Family Historian User Group

I wonder if anyone might be able to point me in the right direction in solving a mystery surounding my paternal grandmother Catherine Welsh and her first husband William Howell Williams.

I know that catherine married William on May 27th 1895 in Llangynedd, Bridgend. I have a copy of their marriage certificate.
Catherine is a spinster aged 19 and William is a bachelor aged 20.
Ive also found them on the 1901 census living in Merthyr Tydfil. William is 25, Catherine 24 and they have three children John 5, William 4, and Esther 1, I know that they then had another son Benjamin born 1902.

However I also have a second marriage certificate For Catherine Welsh which is dated 1909 and shows that Catherine Married my Grandfather George Ernest Lewis on the 13th of July 1909. However Catherines age is shown as 26. She was actualy born 30 March 1876 so she would have been 32, and George is shown as aged 25 when in fact he was born on 2nd January 1879 so he would have been 30. Catherine is also described again as a spinster, not a divorced women or a widow.



Now I do know that George and Catherine had their first of 5 children in 1904, and that George was a salvationist. They may have undergone a Salvation army 'marriage' in 1904 thought they were married but then later were told in the eyes of the law they werent so undergone a civil marriage 5 years later and then given the ages they were back in 1904. however that doesnt realy explain whty Catherine is listed as a spinster.

Ive tried to find out what happenned to William Howell Williams and discoverd that a person with that name married in cardiff in 1902. I sent of for the certificate but Williams age is now 32 My William would have been 26 or 27) and the fathers name and occupation is wrong and this William is a Baptist Minister, so I'm fairly certain its not the same person.

Ive tried finding a death for William Howell Williams but without any luck ( I searched from 1900 to 1910).

So firstly could Catherine have been Divorced from William?

If William wasnt dead presumably the marriage to George was bigamous?

and if William isnt dead , what ever happened to him?

any ideas how I can find answers?

ID:2160

I wonder if William walked out for whatever reason abandoning Catherine & her young family. She met up with George. I think I'm right in saying if William couldn't be found after 7 years he could be presumed dead so Catherine married George. Doesn't explain the age discrepancies though. Divorce wouldn't really be an option unless they were well off.
If you are certain the two Catherines are the same person, it would be a bit too much of a coincidence for there to be 2 couples of the same name marrying in the area!

Tom

David,

I take it that the 2 Catherines are definitely the same person?
I have one person on my tree who kept changing her age at every census & it eventually became clear that she was actually only just aged 14 when she got married, though the certificate in this case said 19 - her husband was 23 at the time.

Have you checked to see if William left a will? Also, did you check the overseas GRO registers?
Also, did any of the children from the 1st marriage die young - if so, check the address/informant details on the death certificate.
If the children from the 1st marriage did survive and married themselves, check the father listed on their own marriage certificates (sometimes the father is listed a deceased - though should not be taken as gospel!) and also check the names of the witnesses.

You may have to wait for the 1911 census to be searchable in a couple of years to see if it helps you to solve your problem.

My g grandfather married twice.
His 1st wife died in childbirth, and the baby died as well. a 2-year old son then died 2 weeks later, leaving him with 2 sons aged 10 & 8 and a daughter aged 4.
2 years later he then had 2 children with his housekeeper, whom he married 3 years after that. He then had another 3 children over the next 12 years. on the birth certificate of the eldest child, the housekeeper was given as the mother, but under the same surname as the father & it implied that they were married although they did not do so for another 5 years. His housekeeper has also had another daughter previously (father not registered), who was also living with her.
my g grandfather's 1st child was born in 1885 & the youngest in 1915, meaning that there are some strange generation gaps on that section of the family tree!

Jeremy

Well I'm convinced that the two catherines are indeed the same person as they both have the same Father listed (Patrick Welsh deceased).

I knew the names Christian names of my Fathers half brothers and sisters and knew that they were initialy Williams' although they later took the name of my Grandfather i;e Lewis So I'm convinced the 1901 census entry is correct.

I hadnt checked the GRO overseas Records, and hadnt even thought of looking at the first childrens wedding certificates. All of them lived well in to the 20th century and all of them married so that would be interesting to see who they list as their father. I expect as they all adopted the Lewis Surname and were known as John, Bill, Esther and Ben Lewis that it would probably show up as Goerge Lewis rather than William Williams , but its worth checking.

I know that Divorce was hard for working class people but just how hard. Was it prohibitively expensive?

I'm struggling to find any figures, David, but I think impossible is the word. More so than today even without Legal Aid. Lawyers who practised divorce law were only in big cities, so travel expenses would have been another burden apart from the apprehension of going out of the local area! Also the woman would have to prove bigamy or cruelty as well as desertion. And this in a very male dominated society.
If either of them were trades people they might turn up in local directories, or on local muster rolls. Could be worth seeing what county archives holds.
Tom

I do have a divorce in my family in 1879. The wife ran off with the lodger and they had several children together. The husband filed for divorce in 1877 and it was granted in 1879. The 1871 census shows the husband as a brickmakers labourer so I have no idea how he could have afforded the divorce but I do have the papers to prove it. Unfortunately they do no give the cost.
Both husband and wife remarried but both certificates say widow/widower.
I was just very fortunate as someone else in the family found the papers at Kew.
Hilary

I had a real family mystery too, where it appeared as if my grandfather had married two different women. Turns out they are one and the same and she was marrying bigamously! She then went on to marry a third time when my grandfather died. She used a combination of different first and last names for each certificate AND when registering the births of her children. Goodness knows what else she lied about!
Moral of story - don't always believe your certificate..
Oh, and another point, have you checked prison records for the missing first husband?
Janine