* Underline 'No Children'

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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 14:25

I used to know how to do this!!
I want to have a thick black line under any individual who has no children (in a diagram),can someone please remind me how to do it!
Thanks in advance.[grin]

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PeterR
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by PeterR » 13 Sep 2010 14:47

In Diagram Options (General) you need to tick the box for 'No-offspring marker'.  The Options... button provides additional information about this and allows you to control the appearance of the line.
Peter Richmond (researching Richmond, Bulman, Martin, Driscoll, Baxter, Hall, Dales, Tyrer)

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Jane
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by Jane » 13 Sep 2010 14:50

Also remember this is controlled by the Number of Children count field not the number of children attached to the family record.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:00

I have put in 0 in the facts but cannot find a child count field.I remember it in the 'old' versions but cannot find it in V4

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Jane
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by Jane » 13 Sep 2010 15:03

You can either pop it in on the All tab, or add the field to one of your tabs on the Property Box. It's on the old details tab in V3.
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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:25

Sorry,I am being dim today!
I have ticked the 'no offspring' marker.
I am using V4 and on going to the ALL tab how do I add the count of children field?
I have a child count field that I added using the ADD FACT button and put in 0 but still no line is showing up under the individual.
Amm I still doing something wrong?

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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:26

Also,if I go back to the old V3 details tab do I not lose what I have in the V4 details tab?

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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:33

I have now managed to to get a line to appear but it is under the wrong individual!
I put the child count in for the husband and the line appeared under the wife!
I want to show the line under an individual who had no children and did not marry.

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aragorn
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:41

I think I have sussed it out now,Thanks!!

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by aragorn » 13 Sep 2010 15:47

How do I now get back to V4 settings from V3 compatibility?

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 02 Nov 2011 10:19

I would also like to enable this rather useful indicator. I have set the 'No Offspring' marker in Diagram Options/General.
Display Spouse in own box is ticked, but I am not getting the marker under an infant death (I have tried re-drawing the diagram).

I am obviously doing something wrong - any ideas anyone please ?

Geoff.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 02 Nov 2011 10:31

Sorry, I should explain a little better - I can get the line ok if I manually add an attribute Child Count and set it to 0. What I want is a query to automatically go through and find all persons with no children and then create and set the attribute. Is that possible - surely FH already knows how many children a person has ?

Cheers,
G.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by tatewise » 02 Nov 2011 11:28

For more details, see the thread No offspring marker v4:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/cgi-bin/index.cg ... y&num=4369

Yes 'FH already knows how many children a person has' but that does not mean they had no offspring.
It only means your research has not discovered any children yet.
The Individual Child Count Attribute = 0 and the Family Count of Children = 0 are intended to record where conclusively there were no offspring.

It is certainly possible to create a Query to list all Individuals with no Children, but it is not possible to automatically create Attributes from that.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 02 Nov 2011 21:02

Thanks.

Maybe I am getting confused with the semantics of 'children' vs 'offspring' but basically it would be great if FH detected cases for example where a person died under (say) 16 years old and marked the person with a black underline. Even better if it could do the same for cases where there is no (currently) known children/offspring for a person. If children/offspring were later added the line could disappear ?

Cheers,
Geoff.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by tatewise » 02 Nov 2011 21:26

I am not sure why you need a No Offspring Line when there is no children.
On Diagrams you can see there are no children, because there are no child boxes attached.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by NickWalker » 02 Nov 2011 22:31

tatewise said:
I am not sure why you need a No Offspring Line when there is no children.
On Diagrams you can see there are no children, because there are no child boxes attached.
The difference is that a 'no offspring line' shows they didn't have children, whereas a box with no child boxes attached just shows that you haven't recorded any children. This may be because they never had children or perhaps you haven't found any children yet in your research, or you've not recorded them yet, etc.
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tatewise
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by tatewise » 02 Nov 2011 22:49

Sorry Nick, you have misunderstood the point.
Geoff wanted FH to automatically draw a No Offspring Line whenever there were no children in its database.
But it is obvious in Diagrams when there are no children, so an automatic No Offspring Line is superfluous.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 03 Nov 2011 09:23

To clarify,

I just think it would be good if there was an option for FH to mark anyone who hasn't any children/offspring (yet) attached to be underlined. The line would then disappear as soon as a child/offspring was attached.

Having to go through and add a child count attribute manually seems a tad clumsy for such an otherwise all-encompassing application ?.

Cheers,
Geoff.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gerrynuk » 03 Nov 2011 10:08

I think you have to be very careful about the definition of 'No offspring' Either it means that a person never had children OR that you haven't found any children for them. It cannot mean both otherwise confusion will reign.

I think it is always dangerous to assume that a person had no children unless they died before they were capable of having children. There are many cases of women who had to hide a pregnancy and then give up their child for adoption. And who was the father - will we ever find out? And have you marked the father as having no children because he wasn't married to the mother and never admitted to having children?

For this reason I would not want FH to have 'No offspring' as the default.

Gerry

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Jane
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by Jane » 03 Nov 2011 17:44

If you want to add something, why not just set a flag and use that to condition a box type or icon to mark people who you have not entered children for.
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Underline 'No Children'

Post by tatewise » 04 Nov 2011 11:09

At the risk of being repetitive may I summarise the points.

What is being requested is an AUTOMATIC no children marker in Diagrams when there are no children recorded.
Therefore, MANUALLY setting Child Count = 0 or adding a Flag is not the desired answer, because when a child is found the manual setting must be undone.

Having said that, an AUTOMATIC marker is redundant, because in Diagrams you can see at a glance that there are no children.
There are no child boxes connected to the individual, so it is obvious they have no children, so why is a marker needed as well?
The lack of child boxes is the no children marker.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 04 Nov 2011 11:22

Well, I was actually talking about an OPTION to have it automatically underline people with no offspring and automatically remove the underline if/when children are added.

Cheers,
Geoff.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by tatewise » 04 Nov 2011 16:19

But how would that underline add information to the Diagram when there are automatically no child boxes clearly indicating there are no children recorded.
When you add children, then the child boxes automatically appear.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gbrowne » 04 Nov 2011 17:14

The underline would show that your research has conclusively proven that the person did not have children (for example a child death) or an adult who you know for certain never had children. Since it is safer to assume there were no children until you find some, I'm suggesting we could have an option to automatically mark them as childless (with the line) until a child is attached ?

G.

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Underline 'No Children'

Post by gerrynuk » 05 Nov 2011 10:27

gbrowne said:
 Since it is safer to assume there were no children until you find some, I'm suggesting we could have an option to automatically mark them as childless (with the line) until a child is attached ?

G.
Whilst I can understand your reasoning my recollection from dealing with an intestate estate is that the assumption is that a person did have children (who therefore might be entitled to a share of the estate) unless there is reasonable evidence to the contrary. This of course raises the problem that except in limited circumstances (e.g. too young or medically unable to have children) you can never prove that a person didn't have children, only that they did!

My approach therefore is to leave matters unresolved and not use the 'No offspring marker' unless I have strong evidence that there were no children.

Your suggestion that the default position should be that FH shows a marker until children are found is, I believe, misleading unless the marker becomes 'No children found', which then clearly flags up that researches are on-going, or at least incomplete.

The ability of FH to set flags and change the appearance of diagrams depending on the existence of flags does, I believe, provide the best way for you to proceed.

Gerry

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