* V4 Upgrade

[mnjjames]

About to order upgrade from S&N or My History, but a ittle confused about upgrade path, as it says Upgrade from V3 only. I started with FH V2, upgraded to FH V3, so will the upgrade version work for me?

ID:3659

[nsw]

Yes it will (it did for me anyway and I'd gone from 2 to 3 like you).

[goodwin2]

[confused][mad]
Long story here - bear with me.

1. I ordered on March 5th the FULL Version 4.

2.  Read all the good, bad, unsure, questions, answers, compliments, etc. re v. 4 on these posts since my order. Except for comments on areas that I will probably not use - or know how to at this point - all looked really good.

3. Then waited anxiously for delivery of my FULL VERSION 4 package.

4.  Package came today. Read the accompanied Booklet. Carefully made new directories for all v.3.1.2 files and transferred those files before attempting installation of FH FULL VERSION 4.  Did NOT transfer the 3.1.2 .exe file.

4.  Made new directory 'Family Historian V.4.'

5. Started installation.  Unfortunately, did not copy the initial message that came up.  Believe it said that if you had custom reports or custom diagrams that some action needed to be taken.  Should that have been a warning?  I had none in my v.3.1.2. but I DID check that out.

6. Contined installation of FH FULL VERSION 4.  At this point a message saying a previous version of Family Historian was on the computer and it would be updated to the new version.  In the installation of FULL VERSION 4, I saw NO options to retain the previous version.  The statement of updating was all I saw.

OK, so here I am.  Control Panel tells me that I have ONLY Family Historian 4.0 and the PDF file.  If I try to open 3.1.2 I get this message:

'The security key for this program currently stored on your system does not appear to be valid for this version of the program. Select Yes to enter a new key, or No to revert to the default setting (if any).'

That makes some sense re no v.3.1.2 as the key for v4 is likely what is seen.  

I DELIBERATELY ordered the FULL VERSION 4. The thought being if I was not totally happy with it, I could use it for researching others downloaded gedcoms that might fit into my research but no decision to merge or utilize had been made.  I had - and still have - no thought of returning FULL VERSION 4 - just keeping both options open.

I suppose I can, somehow, reinstall v. 3.1.2 - the long hard way so that I have it available also as was my original intention.  Or, maybe that is NOT possible.  Or can I just find and input the key to 3.1.2 and get that back up and running - and still have FULL VERSION 4.

To say that I am more than a bit ticked off is putting it mildly.  If I had wanted to order JUST THE UPGRADE, I would have done so.  Hopefully, I am missing something here in the initial installation that would have retained 3.1.2  If so, PULEEZE, fill me in.

I have had a number of versions of FTM and still have more than one of them on my computer - the upgrades or new versions gave me options for installing.

Before I frustrate myself further with uninstalling v.4 and trying to recapture 3.1.2, can someone send me an EASY answer to getting them both - AND - an answer to FULL VERSION 4 arbitrarily - with no options - UPGRADING?

[Jane]

You can not install V3 and V4 on the same computer. I think you will find this is detailed on Family Historian Site.

I use VMware (free) and a virtual machine to run V3.1 so I can help users on the older version.

All versions of V4 upgrade any installed V3 version. As you have discovered the security system prevents multiple installs.

[nsw]

I'm not sure what kind of benefit you think you'll get from having both versions installed. The GEDCOM produced by v4 isn't entirely compatible with v3 so it would be messy if you were swapping between them. e.g. v3 will complain about same sex relationships, won't understand the relative media file paths used by v4 projects, won't support the keywords attached to media, etc.

[arshawbrown]

I found this really annoying too. I also wanted to keep both versions so that I could roll back to V3 if necessary.

[goodwin2]

Thank you Jane for your prompt answer to the 'no more than one version' of FH.  I did just check the Family Historian website and now realize that it did say previous versions would be upgraded. My initial impetus and interest was, after having reviewed the new features on v4, I felt it would better suit how I view, input, and manipulate my data, thus my decision to purchase it.

However, I don't understand the reason for allowing only one version of FH per computer.  Normally, as in this case, I buy a full, new version of any program that I utilize regularly.  Since I originally purchased v3.1.2 legitimately and still have the full set of CDs, I see no reason that I should now not be able to continue to have it available, and usable, on the one computer that I own and use.  

Every company makes their own decisions on how they structure their new offerings, but 'kill the old legitimate version' makes no sense to me.  Would be most interested in why this is the situation here. Don't mean to overburden with questions, but I am really puzzled by this.

Again, thanks Jane.  I know you 'get them all'.

[Jane]

Most of the programs I own install over earlier versions, certainly all my Adobe products did.

As Nick says running both V3 and V4 on the same file would flag problems when moving back to V3 with a V4 file.

I suspect the move is to 'keep things simple' for the silent majority of users who just want the new version to install.

I don't know the in's and out's any more than that.

[goodwin2]

Me again - sorry.

Nick said 'I'm not sure what kind of benefit you think you'll get from having both versions installed.'

The benefit to me is to be able to review, without putting them in my prime program, gedcoms that I download that may have some relevance to my line of research. I would not need, or use, all the features of v4. Yes, I can have multiple gedcoms within v4, but prefer to keep my main working file totally separate.  While I am pretty good with specific file directories, file names, etc. it would save any possible confusion as to the 'real stuff' vs the 'possible stuff'.  

[Jane]

You can do a 'quick' open of any gedcom with V4, from the file menu select Gedcom tasks, open gedcom

[TimTreeby]

Would think the reason, apart from keeping registry simple, is because if you double click on a GEDCOM file will open up FH. How is it supoosed to know which version you want to open it with.
As only one will be default version. so you could end up opening a ver4 gedcom with ver3 or vice versa.

Tim

[justone]

Didn't want to start a new topic, but I also run into a problem installing / registering v4.

What I got. Well, FH since .. don't ask me, but I think it's 3 CDs in total by now. And each time I had to set up my system from scratch I had to go through the hole lot, sort of a Cd shifters job, since the original user and pw only worked if having installed the original + the updates.

Because of that and to let Simon get the most out of it, I descided to not purchase an update but to purchase the fill blown v4 on top.

First look ... seems to work as expected, 1 CD needed to get installed.

Since I had v3.0.5 installed with the 30day v4 trial on top, and being in mind that fancy hints were given on the FH website about what happens if on installs the trial .... I'm a bit frustrated now, since the included registration key which came with v4 unfortunatly doesn't match the required fields of the licence name and registration key window which pops up if having pressed enter key.

Now the question is .... which name to be used, or if that wouldn't work due to a differnt strategy of licence management (old one with name and key, new one with key only). What do I need to back up so that deinstalling the old v3.0.5 incl. v4 trial and reinstalling v4 from CD without having lost any of the settings ?

thanks in advance

[Jane]

Just slip install the CD over the top and you can enter the registration key from the CD. As long as you don't un-install V4 first you will be fine.

[justone]

Or this was a nice one reinstall ... normally an installer realising something's already there allow to either repair or uninstall.

But while on that topic, why the hell did it try to also install the PDF addon ? I did already wonder if there's any benefit against any other PDF printer driver. Any idea ? It would have been quite good to allow the user to install that upon request, since having upgraded to v4 I now have 3 differnt PDF printer drivers installed on my system which is surely more but needed.

Anyway, thanks for the quick hint on how to solve the licence issue.

[Jane]

FH now has tight integration to the PDF driver, from Reports etc, you can Save As a PDF rather than having to print to it.

Hence it needs it's own. I know what you mean about multiple PDF drivers, but the one with FH is quite nice and can do embedded fonts etc.

[goodwin2]

More questions before I begin to utilize my now ONLY version of FH .4.

Tim said:
'Would think the reason, apart from keeping registry simple, is because if you double click on a GEDCOM file will open up FH. How is it supoosed to know which version you want to open it with.
As only one will be default version. so you could end up opening a ver4 gedcom with ver3 or vice versa.'

Not sure I understand the above.  Whatever genealogy program I use, I start with the PROGRAM and then select the gedcom that I want to open. Haven't tried just clicking on a gedcom as I KNOW which program I want it to open in.  I thought a gedcom is a gedcom so why would a ver 4 gedcom be different from a v3 gedcom?

I know that some genealogy programs handle data differently and may not conform strictly to gedcom 5.5. standards.  FH indicates that it does.  I get an exception file every time I open a new gedcom in FH.  Some things just don't 'come over' from my Family Treemaker program, are listed as uncategorized data, are excluded and/or some explanations are given.  I see no reason why there should be a 'default version' of FH.

What advantage it is to FH or its users to 'kill off', overwrite, previous versions is beyond me.  Upgrade, enhance, modify, and improve your product is fine but if your customers want to keep their current versions and still buy your news ones, that should be AT LEAST an option.

Calico's main guru on FH questions and problems, Jane, has to jump through hoops, i.e. have a 'fake' operating system [my intepretation] so that she can have 3.1 on her machine as well as v.4. so she can continue to help those with that version. Now THAT makes absolutely no sense!

Yeah, am frustrated and puzzled by the situation and would love to really understand it so that I can get on with it and so some research.

[ChrisBowyer]

1. FH version 4 does not co-exist in the same installation with V3. That may be a pity, and perhaps it should be made more obvious when you upgrade, but that's how it is. It's not particularly unusual.

2. Most programs that open files of a particular type (e.g. Word, Excel, Acrobat, etc) allow you to open the program and then choose the file, or open the file in Windows explorer which opens the program. You can do it either way. If you really don't want this you can remove the association between the file types and the programs in Windows, but there's no particular benefit. If you have two programs capable of opening a file of any type, you have to have one as the default, and use the other by Open With. If you had 2 versions of Word installed (and I've no idea if this is possible), you would have to decide which is used when you open a .doc file. FH is no different.

3. The Gedcom standard allows for extensions to enable genealogy programs to store data with a specific meaning to them. They're all different of course. There may be things in a Gedcom file produced by FH V4 that won't be recognised by V3, or indeed by Family Treemaker, and vice versa. That doesn't mean that either is in breach of the standard.

4. Jane doesn't work for Calico Pie. She does this for fun, and to help the likes of us get the best out of her favourite genealogy program.

[goodwin2]

Thanks to Nick for expanding on, and answering some of my questions. I really appreciate it.

I am far below the technical level of most who post here but have gained a lot from this user group.  I'm sure there will be many more answers that I will find here as I 'convert' to FH 4.

Yes, I KNOW that Jane doesn't work for Calico Pie and that she does this 'just because'.  That was my point in mentioning her extra effort to help those who still have the previous version.

Re different genealogy software programs having different extensions for storing specific items and therefore the exception files I get when bringing in a gedcom not created by FH, should I assume that the Compare/Merge, etc. in FH will first convert any gedcom to FH?  Maybe that's a dumb question but I just read the chapter on it and didn't see any reference there.  Maybe it's a given.

Thanks again for your response.  Hope Jane is enjoying a few days off.  We should try not to overwhelm her when she returns.

[goodwin2]

OK, here's my last knit picking on Upgrade vs. Full NEW Version.

While, FH v.4 has many of the features of v.3.1.2 - and perhaps of other earlier versions - it is a stand alone.  Version 3.1.2 upgrade to v.4 is one thing, V 4 purchased in FULL is a different animal and should run independently on anyone's computer.

As mentioned before, I had purchased the latest version of Family Treemaker and installed in on my computer with no overwrites. It, too, is a 'stand alone'. I sent it back as its focus of changes did not provide the kinds of added capabilities that I was hoping for. I still have my earlier version RUNNING!

Nuff said, now I need to learn to write [or get help with] some more queries - and hopefully get all my 'lost in transition' data into FH 4.