Family Historian User Group

Has anyone thought of doing a plug in to find and replace variations of names? Find one name and add all the possible variations for searching.

My situation is I moved from FTM where alternate names were not searchable. I have variations like Saettel/Settel/sAEttel with all the German umlats and variations. A find and replace for one will replace all in the "Names and Title" dialog box.

A plug in to find and replace with variations would be great with so many variations.

Mike Freyder or Vreider/Vreyther/Vreither/Vreider/Freider/Freyther/Freither (you get the idea)

Hi Mike. I'm not sure I understand what what you are searching for, and what you are replacing with.

I think you want to search for a variety of Names such as Freyder/Vreider/Vreyther/Vreither/Vreider/Freider/Freyther/Freither.

But what do you want to replace them with?
Do you want all those variations replaced with just one Name, or what?

Hi Mike

No, I want to search for one name and replace with all the variations.

Search "Michael Freyder"
Replace (add) with
Michael Vreider
Michael Vreyther
Michael Vreither
Michael Freither Etc.

The replace with names would be added as variations in the Names and Titles dialog box, each as a separate name.

Maybe "replace" is the wrong term, maybe search and add? or add variation? The variations would be added in a dialog box same as the replace is currently?

So as it searches for Freyder it would find Freyder, note the given name, and add variations with the given name and the listed variations? Too much to ask? I think FH would have something no other software can do, not that I've seen anyway.

For sure I'm not the only person with this issue, anyone that researches in Europe (well France and Germany) must encounter the same name issues.

Thx for respnding
Mike Freyder

If I am looking for someone in my database, I don't recall how I listed their name. Was it Freyder? Freither? Vreyder?

Currently typing in Fre brings all the variations but what if it was Vre? I have to do multiple lookups to make sure I have not forgotten or missed someone.

If I know all the variations and can do a search and "add" those variations then they will list all together.
M. Freyder
M. Vreyder
M. Freider Etc.

Freyder is just one example. Saettel/Settel/Sattel, Rohmer/Romer, Steimer/Steiner, Baur/Baehr, Konig/Koenig, Diehl/Thiel... and then there is the ae touching and the oe. Not even sure what to call those.
I can go on and on. I and Y are the same, Th and D, F and V.

Also the entry fields of the Names and Titles dial log box do not allow special characters like the data entry screen. Holding the "a" does not bring up the a with umlats. That would be required for a search and add routine.

Mike

Ah! Now the proposal is unfolding and getting more complex.

It now seems you want the Search to find anybody with a Surname that matches any one of the Variant Names.
That raises the question of whether the Search only looks in Primary Names or also in all Alternate Names?

Having found somebody, you then want to ensure each Variant Name exists in the Primary Name or an Alternate Name.

BUT it all hinges on your important criteria ~ "If I know all the variations". What if you don't know all the Variant Names?
How do you "make sure I have not forgotten or missed someone"? Maybe what follows solves that problem?

Putting that to one side, what happens when somebody matches any one of the Variant Names and already has a Primary Name or some Alternate Names that are NOT in that list of Variant Names?
Should those extra Names be added to the list, and added to the Alternate Names of everyone whose Names now match that longer list?

The problem of the Names and Titles dialogue box not allowing special accented characters must be reported to Calico Pie as a bug using the how_to:about#problem_reporting|> Problem Reporting procedure.
In the meantime, the workaround is to add such Names via the All tab and right-click Add Name.

I see your point but it is one the main frame computer has to decide on. our brains.

I'm doing research as well as indexing villages. I'm entering in 10s of 1000s names from villages and know what is a variation, or if I'm wrong, not.

To complicate things even further the software could have a "remembered if you see this add this as a variation", or it could be manual and I know that if I add a name I will have to go back and run the plug in again to catch the variations for the new persons added.

Currently... as I go thru the old records I see Settel and Sattel and know they are the same. I have to stop adding names and go into the dialog box and add all the variations for each person I'm adding. Say I come on a good Catholic family in France and they have 18 children as some do. I add papa and mama and then for each child I have to add all the variations of that name. It may be Settel for the priest in Sermersheim, but if I am looking for someone in Kertzfeld Sattel. Finding a birth record with a Francois Antoine Settel who is the son of Antoine Settel and Anna Reibel I have to search for Francois Antoine Settel, Sattel, Saettel to see if I already have FA in my list!!! These folks didn't stay in one village cradle to grave and moved to another church where they had more children (baptisms) and the new priest may spell it Settle. NUTS!

So I'm just thinking of covering as many bases as I can with one search and not missing someone. It is more labor intensive to come back later and see I have a Francois Antoine Settel, Antoine Settel and a Francois Sattel all the same person and have to merge them. With the unrelated issue of these guys wearing out their women and having 4 marriages to boot.

Understanding that most people approach their research differently than I this name variation issue must be common, and having a one plug in fits all will not be a good idea, if it will search and add a list each time I run it that would save me tons of time. For me... running it every 10 years or so would be enough. That would be two updates before children start having their own children.

Just a thought!
Mike

OK, I now understand what is required, I think.
But you did not answer the question of whether the Search only looks only in Primary Names or also in all Alternate Names?
These sort of fine details are crucial before committing to coding a Plugin.

It sounds like a whole family tree of such as Sattel/Settel/Settle will all end up with identical Primary/Alternate Names.

You may not have come across Soundex Names that would probably be of use.
For example, all those three Sattel/Settel/Settle names have the same Soundex of S340.
Also those Vreyder/Vreider/Vreyther/Vreither/Freyder/Freider/Freyther/Freither have only V636 and F636.

If you do accidentally enter the same person twice, are you aware of the Find Duplicate Individuals Plugin that is tolerant of variant names, etc, partly by using Soundex name matching.

I don't have the spare time to consider writing such a Plugin just now, but post again in about a month to remind me, and may be we can develop it together.

Good question, "Search only looks only in Primary Names or also in all Alternate Names?"
I guess if one had already entered an alternate of Sattel for Settel, then adding a duplicate alternate name wouldn't matter?

Yes I came familiar with soundex a long time ago using it to find census or passenger list out of New Orleans.

Is this bad? "It sounds like a whole family tree of such as Sattel/Settel/Settle will all end up with identical Primary/Alternate Names."

Be happy to help in any way I can. Am aware of the duplicate persons plug in, used it. With so many Francois Antoine and so many Anne Marie it hard to keep track of.

I'll ping you in a moth and see where you are in free time.

Thanks Mike, Mike

You are mixing up the searching with the adding.

The Plugin can search in both Primary Name and in all Alternate Names to find appropriate matches.

Then it can ensure all the required Names appear in the Primary Name and all Alternate Names without any duplication, and could even rearrange into a preferred order.

Yes, ping me in a month.

Now that is A plugin I would like to use

I have names such as
Callister/Collister
Faragher/Fargher/Faraker
Cowell/Cowle
Cain/Caine
Karran/Carran
Comaish/Comish

So I would find it very useful

OK John, sounds like it may be a worthwhile development, but what are your thoughts on my idea below?

Sorry, I forgot to reply to Mike's question:
Is this bad? "It sounds like a whole family tree of such as Sattel/Settel/Settle will all end up with identical Primary/Alternate Names."
No, not necessarily bad, but some users would only add Alternate Names with Source Citations of where used.
Whereas, you are adding the Alternate Names to everyone in the family as an aide memoir.
I wonder if another way is to link a Note record that lists all the alternative spellings?
It would be best linked to the whole Individual record so it would also show up on the Notes tab.
Then on discovering a new variant name it just means updating that one Note record without revisiting every Individual.
If necessary, a name search Query could easily interrogate that Note record as well as Primary/Alternate Names.

BTW: Mike, did you report that Alternate Name field accented character bug?

Not sure if this has been suggested.

Another option to the Search Any Name plugin, might be a table of Alternates (stored as project level plugin data) so that the search has a table of equivalents which could be used to match on.

tatewise wrote: BTW: Mike, did you report that Alternate Name field accented character bug?

This is a problem I have, tho in my case partly due to slack English data entry.

Some websites want one to search by typing German Umlaut free. Other of my entries entered with old computers use the convention of adding an e after the umlauted letter as in Loewenthal. Modern software lets one type Löwenthal but that is harder to do on line or in an email.

Yes Mike, I ran into this problem in my early days. I dont think we reported it as I didnt know how and I dont think it matters to Calico Pie.
I think you solved it for me by putting two name fields on the Main tab of the Property Box for a Person. because the accents then do work.
(Calico Pie did solve for me an accompanying issue that the fh accent wouldnt work at all on my research Lenovo Yoga lap top. They devised an alternate keystroke way of inputting the accents on my lap top)

Apologize for not answering Mike's question on reporting to Calico Pie, I have been busy with other yard clean up issues while the weather is good!

I will do it now.

My issue is that once in the Names and Titles dialog box entering a alternate name, holding down the "a" key no longer brings up the special characters, it just repeats the letter a until you let go.
Example: trying to enter an alternate for Settle as Sattle with umlauts over the a only gets me aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

I'll go back and find the link Mike was nice enough to provide and USE IT! Thanks so much...

Mike Freyder

What I meant to convey was that I believe Calico Pie do know about this. But they are not bothered.
I hope you get them to take notice.
And it does work in the top fields of that Name pane.
My other work round is to add an additional name by typing in rubbish characters "nnnnnnn" in the area where the accents dont work. Then select that nnnnn as primary name which brings it into the top name field on the additional name pane.
The accents work there so one can type in the additional name complete with accents, and then re-select the original name as the primary one (if you want to keep it in primary position)

I have reported this as an issue and they have been able to duplicate the problem and said they will address it.

From support...
"OK we have now confirmed that it is a problem. Thank you for reporting this. We have logged it for further investigation. Meanwhile, I suggest you add accent characters in (say) the Primary Name field and then cut them to the clipboard by selecting them and pressing Ctrl-X (or copy by pressing Ctrl-C). You can paste them where you want them by pressing Ctrl-V."

Hope they do it in the next release and an update...

Mike Freyder

Hi Mike Tate

Time to discuss this again? Another issue with this alternate name issue is do we populate it automatically to the children of the person?

Since my last name has variations, when my children are entered into the data base, does the same last name variations apply to them? I think they do. But it only applies to the last name, not the given names. Maybe a check box in the software that would turn on this feature? And... this is most likely a feature issue and not a Plugin issue. Where do we go to suggest this?

Mike Freyder

Mike and John, earlier I made an alternative suggestion that neither of you have responded to:

I wonder if another way is to link a Note record that lists all the alternative spellings?
It would be best linked to the whole Individual record so it would also show up on the Notes tab.
On discovering a new variant name it just means updating that one Note record without revisiting every Individual.
If necessary, a name search Query could easily interrogate that Note record as well as Primary/Alternate Names.

When a new family member is added, then the Note record would simply be added to them.

To elaborate further, there are other potential advantages.
The Note record could identify when & where each name variant was typically used.
That Note record could have Source Citations for each name variant.
Individual Alternate Name fields could still hold variant names where explicitly associated with that Individual with appropriate Source Citations.

That would avoid the need for a Plugin or FH enhancements.