* Exporting to RM8 using modified settings in Export to Gedcom Plugin

[MFriend]

For a while now I've been using the settings Mike created to export to FTM (converting link tags to _link so they are inserted into the proper url field in FTM.

I'm now at a point where I would like to do more with copying facts and sources to Familysearch. Since FTM doesn't do this I've been exporting to RM 8 so I can do the syncs with Familysearch. Here are the 'mostly' RM export settings I'm using (I have to select FTM and then modify the settings on the extra options page of the plugin to correspond to RM because I want the url included in the citation webtag just as is done with FTM).


Generally everything is getting copied to the correct fields just as I want them except one field:
In FH 7 there is the "Text From Source" field. When I copy it to to RM it gets inserted into the Source Comments field. If I do a straight RM export from the plugin it goes into the Source Text field in RM instead.


I want to keep the _link tags being exported (so that the citation field will have the url which gets stuck in the citation webtags as I want) but I'd like to have the Text from Source copied to the Source text field in RM. I spent a couple of hours trying different settings but couldn't get it to work. Am I missing one of the settings in the "extra options page" that would fix that?

Thanks for any help...
Matthew

[tatewise]

Unfortunately, you are tackling this issue from the wrong direction.

Set the plugin GEDCOM Destination: to (RMT) Roots Magic Tree with all the default settings.
That will ensure the Text From Source fields and all other fields are exported correctly for RootsMagic.

On the Extra Options tab, set the Subsidiary Note %d NOTE: option on the right to Weblink to _LINK URL ( FTM ) to invoke that special FTM conversion.

[MFriend]

Hi Mike:

Thank you for looking at this. Unfortunately I thought the same thing that if I selected the RM default settings and then changed just the Weblink to _LINK URL ( FTM ) it should work. There must be some code or something else though that causes the Weblink to _LINK URL ( FTM ) to not work with RM. Below are two pics. The top one is the one that has RM defaults set and only the Weblink to _LINK URL ( FTM ) modified. It results in no citation webtag and no media being attached to the citation. The picture immediately below that is with the modified FTM settings I had listed (which has almost everything set to RM on the other options page). It does attach the source media and the webtag to the citation (but puts the Text from source in the wrong spot).


Extra Info that might be helpful: I have used the "lumped source splitter" plugin to split the citations into sources (as opposed to lumping) so the media are source media, not citation media (In FTM remember the media has to be on a citation to import into Ancestry).
The citation webtag is from a local note file that is converted to an _LINK tag on export.

If you need more info please let me know.

Matthew

[tatewise]

My quick experiment produced the same Citation WebTags from _LINK URL using both methods.

Are you sure you are checking the same citation as one says Citation used 1 and the other Citation used 3.

Not sure about media, but suspect that if the Media is now attached to Source record then it won't appear in Citation.

Can you compare the snippets of GEDCOM that involve the _LINK URL for the two methods.
The snippets for the citation from 2 SOUR to 3 _LINK should be the same.

[MFriend]

Hi Mike:
There was a difference in the number of citations because when RM imports a gedcom, it multiplies the number of citations. I had run the citation deduplication on that one file. After you mentioned that I re-ran the export again so I could get a pic without the deduplication:


Here is a comparison with three versions of the url in question:


It appears to me that when exporting using the plugin with the _Link setting set, it is NOT exporting as an _Link but as a NOTE. This time I selected Roots Magic Tree and then on each screen clicked the reset settings tab (to make sure it was not saving my settings) and then changed just that setting on the other options tab:


I have the latest version of FH 7 and also the latest version of the Export to Gedcom plugin.
In case it is helpful, I also placed the original gedcoms into a zip file. Once you have downloaded it I will delete it:
https://familytreehelper.us/files-ftm-e ... export.zip

Oh, before I forget. You mentioned about copying the media from the source record to the citation. You had set the _link setting to do that during our discussion in 2021: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=19630

If you need anything else please let me know...
Thank you,
Matthew

[tatewise]

Hi Matthew,
After a little more investigation of the plugin and RM8 I now understand what is happening.
I am also now aware that RM7 and RM8 support the _LINK URL Source/Citation WebTags feature similar to FTM.

However, before discussing possible solutions could you explain why that _LINK URL entry is important to you.
The Export Gedcom File plugin does not claim to export every minute detail to use all features of the destination product.
I noticed that in RM8 in the Master Source ~ Source Text, Source Comment, or Citation ~ Detail Comment any URL are active hyperlinks, so what is the benefit of having the _LINK Source/Citation WebTags as well?
Bear in mind that only the first URL in a Source record or Citation Note will become a _LINK URL WebTag.
So if multiple URL exist in any of those fields it would be better to view the equivalent fields in RM8.

FTM is a different beast. It does not support many Source record fields nor the Citation Note field, and is very 'lumper' Citation focussed. So the plugin has several special conversions triggered by the GEDCOM Destination: FTM.
That includes copying Media and URL from any Source record to each of its Citations, which is what your GEDCOM snippets confirm. However, in RM8, opening the Master Source text, media, etc reveals the Media and URL, so IMO the FTM conversions are not necessary, unless you can convince me otherwise. Is it anything to do with migrating to FamilySearch?
I would not think so as the FamilySearch data is rather minimal.

BTW: The plugin has a GEDCOM Destination: (FST) Family Search Family Tree and the Help & Advice explains how to migrate that to https://www.familysearch.org/ but perhaps the RM8 sharing with FamilySearch is better?

[MFriend]

Hi Mike:
Yes the main reason I wanted the url placed into the citation webtag was because of familysearch. What happens with the regular RMT settings is that neither the citation nor the source webtag get populated. Family search has a web url field that has to be manually filled in unless the source has a source webtag. Then it gets filled in automatically. The only thing I have to add on the Familysearch site is to make sure a date gets added. (on a side note, the citation webtag does not help me on Familysearch. But Tom Holden at at the https://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.com/ site has an sql statement I run that transfers the citation webtag to the source webtag).

Plus I was sort of hoping that when I export a gedcom I could stop using FTM and instead use RM8 for uploading to both ancestry and Familysearch (I'm also planning on trying to use the new ancestry sync plugin by Mark Draper so was thinking of just using RM for syncing). Initially I was using FTM because it's upload of sources/citations looked much nicer on ancestry than RM (FTM would give just one citation even if linked to say 5 facts, while RM would give a separate citation for every fact it was linked to). But since I split my sources now instead of being a lumper, that advantage of FTM is gone.

You had mentioned that RM8 displays url links (as active). I find RM very annoying as a splitter that puts most of the main details in the source because every time I want to open a source I have to go to the citation, then click the arrows every time to open the source section FH is so much quicker to view source details.

Initially when I wrote this forum post I was just wanting to find out if I was missing a setting in the Export plugin that controlled whether the output for the Text in Source field went to the Source Comments or the Source Text field. Since fixing that looks like it would require a fair bit of work I'd say don't worry about it Mike. The FTM settings I use to export to RM will work ok and I can just ignore the source text being in the wrong field, not a big deal. ( I can probably find an SQLite statement on the SQLtoolsforrootsmagic webite to move it).

Thank you for your work with FH and all the help you provide folks here
Matthew

[tatewise]

That raises a number of discussion points.

It is unlikely that you can use the same exported RM8 database for both sync with Ancestry and with Family Search.

As explained in FHUG KB Synchronizing Your Tree With Ancestry to Exploit Hints, the sync with Ancestry uses a small subset of your data intended simply to maintain Ancestry 'hints'. That subset also excludes all Media.

I suspect you will want a relatively full set of your data migrated to Family Search, so perhaps we can explore the plugin GEDCOM Destination: (FST) Family Search Tree settings and modify it to include Source record _LINK URL. You also mentioned needing a Date but I'm not sure which one you mean. Then the RM8 intermediate step is not needed.
(I did try a quick migration to Family Search with a Source record _LINK URL but that seemed to have no effect.)

Since FH is your master database and you like its Source Citation displays why are the deficiencies of RM8 significant?

[MFriend]

My goal is to have two trees on Ancestry: The public tree with all the attachments, sources, media, etc. This one I have just been deleting and replacing every few months. This of course makes the hints impossible to use.

So my idea is to use the Ancestry synchronization tool for a private tree just for hints so I can get rid of the hints as I add them to FH and not have to go through them all every time I upload a new tree (My 'full' tree I just want to completely ignore the leaf hints on it).

The date field on Family search: every source has a date field. RM8 doesn't have or transfer over a date. So I usually have Familysearch open on one screen and RM on the other. After I transfer the source to FS, then I have to locate the source and add the date before FS will finish adding the source citation. I don't think there is anything that can be done for the because at least in the free form sources, there is no date field in the source area or in the citation area (unless I missed something).

[tatewise]

I think you may still be overlooking some aspects of those objectives.

The public tree on Ancestry cannot have any Media attachments if you migrate directly from FH.
Ancestry does not upload any Media automatically when importing a GEDCOM file.
Media can only be migrated with a GEDCOM exported from FH to FTM which then syncs with Ancestry (and preserves 'hints').

As I said earlier, the RM8 sync with Ancestry uses a small subset of your data so that RM8 tree would probably be unsuitable for syncing with Family Search. I think RM8 is used only because it is cheaper than FTM.

Can you explain how you sync RM8 with Family Search and where the URL and Date fields can be updated in Family Search?
As I said earlier, if I can understand this process then a direct GEDCOM export from FH to Family Search may be able to bypass RM8 completely.

[Mark1834]

As I said earlier, the RM8 sync with Ancestry uses a small subset of your data so that RM8 tree would probably be unsuitable for syncing with Family Search. I think RM8 is used only because it is cheaper than FTM.

To clarify - it can use as much or as little of your fact data as you wish. By default, it includes most of the standard GEDCOM facts, but this can be configured by the user. What it omits are all the extra stuff that are superfluous to its main purpose of managing hints, such as media, sources and additional notes.

The concept of a “full-fat” tree on Ancestry that is simply replaced from time to time for sharing detailed findings, along with a parallel simple version maintained by the plugin for managing hints seems like a good option to explore.

The more fundamental reason for using RM is that it has an open structure that can be manipulated directly by the plugin to ensure that the RM tree is identical to the corresponding data in FH (or identify any remain differences for manual correction).

By design, FTM databases are closed to access by any other app (and are encrypted to prevent it). You could try to manage your own sync process via FTM (and its Ancestry sync is much more powerful than that offered by RM), but it would be a rather complex manual process that would rely on apps working predictably with no options to correct any incompatibilities.

[tatewise]

Thank you for the clarification Mark.
If nothing else, Matthew needs Source Citations in the RM8 data that syncs with Family Search because he specifically mentions the Source/Citation ~ Text From Source and WebTags that he transfers.

So I reiterate that the same RM8 database cannot be used for both Ancestry sync and FamilySearch sync.

This is quite a complex topic involving at least four products (FH, RM8, Ancestry & FamilySearch).
So it will inevitably need careful consideration of exactly how the processes interact.

[MFriend]

Hi Mike:
Sorry there may be a misunderstanding. On ancestry I have two trees now. The main tree that has all the sources, media. The other tree I'm starting to use the sync plugin with FH. Since there are no sources or media with the sync tree on ancestry I already understood that for the syncing it would be different. What I was hoping was that the main tree on ancestry (with the sources/media that I completely replace every few months) that I'd just be able to upload from within RM using the same tree that I would use for FamilySearch (which would be a full tree with all the sources).

I think I am good now with my original question (on exporting the source text from FH to RM into the source text instead of source commentary). I have a really easy to use sql statement from Tom Holden that moves it from the source commentary to source text field so I'm all good now I believe.

Matthew

[tatewise]

Matthew, I would still like to understand more about how you sync RM8 with FamilySearch and update the WebTag, Date, etc.
You are good to go but your process may be beneficial to others and the Export Gedcom File plugin could benefit too.
It is only with the cooperation of many earlier users that the plugin has developed to its current position.
Can you please help it progress further.

[MFriend]

Sure Mike I'm happy to help. Here are some comparisons:
I did a full export using all the default settings to Rm. On the left are the default settings and on the right are with my modifications. (I also forgot to add that I used an sql statement to copy the citation webtag to the source webtag):



So really the main differences being the modifed export includes the media linked to the citation (as well as the source) and the citation webtag (which is then copied to the source webtag - takes may 20 seconds with the sql query Tom Holden gave me). With having citation webtags and citation media that allows me to upload a tree to Ancestry.com that includes media, sources and links. It also (because of the source webtag) possible to sync records and sources to Familysearch (since Familysearch requires the source webtag to fill in automatically the URL web link for sources).
Here is an example of two sources copied from from RM 9 to Familysearch. The top one is from the default FH to RM export (all default settings). The bottom shows the URL with that is inserted from the Source webtag:



The last pic below shows the edit screen for the top source (after clicking on the little "add" link" ). To 'finalize' the source and finish adding it to the profile, a date has to be added, and the Url needs to be added. If there were a way to also add the date I think the whole process of copying the source to familysearch would be much quicker. I don't see a date field though when copying to Familysearch. Here is the pic:



If you need specifics about certain specific steps let me know. With the setup I think I can repeat it every couple of months and instead of using FTM I'll just do a fresh upload to Ancestry, plus be able to upload new sources to Familysearch.

On a side note, in the last month my brother has had a stroke and my mom was pretty sick and is now on dialysis. It reinforced for me that none of us know how long we will be around so I really want to start putting more of my research not just on Ancestry but also familysearch. I wish I had younger folks in my family line that were interested in genealogy but none at least yet have any interest. So while I may like Family Historian a lot, I want the things I have learned to be available to future generations after I'm gone (which hopefully won't be for a good while yet).

Thank you Mike for your dedication to helping folks here on the forums.

Matthew

P.S. on a side note, I haven't been able to see any changes in the sync process or screens between RM 9 and FS compared to RM 8.

[tatewise]

Thank you for that Matthew. It may take me a while to digest and investigate the details.

What I did find by exporting from RM8 is that it actually prefers to use _WEBTAG instead of _LINK.
The format is:
1 _WEBTAG
2 NAME WebTag
2 URL http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4180592
and allows multiple WebTags to be specified.

So the next Export Gedcom File plugin version may have a 'WEBTAG URL' option that creates both Source and Citation level WebTags for any URL found in the Note or Text From Source fields of those items.
That should apply to RMT such that its default settings can apply plus the 'WEBTAG URL' option to provide what you need.
It may also apply to FST so its Web Page (Link to the record) field gets set from an uploaded GEDCOM.
The Event Date field needs investigation.

[MFriend]

Yes, your idea of the webtags would be awesome

[wildbill]

Watching this interesting discussion, like many I want to get stuff to Ancestry for cousin fishing.

We should say Rootsmagic 9 as of last night except they appear essentially the same apart from Associations.

[tatewise]

Try the attached Export Gedcom File plugin Version 5.2.3 Date 02 Mar 2023 Zip file.
It is a ZIP file because the raw Plugin is bigger than the Forum attachments limit.
So you must right-click the downloaded ZIP file and use Extract All...
Then double-click the extracted FH Plugin (Lua) Export Gedcom File.fh_lua file to auto-install it into FH.

This version should produce RMT _WEBTAG URL links for any URL in Source/Citation Note or Text From Source fields.
They should appear in RM8 as Source WebTags or Citation WebTags.

You may have to use Reset these (RMT+) options on the Extra Options tab to get the Subsidiary Note %d NOTE: setting to use the Weblink to WebTag URL option.

I'll also investigate whether they import into FamilySearch via GEDCOM.

[MFriend]

Thank you Mike for working on that I appreciate it.
My copy of FH 7 (latest version) seems to not be able to run it though. Each time I try to run the export plugin it freezes FH and nothing ever shows on the screen. I have restarted FH a few times, restarted my computer, changed to a smaller FH project and it still freezes. I also tried uninstalling the plugin and installed it fresh from your zip file with the same results.

I thought it might just be my computer acting stupid so I tried some of the other plugins I have installed in FH and they all worked fine (tried about 10 of them including Search and Replace, etc.). It could just be something on this computer. When I get home tonight I'll try again on my main computer. Thank you so much for the effort

Matthew

[tatewise]

Matthew, when you say FH V7 (latest version) do you mean v7.0.19?
I'm still on V7.0.18 for now.

Where does it feeeze?
While Preparing User Dilaogue or when you Reset these (RMT+) options or when you start the export GEDCOM & Media files.

[MFriend]

Hi Mike:
I ended up installing a trial verision of FH 19 on a different computer to do the export and it exported fine.

On the computer I was using, as soon as I would click the run button nothing pops up. After I had posted below I deleted it and downloaded the latest version from the plugin store... and it still wouldn't run. Must just be some dll or something missing from that computer. (the other plugins run ok that I tried so not sure). Not a big deal.

I imported the export into RM 9 and the source webtag and media look fine. That is exactly what I need for syncing sources to Family Search.

Maybe it wasn't meant to, but just the source webtag is filled in,no citation webtags (which is fine for Familysearch. I was hoping to ditch FTM and just use RM 9 to upload to Ancestry also but Ancestry requires a citation webtag and the media to be on a citation to upload. Media on sources won't upload. But I'll just keep FTM installed for uploads every few months of the full tree to ancestry. My plan is to use the ancestry sync plugin for a private tree to get hints). Thank you for your work.

Here is an unlisted link I made that shows what happens witht the freezing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnJJapDJdi4

Matthew

[tatewise]

As you say there must be something missing from that FH installation that this plugin needs.

It will only create a Citation WebTag if the Citation-specific Note or Text From Source has a URL.