 09 Sep 2009 08:13

Thanks a lot for taking the trouble over that Peter. I'll give it a go once more.

Mary

Family Historian User Group