* Sources

[Robert129]

When I started using FH many years ago I created a Source 'BMD - England' and recorded under it all Birth, Marriage and Death records where I had found the complete GRO reference which I then entered as a citation.
What I would like to do now is to separate them into 3 new sources for Birth, Marriages and Deaths elements. I have not yet decided on the name as I have the same system for BMD - New Zealand, Australia etc.
Is there an easy way in FH to do this without have to re-type all the info?
Robert

ID:5972

[Jane]

In V5 you should be able to write a script to do this, assuming you have the Type in the text of the Citation, eg Where with in Source contains Birth or Marriage or Death.

[Robert129]

Unfortunately I don't have that info in that field. Looks like a slow painstaking exercise unless a script or something can be written in the 1st field of the Source Pane which is headed 'Sources for' and chages depending what field you highlight on the Individual Record. It also has the drop down arrow at the far right.
Robert

[Jane]

I am not clear what field you do not have. In your citation I presume you have put somewhere the GRO reference for the entry, does this not include if it's birth marriage or death, as it's possible that you used a death entry to compute a birth or a marriage entry to compute a birth.

[NickWalker]

Presumably if the citation is linked to a birth event it will be a birth GRO reference, if attached to a marriage event it will be a marriage GRO reference, if attached to a death event it will be a death GRO reference.

If so then I'm sure a plug-in could be created in version 5 to do this. If you ask nicely someone might even do it for you - there are some very nice people who use this site

[tatewise]

What would help us resolve your problem is some representative examples.
On the Facts tab of the Property Box, select some representative Birth/Marriage/Death Events and tell us what your Source Citation fields usually contain.
e.g.
Sources For:
Entry Date:
Assessment:
Where within Source:
Text From Source:
Note:

Can you confirm Nick Walker's presumption?
i.e.
a) Birth Events only cite GRO Birth Refs
b) Marriage Events only cite GRO Marriage Refs
c) Death Events only cite GRO Death Refs

[Robert129]

OK. Let's take a Birth event as an example. The Source pane shows:-

Sources for: Birth*
Source: BMD England
Entry Date: 4 Nov 2011
Assessment: Promary evidence
Where within Source: Q2 1908 Worksop Vol 7b Pg 26
Text from Source: Blank
Note: Blank

This would be the same pattern for Marriages and Deaths with the only difference being the entry in the Sources for box being Marr: (to Phyllis)Marriage* and Death*.

Robert

[Robert129]

Also GRO ferences as I record them are event specific i.e. Births only do Births; Marriages for marriages and Deaths for Deaths.
It is only that they are under a Generic Source title 'BMD - England'.

[tatewise]

OK, a V5 Plugin to change every Fact as follows would be quite straightforward.
Each Birth Event that cites BMD England Source to cite say Birth England instead.
Each Marriage Event that cites BMD England Source to cite say Marriage England instead.
Each Death Event that cites BMD England Source to cite say Death England instead.

Would any details from the BMD England Source need to be copied to the new Sources?

[tatewise]

I have written a V5 Plugin that should do the job automatically.

It works by scanning all Events in both Individual and Family records.
When it finds a Birth, Marriage, or Death Event it checks if there is a Source cited.
(Currently it only checks the 1st Source cited, but if you have multiple citations that can be added.)

The first time such a Source is encountered for say a Birth Event, it creates a new Source.
All the primary fields in the old Source are copied to the new Source.
Except that the full Title &/or Short Title have ' - Birth' appended.
So 'BMD England' would become 'BMD England - Birth'.
Also the new Source Type will be set to Birth.
This new Source then replaces the old Source in the Birth Event citation.

The same technique is used for Marriage Events by appending ' - Marriage', and for Death Events by appending ' - Death'.
Also the Source Type will be set accordingly.

Any subsequent BMD Event that cites a previously processed old Source will have the new Source substituted.

The old Source Records are not deleted, they just won't be cited by any Events.
(You can delete them yourself when satisfied with the results.)

You can easily amend the new Source Records, since there will be so few.
If the Title or fields are not quite correct, then just edit them by hand.
If there are any standard changes you want then just ask.
e.g.
You might prefer 'BMD' in the Title to be replaced by 'Birth' or 'Marriage' or 'Death'.
But this would only work for old Source Records that include 'BMD' in their Title.
Others would be changed as described earlier.

As a matter of interest, what has prompted your change of approach?
Why not go the whole hog, and have a Source per Event?
Then you can add a Multimedia image of the BMD Certificate to the Source, plus transcript, GRO Index, etc.

[NickWalker]

tatewise said:
As a matter of interest, what has prompted your change of approach?
Why not go the whole hog, and have a Source per Event?
Then you can add a Multimedia image of the BMD Certificate to the Source, plus transcript, GRO Index, etc.

Personally I think it's not a bad strategy to have just the single source when all you have is a GRO reference but once you have a certificate or parish record entry then I'd agree - create a source for it.

Nick

[johnmorrisoniom]

Mike,
Will your plugin be able to cope where I want to change a source from Source A, to Source B (Both of which already exist).
I use method 2 recording, but my earlier GRO sources  covered BM&D, now I have  a separate source for each type.

Original source is X Free BMD (I put X at the front so I don't accidentally use it.)

New Sources are
Free BMD Births
Free BMD Marriages
Free BMD Deaths

John Morrison

[tatewise]

John, yes - it could be tweaked to do that I guess.
Note that it would replace every Birth Event citation of X Free BMD with Free BMD Births,
and every Marriage Event citation of X Free BMD with Free BMD Marriages,
and every  Death Event citation of X Free BMD with Free BMD Deaths.

[johnmorrisoniom]

Thanks Mike,
That exactly what I want to do.

Regards

John Morrison

[Robert129]

Mike
Thank you for your reply and that should save a lot of hard work.
The reason behind my approach was reading an article on adding an expression to a Diagram Box which if I understood correctly could then automatically add the appropriate Icon to a diagram.
So for example if I created a new Birth record FH would recognise it as such and then add the appropriate Birth icon to the diagram much as AS does when you add a Census record.
To do this I thought it would be necessary to separte the 3 elements of BMD into individual sources so that the appropriate expression could be written.
Is that correct?
Robert

[tatewise]

With FH V4 you can use a Box Condition to set an Icon depending on an Expression.
The Expression can be a Data Reference that tests if a Fact such as Birth has a Source.
It does not necessarily matter what Source exists, the Icon may just depend on the Fact such as Birth.

See Using Flags and Icons for more details.
e.g.
%INDI.BIRT.SOUR>% will identify any Birth Event with any Source Citation.

[Robert129]

Thanks Mike.

However when I add the suitable expression for Birth; Marriage and Death I get duplicate icons on my diagram.
Previously I always used to add the appropriate icon from the All tab of the Individual record; right click on the individuals name; select 'Set Flag' and choose the appropiate one.
What have I missed?
Robert

[tatewise]

I assumed that what you want to achieve on your Diagram Boxes is:
1) a Birth Icon if the Individual has a Birth Event with a Source Citation.
2) a Marriage Icon if the Individual has a Marriage Event with a Source Citation.
3) a Death Icon if the Individual has a Death Event with a Source Citation.

You say

Previously I always used to add the appropriate icon from the All tab of the Individual record

but that process adds a Flag to an Individual Record.
It only affects Diagram Box Icons if you have a Boxes tab Condition for a Record Flag with a matching Flag: tab.
If you have both that, and a Condition for an Expression such as %INDI.BIRT.SOUR>%, then both will yield an Icon.

The point about using Expressions is that you can dispense with Flags and the Record Flag Condition.
I had hoped the Using Flags and Icons article would make that clear, but maybe needs more explanation.

Or am I trying to solve the wrong problem for you?
Can you perhaps explain what you want to achieve on your Diagram Boxes.

[Robert129]

Mike
I think we are in the same ballpark.
In the Boxes tab of the Diagram Options I have under 'Condition'; 'Record Flag' then Flags/Icons for all Events:- Birth; Christening; Twins; Triplets; Marriages; Deaths; War Dead; and all the English & Scottish Census from 1841 to 1911.
When I use AS to enter a British Census the appropriate Icon appears in the diagram under the individual(s)and the Source/Citation is also added.Also under the All tab of the individual record the appropriate Flag description is added at the end under 'Flags'i.e. 1881 UK Census.
If I enter a Birth GRO reference at present I have to manually add the Birth Flag/Icon to the individual for it to show ina diagram under the individual.
I want that process to happen automatically with the Flag/Icon appearing in the diagram and the appropriate 'Flag identification' appearing in the Individuals record under the All tab at the very end of the list.
From what I experimented with expressions the flag appeared in the diagram but the descriptive note did not appear under the all tab.
Robert

[tatewise]

At the risk of repeating myself Flags and Icons are two different features.

The reason they appear coupled in your case is that your Diagram Options have Boxes with a Condition of Record Flag that specifies Icons.
Thus, when you add a Flag to an Individual Record, and there is a matching Record Flag Condition, then an associated Icon appears on the Diagram Box for that Individual.

Try the following:
1) Add a Flag that has NO matching Record Flag tab defined ~ NO Icon will appear.
2) Edit Features for any Record Flag tab, so it affects anything except an Icon ~ NO Icon will appear but the other box feature will change with the Flag.

Defining Boxes with a Condition of Expression, allows Icons (or other Box Features) to appear, without needing to set Flags on Individual Records.

If you have been setting Flags in order to create Icons, then you can remove all the Flags, and just use Boxes > Condition > Expressions instead.
(The same goes for Flag Filters in Queries, and Flag Columns in the Record Window ~ Expressions will do a better job.)
The advantage is that you never have to bother with setting Flags ever again.
Simply add a Birth Event with a Source Citation and ~ hey presto ~ the Birth Icon appears on the Diagram for the associated Individual Box.

There are a few exceptions, where Boxes > Condition > Expressions might be too complex.
You mentioned Twins, Triplets, War Dead, and all the English & Scottish Census from 1841 to 1911.
Although it might be possible to create Expressions for these, it is probably easier to stick with Flags and Record Flag Conditions.
Adding Flags for the occasional Twins or Triplets is not onerous.
Ancestral Sources does the job for you with all Census Events.
If you have a specific Fact that identifies War Dead then use a Boxes > Condition > Expression otherwise stick with a Flag.

[Robert129]

Mike
I apologise if I am using the wrong name at times but it is slightly confusing when the 2 words are used in the same sentence as per the following in your reply.

'The reason they appear coupled in your case is that your Diagram Options have Boxes with a Condition of Record Flag that specifies Icons.'

So if I change from using 'Record Flags' with associated 'Feature' of 'Icon' and delete those 'Conditions' and use expressions instead. Then if I understand you correctly when I enter say a Birth event with the appropriate Source an Icon of say 'B' will appear beneath the individual box on a diagram.

Finally can you confirm that using 'Expressions' will then fill the last field titled 'Flag' under the 'All' tab of the 'Individula Record' with 'Birth'?

AS does this automatically when a Census is added as well as adding the 'Icon' under the diagram box.

Robert

[tatewise]

Yes, it is the special Record Flag Condition that links a Flag to an Icon (or any other Box Feature that does not have to be an Icon).
What else would it be called, since it conditionally uses a Record Flag on an Individual Record to display a Box Feature (maybe an Icon on a Diagram Box).

A particular Flag can exist on Records without an Icon on a Diagram.
An Icon can appear on a Diagram for other Conditions than Flags.

It is a bit like Individual Records are linked to Source Records via a Citation, but Individual Records are quite different from Source Records.
Flags can be linked to Icons via a Record Flag Condition, but they are two separate entities.

Almost everything mention in your last posting is correct, except

using 'Expressions' will then fill the last field titled 'Flag' under the 'All' tab of the 'Individual Record' with 'Birth'

No the Flag will NOT be assigned to the Individual Record.
What purpose would that serve?
Do you use such Flags for anything?

Yes, AS adds Flags to Individuals for Census Events, but AS does NOT add the Icons.
You have chosen to add the Icons by using a Record Flag Condition for those Flags.

Every time a new Census Year is published you would have assigned a new Named Flag in AS.
Then you would have added that Named Flag to a tab on the Record Flag Condition.
These Record Flag Condition tabs must be retained for Census Flags to remain coupled to Census Icons.

All this assumes you have a different Named Flag for each Census Year.
If you have the same Named Flag for all Census Events then a simple Condition Expression will suffice and you can dispense with Census Flags too.

[Robert129]

Mike

Thank you very much for all your help and guidance throughout this matter. I look forward to V5 to try the Plug In facility and your workaround.
Also for your assistance and help on 'Flags' and 'Icons'.
Robert

[Robert129]

Mike

I have now entered the appropriate expressions and all works well.

I have 1 issue however in that if I have an additional source for a Birth record say for example if I downloaded or entered information I would have set up an 'Automatic Source Citation' and that Source appears as a Birth, Marriage or Death - then an Icon appears.

Can I amend the Expression so that the appropriate Icon will only appear for my appropriate GRO Source and none other?

Robert

[tatewise]

Yes, use the following Expression:
=ContainsText(%INDI.BIRT.SOUR>TITL%,'BMD - England',STD)

This checks that the first Birth Citation refers to a Source Record with a Title/Name of BMD - England (or whatever Title/Name you want).

( If you use the Short Title then use ABBR in place of TITL )

Note that for this to work your BMD - England Source Citation MUST be the first one listed in the yellow Sources Pane.