Family Historian User Group

Please include fact definitions in the GEDCOM file via custom tags. Other programs do this, including RootsMagic and Legacy.

The fact definitions would include, at minimum, the fact name, label, template, and any associated roles and their templates. So, for Birth, the GEDCOM would include something like this:

0 _EVENT Death
1 _LABEL Death
1 _ABBR Died
1 _TEMPLATE {individual} died <of {cause}> {date} {place} {age}
2 CONC . <The death was witnessed by {role=witness}. >
1 _ROLE Witness
2 _TEMPLATE {individual} witnessed the death of {principal} {date} {place}

Welcome to the FHUG Johnny.

Although that is potentially feasible, I don't see what purpose it serves. Could you explain.

Those custom tags, like so many other proprietary custom tags, would mean nothing to any product except FH itself.
I believe the RootsMagic and Legacy proprietary equivalents only mean anything to them.

FH holds its fact definitions (like most other customisations) in simple plain text files, that can be exported and imported, and also edited or created by other utilities. So what does your GEDCOM alternative offer extra?

My upcoming GedSite program makes web sites from GEDCOM files. It is similar to my popular Second Site program, but Second Site works exclusively with TMG databases. GedSite works with GEDCOM files.

GedSIte understands sentence templates/definitions from FH, RootsMagic, and Legacy. FH includes templates in its GEDCOM file for sentence customizations, i.e., sentences overridden at the fact level, via the _SENT custom tag, and GedSite loads them and understands them. But... because FH does not include Fact Definitions in its GEDCOM file, the sentence templates that are not overridden are hidden from view.

RootsMagic and Legacy include the equivalent fact definitions in their GEDCOM exports, and those records include sentence and role definitions. In an upcoming release, I'll be adding support for the RootsMagic and Legacy fact definitions, and I was hoping to prompt consideration of the feature in FH. If not, FH users who also use GedSite will be stuck using sentences defined in GedSite itself. That's not the end of the world, but it's not as convenient as using the sentence templates maintained in FH itself.

Great idea Johnny.
May I suggest that I adapt my Export Gedcom File Plugin with a GedSite option that not only caters for FH custom Tags where necessary, but also adds default fact sentence tags similar to your earlier suggestion.

BTW: Are you aware that FH V6 now supports all Data References and FH Functions in Sentence Templates as well as Template Codes?

If you are in favour of this plugin approach, then I will move this thread to the Plugin Discussions forum, where your objectives will be achieved sooner than waiting for FH itself to be modified. That is the advantage of FH Plugins, to add functions without a new release of FH program.

This is why the advice at the top of this Forum is to explore other avenues before posting here, because there are often alternatives to updating FH which inevitably takes a long time, whereas its customisations can be employed much sooner.

Mike,

I am not very familiar with the FH environment. I've used the program, of course, but I am not an active member of the FH community and unaware of advanced usage techniques or how to best to work with Calico.

I am certainly not against extending a plug-in to provide the fact definitions in a GEDCOM export, but I am wary of giving up the Wishlist request. In a lot of software, and for a lot of users, plug-ins represent a barrier. Is it common for the average user to install one or more plug-ins?

Yes, I am aware that FH supports Data References and Functions in sentence templates. GedSite does not support them; it recognizes when they are used, rejects the sentence template, and uses its own tag type specific sentence in its place. GedSite's internal data model is quite different from FH and it's not practical to adapt Data References or Functions to work in that environment.

John

Most users who are advanced enough to want a web site, I suspect will be happy using plugins, you could use Mike's plug in or a variant which created a file which appended the sentence templates to the exported gedcom.

Resolving the sentences into "_SENT" tags on export might be easier and more efficient than exporting the templates as they will then be formatted using all the power in the program prior to being exported, especially as there is already support for resolving the sentences with a function.

I think Jane is suggesting that every Fact gains a _SENT tag that holds the narrative sentence AFTER all the Template Codes, Data References, Functions, etc, have been resolved such that just plain text sentences are exported. I think that would be quite easy to add into my Plugin.

Then GedSite does not have to understand anything about FH features, and just uses the sentences as they are.

If you visit the FH http://www.family-historian.co.uk/plugi ... ed-plugins page the number on the left against each Plugin is the number of downloads. My Export Gedcom File Plugin is about 12th.

I believe Calico Pie are quite happy to be contacted directly. Be aware that most entries in the Wish List have been there for many years and unlikely to ever get implemented.

Jane wrote:Resolving the sentences into "_SENT" tags on export might be easier and more efficient than exporting the templates as they will then be formatted using all the power in the program prior to being exported, especially as there is already support for resolving the sentences with a function.

Preformatting the sentence output doesn't really meet the objective and would disable several important GedSite features. For example, if a sentence template refers to a witness, GedSite inserts the person's name as a link. That is one of the more popular features of Second Site and I suspect it will be the same with GedSite. If the person's name is mixed in with other text, it's not possible for GedSite to detect it and make a link.

I'll probably add support for some of FH's data references so that things like "{%CUR~WITN>NAME:SURNAME%}" will work. I may support some FH functions. However, it's unlikely I'd ever cover everything for the reasons I mentioned earlier, so FH users will have to avoid template features that GedSite does not support or accept that GedSite will use its sentence for the fact. (GedSite's default sentences can be modified by the user.)

tatewise wrote:I believe Calico Pie are quite happy to be contacted directly. Be aware that most entries in the Wish List have been there for many years and unlikely to ever get implemented.

OK, I thought the wish list was a semi-offical way to request enhancements because the FH site mentions it (link). I'll send my request via e-mail and then move on to other pursuits.

Thanks for your and Jane's help and input.

I have attached a prototype Export Gedcom File Plugin Version 3.0.1 Date 16 Nov 2016 in .zip file.
Unpack it as a .fh_lua file before opening with FH.

It has a new GEDCOM export mode for (GSW) GedSite Web Builder.
(Alternative name could be something like (GSB) GedSite Builder Online.)

Checkout the Help & Advice for details.

Click the Export GEDCOM ... button to produce a Gedcom in Public\Export folder listed.

It essentially uses Legacy rules, plus it includes Fact Definitions as you requested.
(Long Sentence Templates have not yet been wrapped into CONC tags, but is this really necessary?)
Almost anything can be customised as necessary.

[EDIT: Attachment deleted.]

I have updated prototype Export Gedcom File Plugin Version 3.0.2 Date 17 Nov 2016 in attached .zip file.
[EDIT: Attachment now deleted.]

It exports fact definitions using the following updated record format:
0 _FACT BAPM-IE
1 _NAME Baptism
1 _LABEL Baptism
1 _ABBR Bap
1 _SENT {individual} was baptised {date} {place} {age}. <The godparents were {role(plural)=godparent}. ><The godparent was {role(single)=godparent}. ><The ceremony was conducted by {role=minister}. ><The ceremony was conducted by {role=priest}. >
1 _ROLE Godparent
2 _VERB Godparent at
2 _SENT {individual} stood as godparent at the baptism of {principal} {date} {place}
1 _ROLE Minister
2 _VERB Minister at
2 _SENT {individual} performed the baptism of {principal} {date} {place}
1 _ROLE Priest
2 _VERB Priest at
2 _SENT {individual} performed the baptism of {principal} {date} {place}
0 _FACT EVEN-ATTESTED-IE
1 _NAME Attested
1 _LABEL Attested (Military)
1 _ABBR
1 _SENT {individual} militarily attested {date} <at {_place}>

Most lines are self-evident but the _FACT tags have a cryptic format:-

Standard Gedcom facts use their standard tag such as BIRT or BAPM or MARR or CENS or DEAT, etc.
That is suffixed by -IE or -IA or -FE or -FA that stand for:
Individual Event or Individual Attribute or Family Event or Family Attribute.

Custom facts start with EVEN- and then a pseudo Gedcom tag with their _NAME on next line.
For the EVEN-ATTESTED-IE example above, the actual fact would appear as follows:
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Attested
If it were an Attribute (-IA) then its value will appear on same line after EVEN.
(FH uses the _ATTR tag for custom Attributes but the Plugin converts them to EVEN tags, but could easily use Gedcom Draft 5.5.1 FACT tags if preferred.)

There are other tags specific to FH that can be discussed later.

I have updated prototype Export Gedcom File Plugin Version 3.0.5 Date 29 Nov 2016 in attached .zip file following an Email dialogue with JohnnyCee.

[WARNING: Users must not use this Plugin for exports to GedSite because it is still experimental.]

[EDIT: Attachment deleted - now in Plugin Store.]

Hi Mike and John

I get an error with the new version of the plugin when I try to run it, with both the default settings and Gedsite settings opening in a new box saying "Not Enough Memory"

Is there anything I should be doing differently?

I'm hoping to use this to build a website using Gedsite, but just using the standard FH Gedcom files, doesn't give me the pictures attached to the file

Many thanks

Andrew

Hi Andrew,
Have you used the Plugin previously, and did it run OK?
Did the error message say anything else?
If you can post the full message details/screenshot it would help, even if they look very cryptic.

By default settings do you mean (Std) Standard GEDCOM 5.5 with (PART~LMO) Part Frames via Local Media Objects?

If you choose (FILE~REL) or (WIPE~ALL) for Multimedia do you still get the error.

If you only get the Not Enough Memory error when using Part Frames or All Frames options then it looks like you have a very large image file and not enough RAM for the conversions.

However, for GedSite its default will be an option similar to (FILE~REL) that needs no conversions and is designed to overcome your missing pictures problem that we know about.

In the meantime you can use the FH File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File with Use Full File Paths for Links and that will include pictures in GedSite.

Mike,
I get the "Can't complete, not enough memory" error in any export mode with media included. (I mainly use Gedstar Pro now)
I put this down to the fact I have 23,430 medi items.
Runs OK with Wipe-All.

On an aside. I mentioned before about Genes re-united and date ranges.
GR handles date ranges for birth OK as far as display is concerned, but uses the date to populate it's own , internal "Year Born" field, which does NOT handle date ranges at all and leaves the year Blank. Any chance of the GR export mode converting ranges to just a year?

Exactly what is the error message? Screenshot please.
Does it fail with the (FULL~LMO) and (FULL~ABS) modes?
It should not be the number of Media as memory should be reclaimed after each conversion.
Have you tried ticking Use JPEG file format for all Part Frames?

For Genes Reunited the Plugin currently adjusts dates to cope with a 30 character limit.
i.e.
FROM X TO Y becomes X TO Y
BET X AND Y becomes BET X & Y
Could you investigate by editing the exported GEDCOM file whether that 30 limit still applies.
Also please try setting different format Birth Dates within Genes Reunited to see how it copes.
What does it allow and recognise for anything like Date Ranges and resultant Year Born field.
If you export a GEDCOM from Genes Reunited does it include anything for the Year Born field?

Maybe this Genes Reunited dialogue should continue in the Plugin Discussions Forum.

I have experimented with Genes Reunited, and it still has a 30 char limit.
It recognises DATE ABT for Approx/Circa dates which get used in Year of Birth/Death with Tick if Unsure ticked.
So the next version of the Plugin will convert any Birth & Death Range/Period Date to Approx Date for the 1st date in the Range/Period and put the original Date into the local Note.

Thanks Mike

The updated Export Gedcom File Plugin Version 3.1 Date 05 Dec 2016 is in the Plugin Store.

Hi Mike

Thank you for all your help, with regards to your questions, my answers are as below (I hadn't used the plug-in before trying it for this)

By default settings do you mean (Std) Standard GEDCOM 5.5 with (PART~LMO) Part Frames via Local Media Objects? Yes

If you choose (FILE~REL) or (WIPE~ALL) for Multimedia do you still get the error. Not with FILE~REL or WIPE~ALL

If you only get the Not Enough Memory error when using Part Frames or All Frames options then it looks like you have a very large image file and not enough RAM for the conversions. I think that's probably the reason, I did try converting any .png files to .jpg files but this didn't solve the problem

The normal "export method" has worked well with me as you suggested and I've managed to produce a site with pictures using GedSite

Best wishes

Andrew

Andrew (and John),
It is clearly a problem with image library function when cropping part frame images.
If you can post the full message details/screenshot it would help, even if they look very cryptic.

It is probably not the type of file, rather the size of file that matters.
Could you possible spend a little time reviewing your Project Media folder for the largest image files.

Also try running the Show Project Statistics Plugin that looks for unusual Media characteristics.
They do not figure in the Plugin statistics grids, but at the bottom of the Result Set Report under Unusual Multimedia Format/Frame after closing Plugin.

The Plugin Store Export Gedcom File V3.1 should work for GedSite with the Multimedia (FILE~ABS) option.
You may have to use Restore Defaults button to get the correct current options.
Its advantage being that GedSite should then use narrative sentences based on your FH sentence templates.

I think that found it. In my enthusiasm to link all media, I'd made a link to a 300Mb .avi file of my parents' wedding. Removing this file and the plug-in worked with the default settings.

Many thanks for your help

Andrew

Andrew, thank you for finding that cause.
I have repeated the symptoms, and it should be fixed in the next version of the Plugin.
The method being used for copying files was unsatisfactory for large binary files such as videos, for reasons I do not yet fully understand, but an alternative method seems to work OK.