* Map Life Facts 3.3/4/5 questions

[BillH]

Mike,

I was really confused wasn't I? Thanks for sticking with me while I try to get a better understanding of all this. I played around all night and think i have a much better understanding of how this works.

In regard to the first question in my last post, I thought maybe if I had the option in FH set to Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes, that the plugin wouldn't update a place in FH even if I geocoded it in the plugin. This appears to be incorrect. Why does the help suggest using this option if Database In: Place Records is used if it doesn't "protect" the FH lat/long values?

I guess at some level I knew that the plugin got all the places and addresses from FH right away. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that earlier.

One thing that was a bit strange is that I first set the options to Locations From: Place Fields only and Database In: Place Records. The plugin showed 82 Plotted, 2398 Manual, and 2480 Total. This despite the fact that FH still has 2481 places. I closed the plugin and restarted it and then it showed 82 Plotted, 2399 Manual for a total of 2481.

Thanks to your explanations I see how you can't really add up the numbers to compare them. Also I can see why some "switched" from being Manual to No Data. Indeed many of the places are used only with an address. When I looked at the place list in the plugin and clicked on Next Unplotted, all of them were address/place combinations.

I think I figured out why the 82 Plotted became 80 Plotted. I found the 2 locations that were in FH as tentative, but not showing as Plotted. They didn't have any extra spaces in them.

Los Olivos, Maricopa County, Arizona, USA
Springfield,, Tennesse, USA

Both of these are used in FH only in conjunction with an address, never alone. I think that explains why they were not counted in the Plotted total. Because of the address they got "switched" to the No Data total.

A couple of new items.

After I was all done creating the Address ~ Place database I went into FH and corrected one Tentative place name from Jeffersonville,,,USA to Jeffersonville,,, USA (adding a space after the last comma). When I went back into the plugin, the Plotted count had decreased from 80 to 79. I then selected that location and clicked on Geocode Plot This Location. It then switched to Plotted again. I looked at the lat/long values and they were no longer the same as they are in FH. Is there a way that I could have gotten the location back to being Plotted while maintaining the FH lat/long values? Really I just wanted to re-mark it as "tentative" since all I did was rename it, I didn't want to recalculate lat/long values.

In the plugin, when I clicked on the Next Plotted button, it actually took me to the next Manual location. It seemed to do exactly the same thing as clicking on Next Manual.

Would it be possible to have the Geocode Location Plots tab say Tentative instead of Plotted and to say non-Tentative instead of Manual if a person has selected Database In: Place Records? I think that would be less confusing.

Thanks,
Bill

[tatewise]

This is all good feedback, because it is always difficult to imagine how users will interpret all the options and features.

The advice to tick Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes is to prevent FH upsetting the non-Tentative lat/long values. I felt there was enough protection already built into the Plugin. Remember the Manual status was where the lat/long values had been deliberately adjusted manually, and would not want them geocoded, so they are easily excluded from all the Plot... options. Does this need to be made clearer in the Help & Advice?

The small difference in the Statistics is caused by Place Records that are NOT associated with any Place fields. Initially in the Plugin, when Database In: Plugin Data Folder applies, its Place names are derived from Place fields, mainly because that makes my Plugin script the same in both FH V5 & FH V6. When you switch to Database In: Place Records it does not pick up the Place names only in Place Records until the Plugin is restarted. I will look again at the switch-over script to see if the extra Place names can be picked up then.

Regarding the Address ~ Place database Place name change, remember there is no synchronisation between FH and the Plugin. FH uses its Place Records while the Plugin uses its Plugin Data Folder. When the Place Record name is changed, all the Place fields also change. The Plugin gets its Place names from those fields, so it adds a new unplotted Place name, and removes the old Place name that no longer exists, albeit only different by one space. The Plugin is not currently designed to recognise that two Place names differing only by a space in certain positions adjacent to commas are actually the same location.

If you went back to the Place Fields only and Database In: Place Records mode, used Copy Place Database, and switched back to Address ~ Place mode the values would be the same for the moment, but still not synchronised.

Your description of Next Plotted and Next Manual is exactly as designed and as it always has been. Hover cursor over the buttons and that is what they say. However, I will consider changing Next Plotted to just find Plotted values and not Manual values.

I did consider changing the Plugin to use Tentative and Non-Tentative plus Standardized instead of Substitute, when Database In: Place Records. It affects not only the Statistics, but also three Next... buttons, and the Help & Advice text and screenshots. So I decided that might be confusing, especially when switching between Plugin database modes. What would be easier is to adjust the popup tooltips when the cursor hovers over the Statistics, Substitute, and Next... buttons.

[BillH]

Mike,

I think as you say that there are enough ways to protect the non-tentative values. I was just wondering what the suggestion was intented for. You might add that to the help.

If you are not able to make the switch-over script see the extra names at that time then maybe you should add wording in the help that you have to restart the plugin to refresh things before relying on the stats.

I had forgotten that the buttons always worked like this. I do think it would be nice to be able to find the next tentative location so I can fix it. Another option might be to add another button so you have Mapped (all mapped locations), Plotted (tentative), and Manual (non-tenative) or something like that. I know that there isn't much room for another button however.

As far as changing names goes, fixing the tool tips is probably good enough although changing the names would be more clear I think. I have many non-tentative locations where I didn't manually move them. If FH had the right lat/long values already I just marked the place non-tentative. In any case, now that I know how it works I should be fine, but a new user of the plugin might be a bit confused at first.

A new question.

Last night I was looking at some things in Database In: Place Records. When I went back in to the plugin this morning I changed back to Database In: Plugin Data Folder expecting to see the same Plotted and Manual statistics that were there last night. Instead all the stats were 0 except for No Data and Total. Do I have to re-copy the place database every time I change to the Address ~ Place database from Place Records?

Thanks,
Bill

[tatewise]

I have fixed the switchover script to include all Place Records when that is chosen.

I have changed the Next Plotted button to only traverse Plotted locations.

I have altered the Tooltips so they refer to Tentative Plotted... and Non-Tentative Manual... and Standardized Substitute....

I would be happy to change the name Manual to something such as Precise or Certain (non-Tentative is horrible). Have you any other suggestions?

I cannot reproduce your symptoms when switching between Place Records and Plugin Data Folder. The Statistics are always what I would reasonably expect.

Also I cannot reproduce the WARNING! BEWARE! message you reported a few days ago when switching to use Locations From: [Address] ~ Place and Database In: Plugin Data Folder. I said then I thought it was a hangover from previous switchover scenarios, but when I checked everything seemed OK. Do you still get that Warning message?

[BillH]

I would probably go for either Certain or Definite. I agree that non-tentative is not good.

Maybe it isn't switching from one to the other that is the problem. At this point, if I start the plugin and set the options to [Address] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder, everything shows as No Data. That seems weird because if I look at Map Life Facts.loc there are entries in there that do have lat/long values. Shouldn't these be showing as such on the Geocode Location Plots tab? Would it help if I sent you my file?

As far as the warning, I am not getting it now. I believe I only got it when I first set up the Address ~ Place database. I don't want to go back and start over at this point because I'd like to try to figure out what is going on with the problem in the last paragraph first. But then I can easily test to see if I get the warning again.

Bill

[tatewise]

The Map Life Facts.loc file holds all 3 sections discussed above: Place only, Address only, and Address ~ Place.
The details are held in nested tables identified by table numbers such as {12}.
The file typically starts with Table: {1} something like this:

Code: Select all

return {
-- Table: {1}
{
   ["Encoding"]="UTF-8",
   ["BOTH"]={2},
   ["ADDR"]={3},
   ["PLAC"]={4},
},
-- Table: {2}
{
},
-- Table: {3}
{
   ["Bletchley Park, Wilton Avenue."]={5},
   ["Cheltenham General Hospital"]={6},

where ["BOTH"]={2} is Address ~ Place and the other two are obvious.
In the above example Table: {2} is empty and Table: {3} lists Address only entries.
The details for "Bletchley Park, Wilton Avenue." are in Table: {5} much later.
e.g.

Code: Select all

-- Table: {5}
{
   ["sub"]="",
   ["mod"]="Manual",
   ["lat"]="53.4083714",
   ["lng"]="-2.9915726",
},

So you should be able to determine whether your Address ~ Place / ["BOTH"] entries actually have any Lat/Lng values.
The Lat/Lng values you have seen may belong to ["ADDR"] or ["PLAC"] table entries.

[BillH]

Mike,

Yes, you are right, the lat/long values I am seeing are for the PLAC table. The ADDR table is empty. The BOTH table is populated, but there are no lat/long values for the table. Last night there were locations showing as Plotted and Manual. All I did last night was to close the plugin. I didn't even close FH. This morning when I started the plugin again, there was nothing in Plotted and Manual. Any ideas what might have happened?

Bill

[tatewise]

I am sorry Bill, but cannot explain that.
The only thing that would clear all ["BOTH"] values is the Erase Addr ~ Place Database button, but that has a warning popup message.

Regarding alternative names for Manual what about Assured or Defined?

[BillH]

I am sorry Bill, but cannot explain that.
The only thing that would clear all ["BOTH"] values is the Erase Addr ~ Place Database button, but that has a warning popup message.

Wouldn't that have also cleared out the values in the PLAC table as well?

Of the two options, I think I like Defined better.

Thanks,
Bill

[tatewise]

No, Addr ~ Place means just the "BOTH" table.
There are two other buttons to erase just the Adress Fields only "ADDR" or erase just the Place Fileds only "PLAC" tables, to the left of the one we are talking about.

[BillH]

So now I am a bit confused again.

I thought the PLAC, ADDR, and BOTH tables were only used if you select Database In: Plugin Data Folder. So if I understand correctly, BOTH is for all options other than Place Fields only and Address Fields only.

So how did my PLAC table get populated. I only used the Place Fields only option with Database In: Place Records, not with Database In: Plugin Data Folder.

I'm thinking at this point I need to start all over again. This will also give me chance to see if I get that error message again.

Bill

[tatewise]

The "PLAC" table gets populated internally within the Plugin when it loads Place Records, so it can geocode the Lat/Lng and perform other operations efficiently without constantly interrogating the FH Place Records through the Plugin API, which would be very inefficient.

Similarly, if Source or Repository Records were chosen, the same rationale would apply for them too.

The Plugin always saves all three of its internal tables, so what you are seeing in Map Life Facts.loc in the "PLAC" table are the Place Record values when the Plugin was closed.

[BillH]

Mike,

OK... thanks for the explanation.

I started over. I deleted the Map Life Facts.loc file. I started the plugin with the options set to Place Fields only and Place Records. I switched to [Address] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder. Then I used Copy Place Database. All the stats look OK on the Geocode Location Plots tab. The Map Life Facts.loc file has lat/long values in both the BOTH and PLAC tables.

I didn't get that same warning message, so I'm not sure what I did before. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I get it again.

I'll keep playing around and see what happens.

Thanks for all your help.

Bill

[BillH]

Mike,

I tried geocoding some some of my Norway places with accented characters. It does seem like it does a bit better on them than I remember from earlier versions, but I'm not sure. In any case, it seems to work pretty well right now.

Thanks,
Bill

[tatewise]

Here is an updated V3.5 dated 29 Dec 2014 incorporating all the changes we have discussed.

[BillH]

Mike,

I installed the new version and quickly came across a problem. Again I lost all my lat/long values for [Address] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder. They were there when I shut down the old version and now they are gone. Didn't click on any buttons anywhere.

I did notice that the help still says Manual instead of Defined in its screen shots and verbiage. I'm guessing you haven't had time to look at that yet. While I like the change, if changing to Defined from Manual is too big of a pain, feel free to change it back to Manual. The tool tips are probably good enough.

I like the change to the Next Plotted button functionality. Thanks.

Bill

[tatewise]

OK, I will look into that loss of data problem tomorrow.

[tatewise]

I think the attached V3.5 dated 30 Dec 2014 fixes the identified problems.

[BillH]

Mike,

I installed the new version. I had the options still set to [Address] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder. The stats showed the same as with the previous version. I then tried to change to Place Fields only and Place Records. The plugin immediately popped up the following.

image1.jpg (54.87 KiB) Viewed 8829 times

Now the options show Place Fields only and Place Records, but what is showing on Geocode Location Plots are the stats and locations for [Address] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder.

Bill

[tatewise]

Whoops! Sorry! Will take a look at that.

The mechanisms involved with switching between modes is proving to be more complex than I first imagined, partly because Place Records is a special case just for Place Fields only, while the Storage In option for the others must be retained. Taking into account the Source/Repository options there are many combinations, but I will get it solved eventually...

[tatewise]

I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the Plugin, and I could not repeat the symptoms.
But I have added some defensive checks & balances in case the database is not quite what is expected.
It may simply be that with the various updates and occaisional failures the odd Location may not be quite as it should be.

Anyway try the attached V3.5 dated 01 Jan 2015.

[BillH]

Mike,

I erased the Address ~ Place database and used Copy Place Database to start over again. I selected [Addresss] ~ Place and Plugin Data Folder and everything looked good. I then switched to Place Fields only and Place Records and got the following:

image1.jpg (58.5 KiB) Viewed 8787 times

I didn't get any other messages or warnings. Again, when I went to Geocode Location Plots the wrong statistics were showing.

Looks like the same error although the line numbers are different.

Bill

[tatewise]

Yes, the cause of the error does appear to be the same, but analysis of the code suggests the failure mode is impossible.
I am wondering if it is something unusual about some Place names, so I have inserted a diagnostic message where the 'impossible' problem arises in the hope it will throw some light on the problem.
If the message arises it says Problem with Location: and reports the Place name.
Click OK to continue with a blank entry for that Place.
If you could investigate what might be unusual about the reported Place it might give me some clues.

[BillH]

Mike,

I have another question.

I installed the new version and went in and things looked fine although it showed [Address] ~ Place with nothing selected for Database In:. I selected Plugin Data Folder and it gave me a warning about changing databases. I clicked on No. Then I selected Place Fields only and Place Records. I got the warning and clicked on YES. The stats looked fine. It may be that I have to erase things and start over to get the error message window. I'll keep looking at the plugin.

Then I closed the plugin. When I restarted the plugin I got the following from FH.

image2.jpg (12.46 KiB) Viewed 8778 times

I've never gotten that before when using the plugin. I didn't change anything other than to change the database back to Place Records in the plugin. Why would FH think my database needed saving. I answered NO and the plugin started. I closed the plugin and then closed FH. FH did not ask me if I wanted to save my database.

Any ideas what might be happening here? I don't want the plugin changing my FH database if I don't re-geocode something.

Bill

[BillH]

Mike,

I kept playing with the plugin and your new error window did pop up when changing to Place Fields only and Place Records.

It popped up the following window.

image3.jpg (9.04 KiB) Viewed 8775 times

I clicked OK and it popped up another. I kept clicking on OK and it kept popping up more errors. I did this at least 30 times and then gave up and killed the plugin using Task Manager. I think it was going to give me an error on every place in my place records. As far as I can tell there is nothing unusual about my place names.

Would it help if I sent you my Map Life Fact.loc file or the places part of my GEDCOM file?

Bill