Family Historian User Group

There have been a number of recent discussions from a small group of us about improvements to diagrams and some suggestion that a broader view may be required rather than piecemeal improvement.

Many of those of us involved in the discussion so far have viewed diagram as the fundamental environment in which we work when interacting with FH.

The following is part of a summary that I have lifted from a post I recently made. By moving it here I hope that we can manage a discussion of areas where we might want to see improvements or enhancements.

".... However it is possibly a good idea to try and kick around the various user requirements (the "what"). We both admit that we use diagrams as our major working environment - but may well do so differently. For instance you are using a supplied text scheme, whilst I use a highly customised text scheme.

Can we scope out areas of requirements? And once we have scoped out the areas (and mutually understood them!) discuss in detail the requirements - I suspect there will be a lot of overlap. Once we understand the overlaps and inter-relationships we might be able to split our requirements into discrete requirements that can be separately written up?

My initial thoughts on scope:

1. Displaying trees - possibly more complex that just ancestor or descendent diagrams
   1. Multiple (existing) trees in one diagram - does the current context menu "Insert into Diagram" option meet needs?
   2. Adding a new tree into a diagram - does the current menu "Add, into a diagram" option meet needs?
   3. Hard linking an individual who appears in two trees in the same diagram (to effectively join two trees) - Is the manual stacking of such individuals adequate and if they they were hard stacked how would we want redrawing of the diagram to work (like an All Relatives Diagram - which I find awkward)?
   4. Some sort of hover/click for more detail - for instance hovering over a spouse might bring up a summary tree of the spouse - parents and siblings
2. Navigating (large) trees
   1. Someone elsewhere has mentioned the facility in the Ancestry online trees.
   2. Making trees more navigable - for instance a tree with less information gets more people on screen - but is clicking to bring up the property box an adequate way to see more detail?
   3. Accessing different levels of detail (e.g. summary for navigating and detail for researching)
3. Text Schemes
   1. Managing some sort of hierarchy of Text Scheme Content and Styling
   2. Managing Text Scheme Content - across a number of Schemes
   3. Managing Text Scheme Styles - across a number of Schemes
   4. Different content and Styling for a specific individual compared to other individuals in the same diagram
   5. Different content and Styling for a specific fact for a specific individual compared to other individuals in the same diagram
   6. Improvements in the Item Editor - e.g. Advanced Syntax checker (beyond the V6 validate)
   7. Additional styling features (e.g. horizontal lines between say BMD info and Census info)
   8. Adding an icon on a fact line within a box (possibly to indicate certainty or main source?)
4. Various tree "enhancements"
   1. Showing more than one picture per individual
   2. Control over intergenerational lines to indicate types of relationship (as with inter-spousal/inter-partner lines)
   3. DNA issues - e.g. lines which highlight common Y chromosome or common mtDNA (not my area!)
   4. Printing banner trees more reliably
5. Other?

Are there other additions? (Almost certainly!)

Reference: Recent topics that had mentioned diagram improvements:

• Diagram Text Schemes: Family of Variants by dbnut » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:15 pm
• Resize and Move Media Using Mouse by APerson » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:41 pm
• Diagram Window: Box Views "Exploded" by dbnut » Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:43 pm
• Edit Text Scheme: Block Operations by dbnut » Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:36 am
• Create Custom Diagram Box Presets by jsnyder » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:03 pm

I don't have any particular requirements for diagrams that aren't already met, but I would urge you to think about (eventually) breaking out your requirements into a number of 'wishes' (perhaps all linking back to an overarching vision of the end game). I think it more likely that small steps will happen than a big bang change.

Also, please review the two pages of existing Wishes related to Diagrams to ensure you don't duplicate anything and/or refer to related Wishes if relevant . (Might be worth looking at the completed items as well for context).

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:50

I don't have any particular requirements for diagrams that aren't already met, but I would urge you to think about (eventually) breaking out your requirements into a number of 'wishes' (perhaps all linking back to an overarching vision of the end game). I think it more likely that small steps will happen than a big bang change.

I think the key word is "eventually" - although some "small steps" which have little impact on other wishes may drop out relatively quickly (or be found to have already dropped out - into the wish list or even some corner of FH7!). If we can get an overarching vision of a next point (FH8/9?) it may help formulate wishes in a way that can be implemented without tripping over each other - which must increase the chances of them being taken on board?

I think there is a "core" to this list that relates to management of text schemes (or equivalent management of content and styling) which better enables use of diagrams for managing genealogical data (the way some of us "do genealogy" using FH diagrams) - issues of how much data to see and when - whilst being able to see a summary for navigation and "over-view".

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:50

Also, please review the two pages of existing Wishes related to Diagrams to ensure you don't duplicate anything and/or refer to related Wishes if relevant . (Might be worth looking at the completed items as well for context).

Ok that is a necessary - but large operation!

davidf wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:27

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:50

Also, please review the two pages of existing Wishes related to Diagrams to ensure you don't duplicate anything and/or refer to related Wishes if relevant . (Might be worth looking at the completed items as well for context).

Ok that is a necessary - but large operation!

Yup, but those of us who have to transfer the results of your deliberations into the Wish List will get really crabby if you don't... it's going (I suspect) to be a lot of work adding stuff the the Wish List so you really have to check for duplication/overlap so that we don't have to!

(You really don't want to see me and Mike **really** crabby).

Grateful for this summary. Following it "from afar" at the moment.

I'd suggest this ought to go back into General. It's a debate, not a specific request, or even a mature outline for a range of requests.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:50

I don't have any particular requirements for diagrams that aren't already met...

That highlights the (apparent) dichotomy between:

• (apparently normal) FH users, who use diagrams/charts for their originally intended purpose, and

• (weirdo) Diagram Man types like me, who abuse them.

Perhaps we need to spell out more clearly how we get our thrills. That could help to:

• get this recognised as a genuine medical condition

• give it a name

• promote better understanding in the community

• devise ways to support us

• encourage others to come out

• work towards integration into society

It's a bit early to ask for a poll to identify prevalence of this affliction.

There's a whole spectrum of ways in which users use diagrams.

Some use them as their main navigation/data entry vehicle -- and have done Version 2; there's nothing weird about it.

Others use them simply to view their tree in whatever configuration suits them best.

Others still use them for specific tasks, e.g. to keep track of work-in-progress, or as an aid when working with DNA (my 2 major uses of them).

I'm sure there are even more uses that I am not aware of.

I'm not sure there is or ever was a single intended purpose.

I am another diagram user (I never look at the Focus window unless someone asks a question about it in these forums). However I don’t (I hope) suffer from the extreme syndrome hinted at by Paul! Having used FH for many years I have developed ways of working which meet most of my needs, even if they involve an extra click here and there.

For example in David's point 2b he says “is clicking to bring up the property box an adequate way to see more detail?” Well yes, I think it is. I have developed a text scheme which contains most of the detail I need, and I’m quite happy to look at the Property box if I need anything more. I use the same text scheme most of the time, and simply zoom in and out to switch between a detailed view and a larger overview. I don’t find navigation a problem. I can always get to a view I want, if necessary by expanding or closing different branches, or clicking on an individual to open another window with that person as the diagram root.

However a couple of David's points do strike a chord:

1c. Hard linking an individual who appears in two trees in the same diagram. I would welcome this (and the ability to preserve that hard linking in a saved Chart). I think the user would need to arrange the relative positions of the two trees initially, using the Movement Control Box options, but thereafter any additions to either tree would be dynamic. Just as branches move dynamically when additions are made to a single tree, branches in both trees might need to move to accommodate additions to one of them. (I guess this would be difficult to code, which is why it hasn’t been done!)

4c. DNA issues. V7 does contain 4 DNA diagrams but they display only the individuals with whom the diagram root shares those types of DNA. It would be useful if they could be highlighted within the context of a more inclusive diagram type which contains other relatives.

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 12:39

4c. DNA issues. V7 does contain 4 DNA diagrams but they display only the individuals with whom the diagram root shares those types of DNA. It would be useful if they could be highlighted within the context of a more inclusive diagram type which contains other relatives.

I'm not sure I understand this, Lorna. Does the atDNA diagram (showing All Relatives) not do exactly that?

P.S. I've raised a very specific New Wish about DNA diagrams.

I'm not sure I understand this, Lorna. Does the atDNA diagram (showing All Relatives) not do exactly that?

I'm probably missing something (it wouldn't be the first time!) but my point was that, for example, a Y DNA diagram for Anthony Munro (in FH Sample Project) displays only the people he shares Y DNA with:

But an All Relatives diagram for the same person displays this:

I think David's suggstion was for the Y DNA people to be highlighted within the context of the diagram which also includes other relatives. Maybe there is an option I haven't found.

Try Charts > DNA Diagrams > Shared Autosomal DNA. It defaults to All Relatives and has icons for X, Y and mtDNA as well as atDNA percentages.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 12:39

There's a whole spectrum of ways in which users use diagrams.

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 12:39

However I don’t (I hope) suffer from the extreme syndrome hinted at by Paul!

Come on, Ladies, did I really need to put a smiley in there?

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 13:19

Try Charts > DNA Diagrams > Shared Autosomal DNA. It defaults to All Relatives and has icons for X, Y and mtDNA as well as atDNA percentages.

Ah yes, that covers everything. So perhaps David's point 4c is redundant? Although he did express it in terms of lines which highlight the DNA connections.

Come on, Ladies, did I really need to put a smiley in there?

No, you didn't need to. Did I really need to put a smiley in mine ?

dbnut wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 13:42

Come on, Ladies, did I really need to put a smiley in there?

Ladies????!!!!!

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 12:39

For example in David's point 2b he says “is clicking to bring up the property box an adequate way to see more detail?” Well yes, I think it is. I have developed a text scheme which contains most of the detail I need, and I’m quite happy to look at the Property box if I need anything more. I use the same text scheme most of the time, and simply zoom in and out to switch between a detailed view and a larger overview. I don’t find navigation a problem. I can always get to a view I want, if necessary by expanding or closing different branches, or clicking on an individual to open another window with that person as the diagram root.

Lorna, our approaches differ only in detail, then. A custom and detailed text scheme is for navigation plus review. The Property Window completes my "workspace", 90% of the time or whatever.

I do have a bit of trouble with one-name-type trees that I "glue together" with parish-level ancestors, upwards. These can get extremely wide (exacerbated by lots of "strays"). Within one parish, my "standard" text scheme generally works OK. But higher, up to "whole tree", views are hard to zoom readably unless I switch to a highly compact box scheme. [That's the basis for hoping to get a shortcut method for changing Box Text properties only.]

Agreed, I could then rely on Properties for detail, but would just be better satisfied by a familiarly-formatted pop-up. It's not the end of the world if that never happens.

I only rarely use other diagram types (apart from Ancs/Descs to extend navigation), frequently insert other trees, am getting to grips with tiled diagram windows (and have major issues, TBA), and (to pick up another comment) simply highlight a common individual in both trees for rudimentary "grounding".

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 14:02

Come on, Ladies, did I really need to put a smiley in there?

No, you didn't need to. Did I really need to put a smiley in mine ?

You're so stern, Ma'am, I haven't got the measure of you yet.

dbnut wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 12:14

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:50

I don't have any particular requirements for diagrams that aren't already met...

That highlights the (apparent) dichotomy between:

• (apparently normal) FH users, who use diagrams/charts for their originally intended purpose, and

• (weirdo) Diagram Man types like me, who abuse them.

Perhaps we need to spell out more clearly how we get our thrills. ...

I agree - as one who seems to suffer from the delta variant of Genealogy (the variant that is concerned with diagrams and family trees) as opposed to those who suffer from the beta variant (an obsessive concern with getting the software to write books for them)

How do I get my thrills (within the limitations of a 15.6 inch diagonal laptop screen)? (Currently V6)

I visualise - therefore Diagrams and Family Trees are my preferred mode of operation.

I use diagrams almost exclusively together with a floating individual property box (showing the fact tab with sources to the right). I tend to use the mouse to push that box out of the way (sometimes just leaving the margin visible at the edge of the screen. FH tends to be near full screen and I Alt-tab through FH, my browser, and my note-taker (Zim) and if I am writing (now almost exclusively in a blog) I will have a second browser window open.

Screen space is important but so is detail (and for many purposes the property box fact tab is just too clunky - but it is all I have). I therefore tend to have a "Research" Diagram text scheme which has a lot of detail in it, and I work on a level of zoom that is a serious strain on the eyes. I tend to work in a number of distinct manners:

1. Chasing up and down a tree (using BMD, parish records and census records) to trace relatives
2. Working over existing trees resolving contradictions, adding new information (e.g. 1921 Census)
3. Biography where I may be focusing on one person.
4. "Family Reconstruction" where I might have multiple fragments of trees as I try to resolve which families people belong to. (The above screen shot is where I am attempting to differentiate between two Clark(e) families, where (very antisocially - for future genealogists) at least one male Clark(e) married a female Blunt)

I might have multiple Diagram windows open (the example above I originally spawned from my Williamson Diagram to try and chase down Clark(e) ancestors). But switching between diagram windows (clicking in the left margin) does not come naturally. Sometimes being able to hover over a spouse and to get a preview (at low level of detail) of their immediate family would help prevent unnecessary spawning (which creates a messy workplace).

Each family (or sometimes each task) may have a saved Diagram/Chart. That creates a profusion of saved Diagrams some of which are temporary and some of which are sort of permanent (as used when printing a pdf to send to a relative)

Some of my text schemes are quite complex to get the level of detail I want: With this set up the major pain is maintaining an overview and navigating my diagrams. Tools like Ctrl-H to find an individual I find clunky. I need some way to switch between overview and relevent detail - and the Fact tab of the property box does not totally fit the bill (it shows everything for one thing). Zooming out on a scheme that is already small text just makes everything unreadable.

Of course, I don't need this level of detail all of the time for all of the sort of tasks that I do, but setting up multiple Text Schemes and switching between them is again clunky. Yes you can clone a text scheme and then edit it - but you then rapidly end up with a large number of schemes and despite long and tortuous text scheme names you lose track of what they all do.

Then if you find a neat bit of "code" (such as Mike published recently for detecting twins and using it to set an icon) which you then want to incorporate in your schemes to show "(Twin+)" in the birth line, editing your text schemes involves a lot backtracking through various schemes to find the relevant lines and edit them (taking care to paste the code the correct side of the relevant bracket!).

In terms of solutions (which possibly re-empts discussions about requirements) I am toying with a number of ideas. Really we need to trash out requirements first but perhaps what follows can help make clearer my above frustrations?

1. Content Management
   
   A desire to see user created alternative "chunks of text scheme" (I have alternatives called Minimal, Verbose and Complex in the example below) which I can easily switch "in" and "out":
   • Name
     • Minimal, 1 line sufficient for identification
     • Verbose, possibly full name, "used name" and nicknames
     • Complex including facts like "Notable for ...", "of ..." etc.
     • etc.
   • BMD
     • Minimal, year/place
     • Verbose, Date place & address (and for marriages bride)
     • Complex, - as in the above figure
     • etc.
   • Census
     • Minimal, year/place
     • Verbose, Year, place & address
     • Complex, Year, place & address & Household details
     • etc.
   • etc.
     • etc.
   These "chunks of schemes" can then be chosen and combined (by reference rather than cloning) into "schemes" that will have the same impact as existing schemes. But if I find a neat way to display household details in a census, I only have to find the single "census chunk" and edit it once. The change then cascades (by default) into every diagram which uses a scheme with that particular "chunk".
   
   The above is only two level. Provided the interface does not confuse (the beta!) users there is no reason why such schemes should not be multi-level (Chunks within Chunks? There's a genealogical dog's dinner joke in there).
   
   When doing Census tasks I might have the Verbose Name, Verbose BMD and Complex Census chunks switched "in" and everything else switched "out". If doing a migration task I might have the Complex Voyages chunk switched "in". If publishing I might have another configuration of chunks depending on my audience.
   
   That would then enhance my method of working by helping me work with only the information I need.
2. Style Management
   
   Doing something similar with the styling of diagrams. If I find something neat I want to be able to edit something once and then see its effect (by default) cascade through all diagrams.
   
   I want to be able to adjust the style separate from adjusting the content.
   
   For publication (and possibly for research working) I want to be able to adjust the style of an individual (even of a specific fact) separately from other individuals in a diagram.
   
   I think the above two (content management and style management) are conceptually linked.
3. Scheme Editor
   
   The above two issues have implications on both the Scheme edit functions (and possibly the New Fact function - where you might accept or determine default styles)
   
   The scheme editor also shows signs of age and could do with a re-think so that new lines can be added more easily (in a particular place - without in a big scheme chasing a new line from the bottom up through the scheme to where you want it - with an enhanced wizard for getting the syntax of not just GEDCOM elements but also functions correct - see most spreadsheets?)
   
   (And isn't it time such a list (as with all "lists") had a mouseable repositioning option?)
4. Navigation
   
   Moving around a diagram is difficult but could be made easier. Possibilities include:
   • In the Individual property window make it so that when you ctrl-click on the Blue "Go to Parent" or "Go to Child" arrows, the diagram moves to bring the relevant person on screen (if they are in the current diagram)
   • The ability to work with a less detailed scheme but when you hover over an individual for more than a configurable amount of time their diagram "box" will use a different text scheme (ideally in a " "pop-up" so as to not disturb the geometry of the underlying tree) to show a user-configurable different (usually greater) level of detail. A click then will bring that person into the property box - the advantage of a "hover" is that you can compare the details of one person with the person currently in the Property box.
   • A quick navigation "window" that uses a different text scheme to present more individuals at a lesser level of detail - accessed by a right click on a blank bit of diagram?

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 13:16

I think David's suggestion was for the Y DNA people to be highlighted within the context of the diagram which also includes other relatives. Maybe there is an option I haven't found.

Yes, it was. I was trying to think of being able to flag someone on a diagram as "DNA root" and for the relationship lines to change to show all on the diagram who share Y-chromosome (blue lines?) or mtDNA (red lines?) with them (up and down the generations). I think Autosomal DNA is fairly obvious most of the time.

I'm not on V7 but from what I have read I don't think this is available.

Presumably the DNA charting will detect events like adoptions (the adopted relationship indicator or the event) and truncate DNA lining appropriately?

davidf wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 14:36

How do I get my thrills (within the limitations of a 15.6 inch diagonal laptop screen)? (Currently V6)...
I use diagrams almost exclusively together with a floating individual property box (showing the fact tab with sources to the right)..

Mine's twice the size of yours, eyesight's b***d, they did warn me.

TBA:.

"Oh, for a complete picture, like that [but better]", "Oh, to be docked, like that [isn't]", "Oh, to slide in & out, [with a hover or click]"