* Need GEDCOM export suggestions for FH to GedSite

[cjdenbow]

As mentioned in another thread, after experimenting with TNG, I've decided to focus all my genealogical web production energy on GedSite. I've been using Mike Tate's nice GEDCOM export plugin, for uploading to my GedSite site. For a few months recently I fiddled once again with trying to use TNG but that was a complete exercise in frustration, so I went back to GedSite. In the past, when my genealogical program was TMG, I used John Cardinal's excellent SecondSite program. So, I'm kind of familiar with the basic concepts of these programs. They certainly make it easy to maintain a website for your genealogical data.

In using Mike's export plugin I set it up using the defaults that John Cardinal recommends in his GedSite documentation.

I was advised not use "person notes" at all, and as had been said here, substituting {inline-note} for {note}. That latter was quite a help and eliminated a good deal of "syntax weirdness" that I was experiencing. Since I didn't have that many Person Notes, I converted them all to Fact Notes. This also helped. However, some abnormalities remain; in the screenshot below, changing from Person Note to Fact Note eliminates the footnote and one of the extra periods, but the person name still appears on a separate line. The other extra period is eliminated by using {inline-note} instead of {note}. I was also able to eliminate the repetition in the Zanesville Times-Recorder reference.



I also had an issue with a hyperlink in a note that works in FH, but is eliminated in GedSite. That's not a big issue, but don't know if there's a way to make this work in GedSite, or if it's just not a supported function.

I know that are some other GedSite users on this board, and perhaps some of them have run into similar issues and might have tips on how to get an optimum GedSite export from FH. Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.

Carl

To see what the page referenced in the screenshot above looks like now with the changes I've alluded to looks like now you can look here: https://denbowtree.org/g1/p45.htm#i1124

[tatewise]

Carl, I'm not entirely sure whether you still have any problems and whether you need any assistance.

I suspect hyperlinks within Notes are not supported in GedSite.

If you need help with a particular feature then please provide an example of all the significant details.
e.g. Provide the Fact details and any Templates that apply together with an explanation of what is going wrong and what you hope to achieve.
i.e. Provide an example Fact Note with its Source Citation and the Sentence Template and Source Template Footnote Format template, plus the text produced.

[cjdenbow]

Thanks, Mike, and I can supply other specifics as I move along, but the one cited in post above is still a mystery to me. Why do I get in the second paragraph a repeat of the full name of Elmer Denbow and no word wrap. It should at that point be a sentence starting with "He . . . " If you look at the link I provided to the current rendering and compare it with the screenshot you can see that while many issues are taken care of (described in my previous post in some detail) this weird repetition of the full name with nickname is not. I kind of wondered if there is some other type of note that GedSite is seeing as a Person Note. That's my only guess as to what's causing this problem. Do you have any idea what might be going on? Thanks. -- Carl

[tatewise]

I need to see what is producing that text. Is it a Sentence Template? What is the original text in the fact?
If you show me all the components that are involved in creating that text I can start identifying an explanation.

[cjdenbow]

I will try to figure that out and get back to you. It's a mystery what is producing that repetitious text. The sentences is produced by several facts which are placed in a more or less chronological order.

For starters here are a few details, perhaps not the granularity that you need.

Here's the list of Notes involved:


Here's the note that appears right after the problem entry of the duplicated name:



The sentence structure of that note directly above uses this template:
{individual} <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 1")}> {inline-note} {date} {place}

The link in that sentence is not the problem. The full name being repeated with no word wrap occurs with or without that link.

So you can graphically see the issue, here's what the GedSite page for this individual looks like now:



Maybe this is at least a start. Please tell what additional detail that you need to ferret this out.

Thanks so much.

Carl

[tatewise]

Thank you; that moves things forward. Please answer all the following questions.

The Sentence Template for the 1st Note fact is local to the fact Sentence box rather than in the Tools > Fact Types... definition for the Note fact. Is that intentional?

Does the 2nd Note fact use an identical local fact Sentence box template or the Tools > Fact Types... definition for the Note fact?
If the latter, what is that Sentence Template definition?

If you use Publish > Narrative Reports > Individual Narrative for Elmer DENBOW what do those Note fact sentences display?
Do they have the same duplicated name followed by a line break or not?
A screenshot would be good.

I suspect part of the problem is that Gedsite probably does not support the =Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 1") function.

[cjdenbow]

Thank you; that moves things forward. Please answer all the following questions.

The Sentence Template for the 1st Note fact is local to the fact Sentence box rather than in the Tools > Fact Types... definition for the Note fact. Is that intentional?

Hmm . . . I had thought that I had used the Tools > Fact Types . . . definition. Maybe at some point I edited in trying to figure out the problem and forgot to put it back to the original. I do remember that nothing I did in that regard impacted the issue at hand.

Does the 2nd Note fact use an identical local fact Sentence box template or the Tools > Fact Types... definition for the Note fact?
If the latter, what is that Sentence Template definition?

The template was slightly different:
{individual} <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 2")}> {inline-note} {date} {place}

I believe now that I think about it more I'm pretty sure that in the first instance I had changed "Principal 2" to "Principal 1" to see if it effected the outcome of the export and it did not.

If you use Publish > Narrative Reports > Individual Narrative for Elmer DENBOW what do those Note fact sentences display?
Do they have the same duplicated name followed by a line break or not?
A screenshot would be good.

No, it does not exhibit this issue.

I suspect part of the problem is that Gedsite probably does not support the =Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 1") function.

Maybe not {individual} <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 2")}> {inline-note} {date} {place} either?

Thanks, again, for helping me with this issue.

Carl

[tatewise]

So the problem is entirely in the way Gedsite handles the Sentence Templates.

I suggest you make both Note facts use the global Tools > Fact Types... definition for the Sentence Template.
That may fix the duplicated name problem.

Gedsite almost certainly does not support the =Witness(...) function, so if there are still layout problems try removing that from the global Sentence Template to see what happens.
i.e. Remove the entire <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 2")}> fragment.

Do any of your Note facts actually have a Fact Witness with the Role of 'Principal 1' or 'Principal 2'?

[cjdenbow]

OK, that did seem to be the heart of the problem. I removed the <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 2")}> fragment from the global sentence template and the layout now looks much better. The paragraph word wraps properly. I still get the full repetition of the name instead of simply "He . . ." but it does look much better.



Part of issue here might have been that the Note template was an import from TMG.

[cjdenbow]

Well, Mike, I now have another template problem. This is probably a completely GedSite problem, but maybe its something that could be corrected by a modification of your export plugin. I don't know, but here's the issue:

I'm using the following sentence template for a Death fact:
{%CUR_PRIN%} died {date} {place} at the age of <{=AgeAt(%CUR_PRIN%,%FACT.DATE%)}> <{note}>

In FH it produces the following sentence, which is OK with :
"George William DENBOW died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA at the age of 87."

However, in GedSite, the sentence is rendered thusly:
"He died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA, at the age of at age 87."

As you can see, for some reason, the "at the age of" becomes "at the age of at age 87." [It does, though, correctly put a comma after USA, but I can live without that.]

I can make this look OK on GedSite by editing the sentence template thusly:
{%CUR_PRIN%} died {date} {place} <{=AgeAt(%CUR_PRIN%,%FACT.DATE%)}> <{note}>

However, then the sentence in FH looks like this:
"George William DENBOW died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA 87."

I would like, if humanely possible , to make it look correct in both places.

Your thoughts?

Carl

[tatewise]

Firstly, I'm not sure why there are < angle brackets > around {=AgeAt(...)} and {note}
If you were going to use angle brackets it would be like this <at the age of {=AgeAt(%CUR_PRIN%,%FACT.DATE%)}>
As you have it now, if there is no Birth event Date or no Death event Date, then =AgeAt(...) displays nothing and you would get at the age of. with no age number. Whereas, with the brackets as I suggest the words at the age of will get omitted if either Date is missing.

One option is to use the {age range} code instead of <at the age of {=AgeAt(%CUR_PRIN%,%FACT.DATE%)}>.
Then if the Death event has an actual Age recorded it says aged 67 or if no Age is recorded it says aged 67-68 or if there is no Birth event Date or no Death event Date then it says nothing at all.
GedSite should handle the {age range} code in the same way.

The only other option is to report the =AgeAt(...) faulty inclusion of at age to John Cardinal because that is not how the FH function works.

[cjdenbow]

Thanks, Mike, I liked the sentence template, based on your suggestion:
{%CUR_PRIN%} died {date} {place} <at the age of {=AgeAt(%CUR_PRIN%,%FACT.DATE%)}>

It worked fine in FH. However, in GedSite it still renders:
"He died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA, at the age of at age 87."

To answer your question about the apparently extraneous extra < > brackets that was apparently the result of the FH import of my TMG dataset. It was classified as an "Event TMG Import." It looks like the FH TMG import routine did that in its attempt to transfer TMG syntax to FH syntax.

So, one step forward and one sideways!

I suppose this points to a problem in GedSite's interpretation of that sentence template, or something along those lines.

Thanks, again, to your excellent help.

Carl

P.S. In case you were wondering all of those "Oklahomas" are correct. Oklahoma City is in Oklahoma County, which is, of course, in the State of Oklahoma. Us Yanks have almost as many strange place designations as you Brits!

[tatewise]

As I said, a better alternative may be {age range} that needs no < brackets > or extra words and handles all the cases, plus it probably works correctly in Gedsite, so may be the best compromise.

IMO the Gedsite handling of =AgeAt(...) is wrong and should not produce the prefixed words at age.
Try reporting that problem to John Cardinal who is usually very helpful.

[cjdenbow]

When I use {age range} it comes out in FH as "aged 87" rather than "age 87," which sounds strange to my ears (and eyes):
"George William DENBOW died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA aged 87."

However, in GedSite it looks better:
"He died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA, at age 87"

So, I think that this is the best solution for now, until John Cardinal makes the appropriate changes in GedSite.

Thanks helping me work through this issue.

Carl

[NickWalker]

When I use {age range} it comes out in FH as "aged 87" rather than "age 87," which sounds strange to my ears (and eyes):
"George William DENBOW died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA aged 87."

However, in GedSite it looks better:
"He died on 1 May 1963 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA, at age 87"

So, I think that this is the best solution for now, until John Cardinal makes the appropriate changes in GedSite.

Thanks helping me work through this issue.

Carl

I wonder if this is one of those UK English vs US English things, because 'aged 87' looks correct to me, whereas 'at age 87' sounds wrong!

[cjdenbow]

I wonder if this is one of those UK English vs US English things, because 'aged 87' looks correct to me, whereas 'at age 87' sounds wrong!

I was wondering that too, because it's just the opposite for me. I thought it was either our corruption of the mother tongue or it was a weird FH syntax thing. To me "aged 87" sounds like something you might find on a vintage wine bottle as short for "aged 87 years." In U.S. English people die at a certain age. They don't die "aged" like a good wine. Reminds me of the last time I was in the U.K. and I saw a sign on a small set of stairs, "Mind the step." I immediately asked myself, 'What are steps going to tell me that I must mind?" In the USA, we'd simply say, "Watch your step." Seems much better syntax to me! But, I'm just a buffoon from the colonies, so what do I know!

[harold]

Must be a US thing. In this colony to the North, I grew up hearing both "aged 87" or "in their 88th year".

[cjdenbow]

Maybe it's because you are still part of the Commonwealth. Need to break those cords that still tie you with Mother England. You need your King George III moment. Throw some tea into Lake Erie or something . . . then we can teach you to speak American!

[harold]

You need your King George III moment. Throw some tea into Lake Erie or something . . . then we can teach you to speak American!

Thanks ya'll ... but I'm happy speaking Canadian. Eh!

[Woodg]

I lived in Canada (Nova Scotia) for a while. I once described Canadians as "partially metricated Americans". That did not go down well! I did leave on good terms, though. I wasn't thrown out.

[cjdenbow]

You need your King George III moment. Throw some tea into Lake Erie or something . . . then we can teach you to speak American!

Thanks ya'll ... but I'm happy speaking Canadian. Eh!

When I stopped to ask directions once in England near Winchester I remember the gentlemen I talked to said, "I can tell you are a North American, but are from the U.S. or Canada?" So, I guess our dialects of the English language sound very similar to Limeys!

[cjdenbow]

I lived in Canada (Nova Scotia) for a while. I once described Canadians as "partially metricated Americans". That did not go down well! I did leave on good terms, though. I wasn't thrown out.

I hope they never become "fully metricated"!

[harold]

I lived in Canada (Nova Scotia) for a while. I once described Canadians as "partially metricated Americans". That did not go down well! I did leave on good terms, though. I wasn't thrown out.

I am not surprised that one did not go down well.

[JohnnyCee]

Carl, et al,

To answer a question from earlier in the thread, GedSite does implement the FH Witness() function. Also, regarding pronoun use, GedSite has several settings that control when/if it will use pronouns in place of names. Those settings are in the Data.Names section.

The issue with the AgeAt() function may be a misinterpretation of the AgeAt() output on my part. I thought AgeAt() produced text like "at age NN" or something similar. However, Carl is including the literal text "at the age of" in the template, and the FH AgeAt() output does not include any text other than the age in years. After seeing the post above, and after testing with FH, I can see that GedSite should return only the years and not the literal text. I will fix that in the next release.

For {age} and {age range} and other places where FH includes text with the age calculation ("aged NN"), GedSite can be customized to produce the same or similar text. Carl should use the Utility > Strings > All Sites... command and then select the "Age" section. That section includes templates that control the output of various age-related constructs. They are in "Strings" so they can be customized for the output language (English UK, English US, French, etc.). They must use the GedSite template language because they are applied after GedSite has converted the incoming templates (might be FH7, RM, Legacy, etc.) to its internal form.

I expect to release an update to GedSite relatively soon and I will include the change in that release.

[tatewise]

John, thank you for changing the AgeAt(...) function in GedSite to match FH.

You say GedSite supports the Witness(...) function.
So, can you explain why it introduces a line break in the text between Elmer Forest ("Bob") Denbow and never married... as shown in the last screenshot within the posting posting.php?mode=reply&f=40&t=21790#pr136265.
When <and {=Witness(%FACT%,"Principal 1")}> is removed that line break is removed as shown in the screenshot within the posting posting.php?mode=reply&f=40&t=21790#pr136302.