* Plugins and Version 7

[ronk]

I just purchased the FH v7 upgrade. Have not installed yet, since awaiting an activation email (how long does that take to arrive?).

Two questions;
1) Will my existing plugins, especially an export plugin, still work?
2) Is it possible to have both FH v6.2 and FH v7 installed, or even better, running side by side (assuming separate data files)?

Thanks in advance.

Ron

[Mark1834]

1. The FH7 install disables your existing plugins, as there are significant compatibility issues between old and new programming language. You don't say whether your plugins are from the store or home brew, but updated versions of most plugins have been uploaded to the store during the beta testing phase, so you should download the updated version. If it is a homebrew plugin, it may or may not work under FH7, and guidance is given in the plugin help of points that authors should check.

2. No, FH7 installs over the top of FH6, and there is no option to run them side by side. If you have two installations on separate PCs, you can keep one on FH6 if you wish, but remember that a FH7 data file should not be opened in FH6, as it risks corruption.

[ColeValleyGirl]

If you want to see which plugins have been upgraded to V7 compatibility, see https://pluginstore.family-historian.c ... rd-plugins

[ronk]

Thanks for your timely response.

Glad I haven't installed v7 yet. I find it more than disconcerting that version 7 overlays the currently installed version 6. Not many software applications do that. It requires one to have a separate installation on another PC in order to become acquainted with a new version, and make comparison to the old one, especially with new store plugin versions as well. To run two versions side by side, this I understand, many software programs are unable to do that. But to run one version at a time, while the other sits dormant should have been a design objective with version oriented folder/project structure. I will need to dust off an old laptop I guess.

I really like Family Historian, but this "one and only one installed" version design irks me.

Ron

[Mark1834]

One option is to download the free FH7 trial version to a laptop and use that to evaluate your overall impressions of the new features before taking the plunge and upgrading your master copy. It won't run plugins, but all plugin upgrade usually involves is downloading a new FH7-compatible version. If your favourite plugin is not available for FH7, it will be either because it has not yet been updated (if the original author was not a beta tester), or will not be upgraded if its function is no longer required. If that is the case, post details here for more specific advice.

[ronk]

Yes, but even the 'trial' version needs to be on a separate device, does it not? And I doubt that the plugin I am looking for, the Export to Gedcom for TNG, is not going to be needed with FH v7.

Ron

[ronk]

I just checked v7 plugins and don't see the Mr. Tate's excellent Export to Gedcom for TNG plugin yet. I had thought it might be there, since we were approached for testing back in August and might have been ready by now. (I was not able to be a tester since all the slots were filled). But I suppose v7 is such a significant upgrade that some of the more complex plugins will take more time than others. Any idea when it will be ready?

I cannot proceed with 'live' v7 until it is ready since I export all data regularly to TNG.

Ron

[tatewise]

Ron, the Export Gedcom File plugin is one of my 3 dozen plugins that have needed updating and testing.
I am gradually working through them and adding them to the new Plugin Store with new Help pages where necessary.
It may take me some time...

The Export Gedcom File plugin poses particular challenges for products such as TNG and FTM that I do not possess as there are no free trial versions. Testing has been somewhat limited for me during FH 7 beta testing.

[LornaCraig]

I find it more than disconcerting that version 7 overlays the currently installed version 6.

All previous upgrades of FH have worked in the same way. It does have the advantage that if you have made any customisations in V6 they will be retained (apart from possibly a very small number which would not be compatible with V7). It also avoids the danger of accidental data corruption because, as Mark has said, a FH7 data file should not be opened in FH6.

[ronk]

The Export Gedcom File plugin poses particular challenges for products such as TNG and FTM that I do not possess as there are no free trial versions. Testing has been somewhat limited for me during FH 7 beta testing.

Hi Mike,
I surmised that delays would be involved, especially with your extensive list of plugins. For the Export Gedcom plugin, should you reach a point where beta testing is needed, I would be willing to help. As to not having the TNG product, I would even be willing to purchase a copy for you at $34.99 if that's a holdup (but I suspect available time is the greater constraint)

[ronk]

All previous upgrades of FH have worked in the same way. It does have the advantage that if you have made any customisations in V6 they will be retained (apart from possibly a very small number which would not be compatible with V7).

I presume the 'customisations' you refer to are not plugins, but various custom settings selected within v6 and stored in a settings file which will be carried over. Yes, I understand reasoning behind Simon's only allowing one version, with support being relieved of the complex issue of one version getting in the way of another because of user error with data files.

Ron

[ColeValleyGirl]

the 'customisations' you refer to are not plugins, but various custom settings selected within v6

Yes -- installing V7 over V6 allows you to retain most preferences, all custom facts, flags, diagrams, website settings, property box customisations (if you decide to retain the ones you have done -- for some thing you may not), queries, reports (although some tweaking will be needed).

[AdrianBruce]

... I find it more than disconcerting that version 7 overlays the currently installed version 6. ... Not many software applications do that. ...

I for one don't feel that I can quantify how many apps do or don't overlay the previous version, but my personal impression is that very few of the apps that I use will truly allow old and new to be installed together. Sure, one can install them in a new folder but that's about it.

I'd suggest that the file association will inevitably point to the new version and anything in the Registry that is not explicitly version-named, will direct itself to the latest. I'm sure you could start the old version quite happily and get it to open a file but I have no confidence whatsoever that sub-apps and routines that are, down a level as it were, will continue to be the old ones. Anyone might be running a mix of old and new even if they successfully enter the old app at the top level. I don't think you'd know.

If I did want to run old and new side by side - and there are good reasons why one might - I think I'd prefer to use a free VM (such as Oracle Virtual Box) and install it in there - though that does need a Windows licence lurking around.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Add in the potential for opening a project in the wrong version and suffering the consequences. Of course, people with both versions would be hugely careful... but a lot of users wouldn't realise they'd got two versions and tears would ensue.

[Mark1834]

It’s worth pointing out that nobody outside the select Calico Pie inner circle of invited developers (if indeed such a group even exists) has any access now to draft plugins, language packs, or Data Entry Assistants posted during the beta testing. They therefore have to be reposted here for the general FHUG community to run with and test.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Most of the DEAs are already in the plugin store; I'm about to post 2 new ones for testing.

The language packs are also in the Plugin store.

Standard plugins updated for V7 are filtering through to the plugin store as fast as the authors can work.

[E Wilcock]

If you want to see which plugins have been upgraded to V7 compatibility, see https://pluginstore.family-historian.c ... rd-plugins

I have been to this link several times. I searched for V.7 and got not found.
All my plug ins were deactivated unless one selects one to Edit, Then the word disappears.
Does this mean one can then run that one as usual?

[ColeValleyGirl]

That link **only** lists plugins that are already V7 compatible -- no need to search. (Also you would need to search for V7 not V.7)

Editing a plugin as you have done does not make it safe to run -- please check in the store first.

[tatewise]

A Search for V7 does NOT list all the V7 compatible plugins.

You must either use the Plugins + droplist at the very top of the page or after a Search check the Family Historian Version(s): listed under each Plugin includes V7.

Any custom plugins that you have written or have been written for you may not work in FH V7 even after selecting Edit to activate them. If you have a significant number of plugins that were not published in the Plugin Store, it may take some time before the author has time to look at them for you. We are all very busy.

[ronk]

... I find it more than disconcerting that version 7 overlays the currently installed version 6. ... Not many software applications do that. ...

but my personal impression is that very few of the apps that I use will truly allow old and new to be installed together. Sure, one can

I have quite a few apps (LegacyFamilyTree, TNG (Larago local host), photo editors, tax prep software, various utilities) which allow multiple versions installed on the same device. Some even permit running at the same time. To overwrite the old version and force one to a separate device or VM mode to check back on the previous version is quite a price for the user to pay to avoid data conflict. Yes, the user beware of mixing the data files, but each version should have its own designated data paths.

It was suggested to first download the trial version of v7 to review it before taking the plunge. However, I checked, and even that will write over v6.

Anyway, this is idle criticism at this point, since I have loaded v7 on a second laptop so I can become acquainted and review the product there and await the rewrite of needed plugins.

[Mark1834]

A word of explanation about what is actually happening when you install FH7 would probably help here. As has been mentioned before, changes in the Lua language and associated libraries between FH6 and FH7 mean that old plugins may not work under FH7. As a generalisation, a simple plugin designed for one job and with no user interface will probably run fine under FH7 with no modifications required (that was the case with all of mine). However, any plugin with an interface menu (most store plugins) or using updated libraries will need updating. Without that, at best it will just fail with an error message, while at worst it will crash FH7 without warning, which could lead to data loss or corruption.

Calico Pie needed a mechanism whereby they could prevent users accidentally running old plugins, while not disabling every simple plugin ever written, as that would be overkill. The approach they took was to have the FH7 installer rename any plugin already in your plugin folder. FH7 would recognise these renamed plugins as disabled, and display them but not run them.

That's all FH7 installation does. If you edit a plugin, import it using the plugin menu, or manually copy it into the plugins folder, it will run under FH7 with no constraint or warning. You are deemed to have taken responsibility for ensuring compatibility.

Plugin authors (and there are only 3 of them who have submitted new plugins in the past 5 years) are steadily working through their plugins, but that process has been going on since the summer, and takes time. There will also be older plugins written by authors who either are no longer active FH users, or were not beta testers and did not realise until now that they needed to review their scripts. If an old plugin is no longer supported by its author, but is still considered useful, it will be updated by somebody else. That is one of the great benefits of FH's open structure.

[AdrianBruce]

... I have quite a few apps (LegacyFamilyTree, TNG (Larago local host), photo editors, tax prep software, various utilities) which allow multiple versions installed on the same device. Some even permit running at the same time. ...

Ok - your mileage definitely differs from mine!

[ronk]

A word of explanation about what is actually happening when you install FH7 would probably help here.

Thanks Mark. My comments were more directed at the forced overwrite of FH7 over FH6, and I have said enough about that. As to plugins, I understand fully the need for time to adapt code to a new version. I was on the TNG (The Next Generation of Sitebuilding) test team for a recent update and we spent many days first testing the core product, and then additional days testing and adapting the many 'mods' (as TNG calls them). There, too, several authors there were no longer active, and team members had decide who would pick those up. There are more authors, though, with probably a couple dozen of them, but 5-6 of them are frequent contributors.

BTW...I found an apparent bug in a Calico Pie authored FH7 plugin, so have submitted a problem report to them. FYI, it is the Search and Results plugin. Unless I missed something, my testing shows the plugin not looking at IND Notes as it did in FH6.

Thanks for the detail on how plugins were handled in the update.

Ron

[tatewise]

Yes, that Plugin has fallen into a trap that I also found. For the new rich text Note fields, they have a new data type of richtext that was previously just text and must be detected as such. I am sure it will soon be fixed and my Search and Replace plugin when published copes with such rich text fields.