* Is it time to split the General Forum?

[mezentia]

I cannot help but notice the increasing technical nature of posts in the general forum, to the extent that, if I were a new or inexperienced user, I would be quite put off using FH at all due to its apparent complexity. As someone who has been using FH since V3, and a 50 year plus IT practioner, even I at times get quite lost in the bewildering nature of the discourse in some of the threads. May I therefore suggest that the General forum be subdivided into smaller forums say for novice, intermediate and advanced users, and even, maybe, specialist topic areas, for example use of Evidence Explained with FH?

[jimlad68]

I like the idea, and if possible great, like the one's we have, but it is the age old problem, "where do you draw the line".

[ColeValleyGirl]

it is the age old problem, "where do you draw the line".

That's my main concern -- in the KB we've allowed things to be tagged with any or all of Advanced, Intermediate and New User, because most topics span more than one skill level. That approach won't work with forums, however.

Specialist topic areas will also be hard to define -- there would be advice given in 'Use of Evidence Explained' (to take your example) that will be equally applicable to 'Using the Essentials Collection' or 'Creating and Editing Source Templates.'

In addition, the moderators spend a not inconsiderable amount of time moving topics into the correct forum -- a workload that will increase with this suggestion.

[jimlad68]

Throwing out another "possibility":
Get rid of all the sections, but use categorie(s) instead.

I've often felt that the Plugin section also has "general" implications and similar with import/export can often give me "ideas/help" with other issues. So an item that was being imported regarding sources with a query or use of plugin could be in many categories.

The categories could be added/updated by "posters" saving the administrators some work.

[ColeValleyGirl]

The categories could be added/updated by "posters" saving the administrators some work.

Including a software upgrade/complete redesign?

[jimlad68]

Including a software upgrade/complete redesign?

I long since learnt that some seemingly complex suggestions just need a small tweak or a feature turned on, and vice versa. If you don't ask/suggest you don't get.

[NickWalker]

The way that some forums get around these kinds of issues is to be able to tag a post as the "accepted answer" or "best answer" and that gets immediately shown after the initial question, with all the other posts below (including the accepted answer repeated in the place where it appeared chronologically). It may well not be an option for this forum software and it would be additional work (but perhaps not too onerous) for admins to tag what they think is the best answer. I think this would make some of the discussions less daunting.

[Gary_G]

With respect to the original post... I'm all too aware that some questions are of a distinctly "technical nature", but they are as valid a question as any other and deserve due consideration. Not everyone starts at quite the same point on the learning curve.

If I may make a suggestion or two...

I wasn't quite sure from Helen's answer whether the board has the capability of adding tags to a post's subject and permit filtering on those. If it does, that could help people find things more quickly, even whithin the existing group structure.

In addition; I would suggest that the original poster is best qualified to say whether the answers have addressed their posted question and to post a summary that could be used as a signal that issue had been addressed and the thread should be closed. Some threads, if left long enough, wander far from the original topic and make it difficult to relocate useful info. Best to start a new thread in such cases. This approach could take a load off the administrators and make it easier to find a topic and quick to see what the ultimate resolution was.

[ColeValleyGirl]

The forum software doesn't support tags, neither for classification of topics nor marking 'the best answer'/'the answer that solved the problem for the OP'/whatever.

Re topics that become overly discursive/technical, we do (as a group) have a tendency to put forward multiple solutions to many questions when one would frankly be enough (human nature in operation, combined with the fact that FH is so customisable). And because many of the people answering are techies, they tend to reach for a technical solution that often involves customisation, which can be daunting for non-techie newcomers, instead of recommending a way to exploit the product as it comes out of the box. (The age old problem: help the users to change their process rather than customise the product... but we've had that discussion elsewhere already).

[tatewise]

IMO it would be very difficult to split topics into Advanced, Intermediate, or New User classes as in the Knowledge Base.
A thread that begins with a New User discussion often evolves into an Advanced debate.
Anyway, who would make that choice? The already overworked moderators?

I have for a long time been in favour of more forums on particular subjects.
We already have Plugin Discussions, Importing and Exporting, and Ancestral Sources.
I would like to see Diagrams & Charts, Reports & Books, Searching & Querying, Sources & Citations, and Installing & Migrating which would largely mirror the Knowledge Base subjects.

I know there is the argument that some threads span Forums, but that already happens with the existing Forums.
However, it is usually possible to identify the key subject. If not then it is feasible to have the thread appear in two Forums.

[ADC65]

The TNG User Board has a similar flavour to the FHUG Board in that there is quite a mix of different levels of users asking a wide variety of questions. There are currently 14 different Forums, most of which have subforums, some with as many as 4 different sublevels. In general the board is well-run, but there is only one administrator/moderator and he certainly does not move posts from one forum to another. Some forums are so niche they are practically unused whereas one or two others are catch-alls for most questions, regardless of subject.

I believe FHUG has the right balance of forums, and although I agree with the OP about things becoming complex quickly, I don't think the person that starts a topic is necessarily going to know whether it is simple or not. Also, someone new or newish to the Board may find the extra levels confusing. I believe opening them up too far would just cause the moderators more work moving posts about.

[NickWalker]

One of the main reasons we have very long threads sometimes for beginner questions is where Person A asks a question and Person B answers it but gets something wrong or is perceived to be giving the wrong advice or there may be an alternative way to do it. So we could all just leave it at their answer, but that wouldn't be good for Person A because this may not be the best answer. So then Person C posts and explains why Person B's answer isn't quite right. Then Person B responds and explains why and maybe they argue for a while, possibly using quite technical language because they're really talking to each other rather than Person A. Then Person D and Person E jump in to try to be the voice of reason and eventually a sort of consensus is reached. So ultimately person A has an answer, but there has been a big discussion before that answer has been reached and most of that discussion can be ignored by Person A, but it can indeed look quite intimidating.

I'm not sure what the answer is to this because this seems to happen on most forums (although the 'Best Answer' method I mentioned earlier can help).

[ColeValleyGirl]

I have for a long time been in favour of more forums on particular subjects.
We already have Plugin Discussions, Importing and Exporting, and Ancestral Sources.
I would like to see Diagrams & Charts, Reports & Books, Searching & Querying, Sources & Citations, and Installing & Migrating which would largely mirror the Knowledge Base subjects.

What do you see as the benefits of this, Mike?

[tatewise]

The benefits would be the same as for the existing Forums and the Knowledge Base topics.
It should be easier for users to find discussions relevant to their problem and may even find a solution without needing to post a question.

[ColeValleyGirl]

It should be easier for users to find discussions relevant to their problem and may even find a solution without needing to post a question.

Easier than using the Search facilities?

Plus that presupposes a user knows which capability in FH contains the answer to 'How can I do X?' 'How do others do X?'

'I want to share my tree with family'. Answer could be in Diagrams and Charts, Reports & Books, or Creating a Website.

'How do I easily identify the direct paternal line? Answer could be in Diagrams and Charts, Searching & Querying.

[tatewise]

Yes, I think easier than the search facilities sometimes.

'I want to share my tree with family' may also need a Plugin but that does not detract from the benefit of a Plugin Forum.

'What are my Source Citation options?' could involve various FH features &/or Plugins &/or AS but again does not merit merging the Plugins and AS Forums into the General Usage Forum.

There will always be some topics that need the FH General Usage Forum but having other more focussed Forums would I believe be beneficial in much the same way as the KB has similar focussed topics.

[NickWalker]

I wonder if anyone else uses the forum like me. Other than the AS section (that I keep a closer eye on), I only ever view the forum via the Active Topics list, so the entire forum is presented to me in one long list and I don't really ever notice which section I'm in! I guess we all work in different ways. I can see what Mike means and I can imagine it may be useful for some people. I'd be more likely to do a search to find something, but that doesn't always work if there are no clear terms or keywords to search on.

[ColeValleyGirl]

does not merit merging the Plugins ... Forum into the General Usage Forum.

I made a proposal back in January that we should merge part of the plugins forum into the General and Importing/Exporting forums!

https://fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... 25#p133120

I wonder if anyone else uses the forum like me. Other than the AS section (that I keep a closer eye on), I only ever view the forum via the Active Topics list, so the entire forum is presented to me in one long list and I don't really ever notice which section I'm in!

I do the same, but via the Unread post link.

[harold]

I wonder if anyone else uses the forum like me. Other than the AS section (that I keep a closer eye on), I only ever view the forum via the Active Topics list, so the entire forum is presented to me in one long list and I don't really ever notice which section I'm in! I guess we all work in different ways. I can see what Mike means and I can imagine it may be useful for some people. I'd be more likely to do a search to find something, but that doesn't always work if there are no clear terms or keywords to search on.

I wonder if the way you use the forum reflects the fact that you are a seasoned user of FH. I find that I have done the same thing on other forums as I became familiar with the product. For novice users, however, that is often not the case. Having the forum divided into categories can be very helpful. While the search tool is helpful it can sometimes be difficult for a newbie to know how to formulate a productive search. The ability to scan through titles of specific organised sub-categories can be helpful with that.

We already have Plugin Discussions, Importing and Exporting, and Ancestral Sources.
I would like to see Diagrams & Charts, Reports & Books, Searching & Querying, Sources & Citations, and Installing & Migrating which would largely mirror the Knowledge Base subjects.

I like these suggestions. Not everyone uses all of the facilities of FH in the same way. For example, I rarely use Diagrams & Charts, or Reports & Books. I do make very extensive use of the other facilities. So, for me it would be convenient to have those categories separated out from the other General topics. I am sure others may have little or no interest in some of the detailed discussion on Exporting data or Source and Citations. So this type of division makes sense to me.

Despite my comments above, any change should be undertaken with care not to further burden the forum administrators.

[NickWalker]

I wonder if the way you use the forum reflects the fact that you are a seasoned user of FH. I find that I have done the same thing on other forums as I became familiar with the product. For novice users, however, that is often not the case.

I don't think it is because I'm a seasoned/experienced user (I've always used the forum this way), but it's probably because I'm visiting the site every day so I only have to catch up on a few topics. If I only visited the site every few weeks then there would be too many topics to catch up on and then I can see that it would make sense to have various categories of forum so I'd only need to look at the posts in areas that particularly interest me (I wouldn't look at posts about using the tree view in FH for example as I rarely use that).

[Gary_G]

Being new to FH7 and the FHUG board, it was incredibly difficult to formulate a query that resulted in what I needed to find. Mike and Nick can attest to the number of times they recommended articles and pages that I was unable to locate on my own. While I knew, very clearly, what I hoped to find, it didn't mean that someone had used similar keywords in their article or post. We all think about issues in a somewhat different way. The current sections of the board, although fairly general, do give a person some idea of what to expect, but I'm not sure more is better (at least for me). I also understand from Helen that the board, itself, does not support tags. However; I've previously used systems in which users have included a hashtag line in their actual posts, so that one could search on some previously admin-suggested list of tags (with explanation of their intended content). That actually worked pretty well.

[victor]

There has been a lot of technical matters mentioned and I haven't a clue about any of them so ignore them and just get on with FH as I normally do
Victor

[ColeValleyGirl]

However; I've previously used systems in which users have included a hashtag line in their actual posts, so that one could search on some previously admin-suggested list of tags (with explanation of their intended content). That actually worked pretty well.

That could work for regular participants who were accustomed to doing so. Does it work for newcomers and infrequent participants, who may not realised it's 'required', especially as the vast majority of users don't read any guidance about the forums.

[BEJ]

As a non-technical user I rely almost exclusively on the search function. When I don’t know what I don’t know, categories are not helpful in finding solutions. I begin with a combined search of both the Forum and Knowledge Base.

[JayBee]

Although I have been using Family Historian since v4, when reading the forum I now ignore questions on plug ins and ancestral sources as I do not understand them. I am still a very basic user, as I am not technically minded. I sometimes wonder why I keep upgrading!