* surname variations

[mlfreyder]

If a name variation would apply to a person, why would it not apply to all of his children, grandchildren Etc. as well? There could be a checkbox to allow or disallow carrying it on as one wished.

Vogel, Voegel

Freyder, Freider, Freyther, Freither

These are all variants of the same name and used based on the education of the one doing the original recording.

So if I enter the three variants for my name why would the software not carry them over to my son and daughter?

We had a limited discussion on this in Plug-Ins months ago, but I can not find the topic to keep it going and Plug-Ins is not really the place unless one wants to go back and change data already entered like I would.

Along this same line was the fact that special characters with accents are not allowed to be entered in the Names/Titles window. So if I want to add dots over my "y" aka umlas, I have to do it in the main page and then move it to the variants window.

Mike Freyder

[tatewise]

I am not sure that everyone would want all Alternate Surnames to propagate to the children unconditionally.

Yes, it is odd that Alternate Names/Titles do not support entering accented characters by the FH methods.
You can use the Windows Character Map dialogue.
Perhaps you could start creating an Alternate Name/Title and then use Make Primary, enter the accents in the Primary Name, and use Make Primary to swap back.

[LornaCraig]

So if I enter the three variants for my name why would the software not carry them over to my son and daughter?

Because some of the variants might never have been used in any documents relating to your son or daughter. I only record variants which are actually used in at least one document referring to an individual.

By the way, the earlier topic you were looking for is here: Alternate Name Plugin (15841)

[tatewise]

I've read through that earlier posting. It ends with a question about an alternative solution using a shared linked Note, but neither Mike nor John responded to that suggestion, and so nothing further happened.

[mlfreyder]

So to Mike Tate's comment...
I am not sure that everyone would want all Alternate Surnames to propagate to the children unconditionally.

My original comment was...
There could be a checkbox to allow or disallow carrying it on as one wished.

To Lorna's comment on the frequency of use.
It depends on the region one is working on. Mine is in Alsace, where the government and priest/civilian come from various places and education.

Example: Vögel/Vogel, Voegel are used in the entire region from the 1660s to the 1790s by priest and then thru the revolution until civil officials settled on Voegel, for the most part. This holds true for a multitude of names. There is one branch of the Freyders where the priest entered Freyther, and that was it, from 1730s on Freyther was used for this one branch. Research wise, they are Freyders.

My problem is that there is not just one alternative by many

FH does a wonderful job of searching these alternatives, but using them is very difficult if one is recording the microfilms to data.

Ref old post, I left it at someone was going to address it when they finished the current project and get back to me. I never was anything else.

MLF

[mlfreyder]

Going back to the original post on plug ins...

Having the alternate names in a note field defeats the purpose unless when I try to filter my individuals it uses the note field as it currently does the alternate names.

MLF

[tatewise]

It depends on how you filter Individuals.
The Records Window option to Filter: on Last Name does not look in Notes, but a Query can and Edit > Find for Notes can.

The advantage of a shared linked Note record is you can just keep adding Surnames to the Note text in one place, and every Individual linked to that Note record is immediately associated with all those Surnames.
You just have to add the Note record to any new family member with a similar Surname.

So the Query would prompt for Surnames to search and you could enter Sattel, Settel, Settle.
The Query would list every Individual whose Primary Surname or an Alternate Surname or linked Note record matched any of the Surnames in the list. Try the ATTACHMENT Filter by Surname List.

It also allows specific Alternate Name fields to have Source Citations to show where that Surname was derived for that particular Individual.

[mlfreyder]

I think the best solution would be to have the software add the alternates once entered, and copy them until the user un selects it.

A check box in the Names and Titles window that
Allow alternates to be copied to children? Check for yes, uncheck for no.
Automatic like the software copies the Surname for children currently.

My 2 cents
MLF

[mlfreyder]

From Mike Tate...
Yes, it is odd that Alternate Names/Titles do not support entering accented characters by the FH methods.
You can use the Windows Character Map dialogue.
Perhaps you could start creating an Alternate Name/Title and then use Make Primary, enter the accents in the Primary Name, and use Make Primary to swap back.

Yes this is what I currently do. Very time consuming to add all the variations. Easiest way I found is to add a standard variation, copy/paste it several times and then switch back and forth back and forth making the special characters.

Keep in mind that I am staring down 140 pages of microfilm, with as many as 8 entries per page, some as few as 4. And that's on one book of one village.

MLF

[tatewise]

An important thing to remember is that it takes some time for new features to be added to the FH program.
If Calico Pie do not think it is worth the effort, then it may never happen.

Plugins can be added more quickly if some user is prepared to write them.
The feature you are asking for is not trivial so would take some effort.
Are you prepared to learn how to write Plugins to get exactly the feature you need?

The Query I have attached to my previous posting may give you a workable solution now!

BTW: I suspect the accented character bug may be fixed in FH V7 but we have had to wait years.

[mlfreyder]

Am I ready to write plug ins?
So I'll relate this to my RV. I don't mind making minor changes to enhance the enjoyment of its use, but installing a new engine because the current one will not take me to certain places... no.

I love a challenge but my main goal here is to get this data into a data file, and then export to the web for all to enjoy. If there is a Freither out there wanting to know if he is related to a Freyder, and he contacts me, and I run a filter looking for his grandparents, as the French say, viola or not. That result would depend on if I had the time to add Freither as an alternate as it should have been. Of course this is an example, I would know the Freyder question but there are too many other variants to even recall right now, without research.

My programming was limited to Commordore 64 Basic, and that was a long time ago.

You guys are great, thinking back to FTM days, heads and shoulder over them, just having someone to throw out these ideas to is wonderful as compared to days gone by.

I ran the surname plug in, related to this issue I don't see the connection.

MLF

[tatewise]

What "surname plug in" did you run? Please give its exact name.

OR do you mean the Filter by Surname List Query that I attached earlier, which explores the use of a linked Note record?
Have you understood how that technique works? I will give a quick explanation if you are interested.
(BTW: That is NOT a Plugin but a Query which are much easier to write.)

[mlfreyder]

Sorry correct the Filter by Surname List. Yes please do explain, so I make sure I'm on the same page as you.

MLF

[tatewise]

Ok, when you run the Query it will prompt for a Surnames list that must be separated with commas,
e.g. Sattel, Settel, Settle
It currently allows up to 5 Surnames but that can easily be extended.

It searches the Primary Surname and the first nine Alternate Surnames but that can be extended too.
If any Surname in the list matches any Surname of any Individual then they are included in the Result Set.
For a successful match, a Surname in the list must occur somewhere in a database Surname but it is case insensitive.

That produces a list of Individuals similar to a Records List filter search, but that only allows one Surname at a time, whereas the Query allows up to five.

The new feature is the linked Note record strategy.
In the Records Window, on the Notes tab, use Add > Shared Note and in its Text: box enter some surnames that are variants of Sattel, Settel, Settle either separated by commas, or one per line, however you like.
In any Individual Property Box open the Notes tab, click Add Note > Add Link to Note Record and choose that Sattel, Settel, Settle record just created.

That same Note record can be linked to as many Individual records as you like that have similar Surnames.
When you discover another variant of Sattel, Settel, Settle then add it the Note record either via the Records Window or Property Box via the Notes tab.
That new variant will now be associated with every Individual linked to that Note record without having to copy anything.

Now run the Query again and now it will list any Individual who is linked to a Note record that matches any of the Surnames entered in the list, as well as the Primary Surnames and Alternate Surnames as before.

[mlfreyder]

I see it, played with it, and will have to see over time how that works out.

From what I think now, is this query will be modified to add other columns of info, and maybe some rows to only include/exclude the villages I want to report on.

Can't say how much I appreciate the attention to my concerns and the quick response. Thanks Mike I'll let you know how this pans out.

[tatewise]

Yes the Query could easily display extra Columns for Alternate Surnames and the linked Note.
Also Rows filters for places could be added.