Family Historian User Group

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 13:52**

Not sure if this has been requested before, but I would like to request a 'Sort Date', a non-printing date which would allow the user to sort events in the way he or she wants. For example, I have a number of individuals whose date of death is not known. Using a sort date would allow the death event to be placed at the bottom of the Facts list.

Also, for individuals who had the same occupation throughout their working lives I would like to have one reference for occupation (rather than one for each census etc)positioned just above the death event.

ID:7023

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 14:50**

In v5 each standard fact is associated with a 'time frame', so you should find that a death event without a date is always listed after all life events (but before burial/cremation and probate) without the need for a dummy 'sort date'.

If you want to have just one occupation for an individual you can do so. Its associated time frame will ensure that it is listed between birth and death, and you have some control over its position in the facts list by using the up/down arrows in the All tab of the Property box. However if undated it will still be listed before any family events in the Facts tab.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 15:47**

Lorna
An undated death event isn't always listed after all life events, unless I'm doing something wrong. Please see screenshot.

I realize I can position an occupation to some extent, but it would be nice to position it just where I want it.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 16:28**

When the List in Record Order button is pressed in, as shown above, Family events are useually shown after Individual events; I expect you know that you can untick the menu option to Show Birth/Adoption of Children.

Have you tried clicking the Date column heading?

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 16:35**

Dave, you have clicked the List in Record Order button (right of the Show Media camera icon).
This lists Facts first by Record type and then in order within each Record as follows.
1) • blue dot Individual Record Facts
2) • red dot Family Record Facts
3) • silver dot children Individual Record Facts

Click on the Date column heading and the Facts will be listed in Date and Time Frame order.
Your Died event will then be last, unless there are any Post-Death Facts.

When List in Record Order is selected, you can re-order Facts of the same Record type by using the Move Up/Down buttons.

You could create a Lifetime Occupation Attribute with a Time Frame of Death.
This would always be listed next to the Died event and can be permanently positioned just before it by using the Move Up/Down buttons.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 16:56**

Peter and Mike

Thanks for your replies. I have clicked on the date column heading and here's the result:

All that seems to have happened is that the death event has been swapped with the marriage event.

But irrespective of any solutions to this, wouldn't it be simpler to have a sort date? I would guess it would be relatively simple to implement, and would make sorting the facts list must easier.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 17:00**

You could already do that if you wanted to just put a phrase in the death Fact and add an interpreted value in a well on the date helper, or just add an After Date in the death fact.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 17:30**

The problem with implementing a Sort Date is that there is no GEDCOM field for it, and so would require a custom FH field, which would not export to other software.

Regarding the Facts tab sort by Date problem, I had forgotten about that quirk.
The workaround is to enter any Individual Fact with a Date that is after the last child Birth event.
Then the undated Facts are sorted correctly.

I reported this quirk to Calico Pie in January 2013:

In the Property Box on the Facts tab, most Facts correctly observe the Normal Time Frame order even when no Date is entered. i.e. Birth Facts precede Life Facts precede Death Facts precede Post-Death Facts.

The Problem:
The exception is the silver bullet Birth of son/daughter Facts that are listed after all other Facts with no Date, even Death and Post-Death Facts, unless a Fact post-Dates one of the Births.
If Birth of son/daughter Facts have no Date, then they are even listed after Death and Post-Death Facts that have a Date.

The Solution:
These Birth of son/daughter Facts should be treated as if their Normal Time Frame is either Life or perhaps Post-Marriage, such that when any Fact has no Date it is listed in a more rational order, and those with no Date can be re-ordered on the All tab as normal.

Calico Pie replied:

Thank you for pointing that out. We've logged it and will look into it.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 18:11**

Jane and Mike

Thanks for your help. I'll try what you suggest Jane. Mike, it's good to know it is a known problem.

As an aside Mike, Roots Magic uses a Sort Date, which I think is a great feature, although I much prefer FH, the best family history software on the market in my opinion.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 18:50**

Roots Magic may do that, but is it exportable?

As Jane said, it is almost inconceivable that it is not possible to enter some sort of Date, especially when there are other known Facts with a Date.
Use a Date Range with Before or After the known Date.
e.g.
In your example, you know that James must have Died after his daughter's Birth, so use After Dec 1850.
Use the same Date for his Occupation.
Then these Facts will be listed last.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 19:39**

tatewise said:

In your example, you know that James must have Died after his daughter's Birth, so use After Dec 1850.

Just a small point: a father could have died up to 9 months before his child's birth. In this example I would omit the month when entering the date, to avoid misleading precision (assuming nothing else is known, from the child's birth/baptism record). Ideally it should be 'After 1849' but then the death would be listed before the child's birth, which again may be misleading.

Posted: **31 Jul 2013 20:04**

Agreed Lorna, but if he was the Informant on the Birth Certificate then After the Date of Registration can be used.
Alternatively, add a Note to explain he could have died 9 months earlier.

[EDIT 2016: Already in Wish List as Ref 55 Individual and Family Facts Merged Timeline with a date for sorting facts.]