* Plain Text Only setting

[ColeValleyGirl]

So whichever default is set in Preferences there will need to be an option in the opened window to change mode.

Yes.

The Wish List proposes: "The Rich Text Editor window needs an option to convert to unformatted plain text."
Would that satisfy your requirement? The pop-up window would always be the Rich Text editor but choosing the plain text option would reduce it to the FH V6 style plain text editor box. Any text already in the field gets converted to plain text.

And vice versa, please.

[NickWalker]

I have around 500 sources in rich-text. There are no mentions of Segoe and actually no font references at all. These were all created by AS.

[tatewise]

So whichever default is set in Preferences there will need to be an option in the opened window to change mode.

Yes.

The Wish List proposes: "The Rich Text Editor window needs an option to convert to unformatted plain text."
Would that satisfy your requirement? The pop-up window would always be the Rich Text editor but choosing the plain text option would reduce it to the FH V6 style plain text editor box. Any text already in the field gets converted to plain text.

And vice versa, please.

So that would need yet another Tools > Preferences > Notes option to set the preference, and the FH V6 style of plain text editor box would need an option to convert to the Rich Text editor window.

Does anybody else feel a need for this feature to be added to the Wish List proposal?

[ColeValleyGirl]

Why another Tools > Preferences > Note option? Surely just the default text setting is sufficient?

[BillH]

Jim, Bill, Peter, Mark: Would that feature also offer a way of fixing those erroneous rich text formatted Notes?
I realise it would only be one at a time, but quicker than the current workarounds.

Mike,

That sounds like it would be helpful.

Thanks,
Bill

[jimlad68]

Jim, Bill, Peter, Mark: Would that feature also offer a way of fixing those erroneous rich text formatted Notes?
I realise it would only be one at a time, but quicker than the current workarounds.

Sounds good to me:- find them, click into edit.
I have no doubt there could be some method of selecting some (as in Plugin Rearrange Address and Place Parts > Input Filter), then removing Rich Text, but I suspect that would be a lot more trouble.

Not sure if possible, but I am working on an AHK addition to automate conversion as in:
- In the Note/Text from source etc box
- ctrl+A > ctrl+C > delete (Copy all the note to clipboard and delete original)
- ctrl+alt+double click to edit the rich text
- untick the Rich Text box > OK to exit rich text box
- Paste unformatted text, which should remove all the rich text features

[Jean001]

So whichever default is set in Preferences there will need to be an option in the opened window to change mode.
The Wish List proposes: "The Rich Text Editor window needs an option to convert to unformatted plain text."
Would that satisfy your requirement? The pop-up window would always be the Rich Text editor but choosing the plain text option would reduce it to the FH V6 style plain text editor box. Any text already in the field gets converted to plain text.

Yes, to the above,
OR
I would be happy for an option simply to 'strip away' all formatting not conforming to the default settings.

[Jean001]

Yes, I think it would work, alongside a “Segoe UI detector” that lists the records for fixing. The detector should be straightforward, so I’ll post a simple prototype here later today or tomorrow morning to save users from rummaging in their GEDCOM file.

I'm also 'suffering from' "Cambria Math" (<font="Cambria Math",,1>≈</font>) might that also be included?

[tatewise]

Helen, Jean, etc, I see what you are saying.
You are happy with the proposed Wish List option to enable/disable Rich Text Formatting in Tools > Preferences > Notes and the consequential effects on the right-click menu, Ctrl+V, etc.
Then in the cases where the FH V6 style edit box is open it has the option to change to the Rich Text editor window.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Yes.

Put very simply, choose a default preference in Tools > Preferences > Notes, but with the option to override or reinstate that preference when creating or editing any note text (rich or plain). The preference and per-note setting should both affect the editor interface and the format of the note, including (on a per-note basis) converting rich <-> plain text.

[jimlad68]

Jim, if Paste Unformatted Text is not doing what it says then that is a fault in FH that should be reported.

Done, ticket ticket #109088
I have also corrected (I hope) my AHK script (paste unformatted text) 12 Dec 2022 18:02 at viewtopic.php?f=43&t=21280&start=25#p131572

[Jean001]

Helen, Jean, etc, I see what you are saying.
You are happy with the proposed Wish List option to enable/disable Rich Text Formatting in Tools > Preferences > Notes and the consequential effects on the right-click menu, Ctrl+V, etc.
Then in the cases where the FH V6 style edit box is open it has the option to change to the Rich Text editor window.

Yes.

[AdrianBruce]

...
Right-click in a Note box offers a choice including Paste and Paste Unformatted Text similar to the way right-click in MS Office offers a choice of Paste Options as you stated.
So what do you mean by the default paste?
Perhaps you mean the Ctrl+V shortcut?
Perhaps the Paste button in the Rich Text editor window, but I think by then it is already formatted text? ...

OK - starting with the MS Word options as seen below (File / Options / Advanced / Cut, Copy and Paste).

Screenshot 2022-12-12 210152.jpg (36.42 KiB) Viewed 968 times

It's actually somewhat more sophisticated than I remembered but when I try to copy and paste from (say) FreeBMD into Word, it's "Pasting from other programs" that applies. Mine is set to "Keep Text Only", as you see. If I copy stuff from a browser and then use the Paste icon on the Ribbon, then I get what I've called Default Paste, as set up by the options in that first screenshot.

If (after the copy to clipboard) I do a right click, I get offered loads of things, one line of which is Paste but it's effectively paste three ways - i.e. I get three icons for pasting in each of the three ways mentioned above. Hovering over each of the three icons gives me a preview of what the pasted result would look like using each of the three options.

If I stick the cursor into the document and hit Control + V I get the default that I have chosen in that screenshot dialog box. In particular note that Control + V in MS Word does not always paste formatted text and that the software can alter what Control + V does.

I would agree that

the Ctrl+Shft+V shortcut does nothing at all, despite what others have said.

I haven't looked at Alt+H+V+T etc shortcuts because I just don't use "shortcuts" that long.

Re the proposal for pasting of unformatted text.

Add an option to set Paste Unformatted Text as the default, presumably in Tools > Preferences > Notes.

Yes

The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform an unformatted text paste.

No.

The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut should perform the sort of paste that is defined as the default in the last but one quote. Therefore, I don't see any need for a "new keyboard shortcut to perform a Rich Text Formatted Paste." You can right click to get the two options or set defaults to taste.

Icing on the cake would be a preview à la Word. But that may be outside the possibilities of the control that CP use.

[tatewise]

The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut should perform the sort of paste that is defined as the default in the last but one quote. Therefore, I don't see any need for a "new keyboard shortcut to perform a Rich Text Formatted Paste." You can right-click to get the two options or set defaults to taste.

Maybe my proposal was not clear enough, but the Edit > Paste command and Ctrl+V shortcut would perform according to the defined default. The proposal was describing just the change needed when Rich Text was disabled.

The new keyboard shortcut is for a Paste Unformatted Text operation. I think you must have misread that.
It is needed when Ctrl+V performs a Rich Text Formatted Paste so keyboard users have both options without using mouse.

[tatewise]

Third time lucky, this is my revised Wish List entry proposal from earlier ...
TITLE: Rich Text Formatted and Unformatted Plain Text Options
DESCRIPTION:
The objective is to allow users to easily opt in and out of the Rich Text formatting features.

Add a Prefer Rich Text Formatting option for new text, presumably in Tools > Preferences > Notes.
Ideally, that should be a per Project option.

Prefer Rich Text Formatting enabled invokes the current FH V7 features slightly modified as described below.
The [...] button on the right of the Note and other long-text fields usually opens the Rich Text editor window.
The exception is when the field holds plain text and then the FH V6 style plain text editor box opens.
The right-click options to Paste and Paste with Website Link and Paste Unformatted Text are active as now.
The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform a formatted text paste as now.
A new keyboard shortcut performs a Paste Unformatted Text operation, e.g. Ctrl+Shft+V.

Prefer Rich Text Formatting disabled invokes the old FH V6 features but slightly modified as described below.
The [...] button on the right of the Note and other long-text fields usually opens the FH V6 style plain text edit box.
The exception is when the field holds formatted rich text and then the Rich Text editor window opens.
The right-click options to Paste and Paste with Website Link are greyed out leaving Paste Unformatted Text.
The Edit > Paste command and the Ctrl+V shortcut perform a Paste Unformatted Text operation.
A new keyboard shortcut also performs a Paste Unformatted Text operation, e.g. Ctrl+Shft+V.

In both modes, the Rich Text editor window needs an option to switch to the plain text edit box and convert the text.
In both modes, the plain text editor box needs an option to switch to the Rich Text editor window.

There needs to be a new option to bulk convert all rich text in the Project to plain text.

Whenever converting rich text to plain text, complex data such as tables and links need careful consideration.
e.g. Should table column cells be separated by tabs or | characters or some combination? Should links show both the displayed name and the Record Id for internal links and the URL for external links?

Those capabilities cater for existing/imported Projects that already have either formatted rich text or plain text.
They allow users to easily choose and switch between Rich Text and plain text on a field-by-field basis.

[AdrianBruce]

... Maybe my proposal was not clear enough, but the Edit > Paste command and Ctrl+V shortcut would perform according to the defined default. The proposal was describing just the change needed when Rich Text was disabled. ...

OK - that makes sense now.

And the proposal above seems OK now.

[davidf]

Are we slipping into the danger that Adrian has warned me of a number of times of trying to specify "the solution" rather than what we require - which we may be losing sight of?

1. We want a non rich text option because?
   1. The current rich text option gives too many problems? So define them as bugs and look to get them fixed?

      ...
      I am not using Rich Text but certain actions and keystrokes are triggering changes to the default text. I am spending a lot of time changing the font settings back to the default options.
      ...
      So, I would like the option of using plain text only (i.e. 'to turn off' Rich Text).

   2. We want non rich text because we are anticipating exporting our work? (build a rich text de-formatter into the export routine?)

      The ticket(s) I raised at the time included these responses from Support:

      "... There is an option "convert notes to plain text" in the Export dialog. ...

2. We want common shortcuts to keep their usual meanings:
   1. Ctrl-V "Paste in what is on the clipboard" and
   2. Ctrl-Shft-V "Paste in a de-formatted version of what is on the clipboard" (This is not present in FH v7?)
3. For editing we want:
   1. Existing rich text to be presented for editing in the V7 rich text editor, and
   2. Existing non rich text to be presented for editing in the V6 text editor.
4. Why not just specify that if:
   1. the text is non rich text, rich text facilities in the V7 editor should be disabled? Or,
   2. that such text should not acquire formatting except by user interaction and if it has no formatting it should be saved as "non rich text"? (Can we tell the difference between non rich text saved as "rich text" and unformatted text saved as "rich text"?)
5. An option to "strip formatting" within a long text note would be useful. But we could have the standard approach:
   • Ctrl-A (Select All)
   • Ctrl-X (Cut All to clipboard)
   • Ctrl-Shft-V (paste unformatted text from clipboard) (Edit - per MT's reply)
   If that does not work, that is a bug?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much does just ensuring that

1. Support Ticket: Identified bugs in "rich text" are addressed
2. Wish List: The short-cuts Ctrl-A, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V and Ctrl-Shft-V (Select-All, Cut, Copy, Paste & Paste-Unformatted) are available where applicable and the functionality is available via the edit menu and via the context menu (where applicable)

meets our needs?

Or have I lost the thread (literally)?

[tatewise]

1. We want a non rich text option because?
   1. The current rich text option gives too many problems? So define them as bugs and look to get them fixed?
      We've done that. CP have not fixed them all. CP suggested posting a Plain Text Only option in the Wish List.
   2. We want non rich text because we are anticipating exporting our work?
      That does already exist in Export GEDCOM File.
2. We want common shortcuts to keep their usual meanings:
   1. Ctrl-V "Paste in what is on the clipboard" and
   2. Ctrl-Shft-V "Paste in a de-formatted version of what is on the clipboard" (This is a new request.)
3. For editing we want:
   1. Existing rich text to be presented for editing in the V7 rich text editor, and
   2. Existing non rich text to be presented for editing in the V6 text editor.
   3. Some users want to initiate a new text field in either the V7 editor or V6 editor chosen by default.
4. Why not just specify that if:
   1. the text is non rich text, rich text facilities in the V7 editor should be disabled? Or,
   2. that such text should not acquire formatting except by user interaction and if it has no formatting it should be saved as "non rich text"? (Can we tell the difference between non rich text saved as "rich text" and unformatted text saved as "rich text"? We cannot easily but FH and Plugins can because Rich Text has a _FMT tag.)
   3. How can existing plain text be converted to rich text or rich text converted to plain text?
5. An option to "strip formatting" within a long text note would be useful. But we could have the standard approach:
   • Ctrl-A (Select All)
   • Ctrl-X (Cut All to clipboard)
   • Ctrl-Shft-C (copy unformatted text from clipboard) Do you mean Ctrl+Shft+V as proposed above?
   If that does not work, that is a bug?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much does just ensuring that

1. Support Ticket: Identified bugs in "rich text" are addressed
2. Wish List: The short-cuts Ctrl-A, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V and Ctrl-Shft-V (Select-All, Cut, Copy, Paste & Paste-Unformatted) are available where applicable and the functionality is available via the edit menu and via the context menu (where applicable)

meets our needs?
Not everyone seems comfortable with using keyboard shortcuts as the only solution.

[davidf]

My original in plain text
Mike's comments in italics
My responses in Blue

1. We want a non rich text option because?
   1. The current rich text option gives too many problems? So define them as bugs and look to get them fixed?
      We've done that. CP have not fixed them all. CP suggested posting a Plain Text Only option in the Wish List. That does seem a counsel of despair - The Rich Text function needs to be fixed - not left as an optional semi-working feature
   2. We want non rich text because we are anticipating exporting our work?
      That does already exist in Export GEDCOM File.
2. We want common shortcuts to keep their usual meanings:
   1. Ctrl-V "Paste in what is on the clipboard" and
   2. Ctrl-Shft-V "Paste in a de-formatted version of what is on the clipboard" (This is a new request.) Agreed and should be on a Wish List Request - possibly as a "stand-alone" independent of any other wish?
3. For editing we want:
   1. Existing rich text to be presented for editing in the V7 rich text editor, and
   2. Existing non rich text to be presented for editing in the V6 text editor.
   3. Some users want to initiate a new text field in either the V7 editor or V6 editor chosen by default. I am not sure that I understand the reason "why" - other than "well the V6 one worked!" (see previous) When I used Windows, I did not really mind whether I used Notepad or Write - the latter had more features and could save in MS-RTF(?), but to the user typing in them was a very similar experience and if I was not going to examine the result externally (outside of the editor that created it), the choice did not really matter - so you took write and used the extra features if you needed them
4. Why not just specify that if:
   1. the text is non rich text, rich text facilities in the V7 editor should be disabled? Or,
   2. that such text should not acquire formatting except by user interaction and if it has no formatting it should be saved as "non rich text"? (Can we tell the difference between non rich text saved as "rich text" and unformatted text saved as "rich text"? We cannot easily but FH and Plugins can because Rich Text has a _FMT tag.) OK, so the user can be indifferent. Plug-in authors have to cope with both whatever is decided - or is there currently no need for a "plain text" (V6) editor in FH7? If so lets avoid the extra complication?
   3. How can existing plain text be converted to rich text or rich text converted to plain text? For a field by field approach - see immediately below. For a bulk approach, do we want the bit of functionality from the "export" routine available somewhere on the menu system? I think converting plain text to rich text is a non-issue - unless one is expecting that routine to intelligently assume the formatting required (CITT etc.)
5. An option to "strip formatting" within a long text note would be useful. But we could have the standard approach:
   • Ctrl-A (Select All)
   • Ctrl-X (Cut All to clipboard)
   • Ctrl-Shft-V (copy unformatted text from clipboard) Do you mean Ctrl+Shft+V as proposed above? Thanks - corrected
   If that does not work, that is a bug?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much does just ensuring that

1. Support Ticket: Identified bugs in "rich text" are addressed
2. Wish List: The short-cuts Ctrl-A, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V and Ctrl-Shft-V (Select-All, Cut, Copy, Paste & Paste-Unformatted) are available where applicable and the functionality is available via the edit menu and via the context menu (where applicable)

meets our needs?
Not everyone seems comfortable with using keyboard shortcuts as the only solution. So would an icon on the rich text toolbar (and the edit menu) - which in effect runs those key strokes together get over that issue? (with the short-cuts available for people that like shortcuts - "the WordStar / WordPerfect generation"?)

Having two different editors and an option hidden in preferences - just seems to be complicating things when the main problem seems to be a buggy "rich text" system? Fix that and normal users can be indifferent as to the technology of the editor and the actual storage of long notes?

[ColeValleyGirl]

Are we slipping into the danger that Adrian has warned me of a number of times of trying to specify "the solution" rather than what we require - which we may be losing sight of?

Absolutely, yes. We also run the risk IMO of specifying a solution that doesn't fit in with CPs strategy/architecture when another way of achieving the same goal would be equally acceptable to us and more acceptable to CP.

We want a non rich text option because?

In my case, I want to use rich text for some notes (e.g. Proof Statements that I currently produce in Word to be able to use formatting, and attach as PDF media files to the Individual; Research Notes where formatting will help to organise the contents; other Notes not intended for publication but for my use only) and plain text for other notes that will be published via a website, where formatting would disrupt the website appearance.

Stripping formatting on export wouldn't meet this need as I specifically require a mix, not all rich or all plain. Also, I shouldn't need to do an export to generate a report!

It is currently perfectly possible to create plain text notes by not using the rich text editing features, and by using the right-click option to paste unformatted text when required. As long as these features are reliable (with all bugs fixed), and supplemented with a simple method to convert a note from rich to plain text (when I make a mistake or change my mind), my needs are met... I can live with a single editor UI and just not use the rich text features when I don't want them (there are lots of places in FH where users happily ignore stuff they don't need/want and this will be no different). Converting rich text to plain text is easy enough (for me) via CTL-A - CTL-X - paste unformatted; And if I want to convert a plain text note to rich text, I just add the desired formatting.

Although I don't use keyboard shortcuts a lot, a keyboard shortcut for 'paste unformatted text' is essential for accessibility, and for those users who prefer to work with the keyboard predominantly rather than the mouse. It ought to be compatible with the 'usual meanings'.

Some users want to use plain text exclusively so an option to default to the plain text editor would be nice for them to have (but not essential).

Some users want to use formatted text exclusively. Their needs are met by FH plus stripping formatted text on export if desired.

I'd specify the requirement as:

• MANDATORY/CURRENT BEHAVIOUR: Text formatting should only be introduced by the user (including by pasting formatted text from the clipboard or using formatted Autotext). If all visible text formatting is removed, the note should revert to plain text. (This seems to be the current design, but any bugs making this behaviour unreliable must be fixed)
• MANDATORY: Keyboard shortcut should be provided for pasting unformatted text.
• NICE TO HAVE: An option to revert to plain text only, hiding the rich text formatting capability in the editor.
• NICE TO HAVE: A simple method of converting a rich text note to a plain text note. (The simple Select All-Cut-Paste Unformatted method exists already, which is why I've marked this NICE TO HAVE).

[ColeValleyGirl]

(with the short-cuts available for people that like shortcuts - "the WordStar / WordPerfect generation"?)

Shortcuts are an accessibility requirement, not a generational preference.

[Mark1834]

That seems a sensible summary for the longer term position, but it does rather absolve CP from responsibility to help fix the issues that their bug has created. That shouldn’t be down solely to plugin authors.

[ColeValleyGirl]

To be fair, I'm not clear how CP can fix them, without knowing the user's intent for each note? Other than by writing a plugin ...

[Mark1834]

Clearly, they can’t, but they can (and IMO should) provide tools to help the user do so, such as easy location of rich text and removal of formatting. They shouldn’t just wash their hands of it.

[davidf]

To be fair, I'm not clear how CP can fix them [issues created by a "buggy" rich text system], without knowing the user's intent for each note? Other than by writing a plugin ...

A CP written plug-in is a sensible way to go because this requirement hopefully is a transient one, so no point in burdening "main code" with that functionality.

But to write that plug-in without second guessing what each user's intent for each note was is a tall order, and I think we need to specify what is required.

Possibly a new topic is required "Rich Text Issues" which details:

• The specific "systemic" issues we have identified with the rich text system - where it consistently does things clearly wrong - bugs to fix.
• Issues where it may not do what users expect - documentation clarification as a minimum, but possibly system issues to fix.
• Requirement for a systematised "fix" for each of the above - for the former we may be looking for a blanket fix; for the latter we may be looking for a (user) selective fix?