Family Historian User Group

Hello again.

I am progressing. I am currently comparing my TMG Tag Types to my FH Fact Types after running a conversion of a portion of my DB.

I am doing this in alpha order so you will see I have not got very far!!

I have a tag in TMG called Apprentice. This Fact Type does not appear in FH. (I am looking at the list accessed in Tools/Fact Types, with set = <all> Filter = <none>). I can see both facts and attributes in the list. Ellis CHITTOCK is the person who has this tag in TMG.

BUT BUT BUT when I look at Ellis CHITTOCK in FH, I can see this fact in his 'events' list under the Fact tab and in the All tab. It also appears in the right place in his INR.

The sentence as it appears in the INR is not how I want it, so I need to access this 'fact' in FH so I can understand the Fact Definition Sentence as it has converted, and to consider where I should be making my changes. I am certain, as I wend my way from Alpha to Omega, I will need to understand how a fact can appear in a person's data and reports, but NOT be present in the list of all facts in the DB.

I am sure I have not got my head fully around the difference between a fact and an attribute. When I look at my Apprentice Tag, it's GEDCOM type is EMPL. If that is what is causing the issue, can I simply change it? If yes, could you advise what to please.

The rest of this post is for info only in case one or more of the 'codes' is causing the issue.

The tag in TMG has just the 1 Principal, Ellis CHITTOCK, no witnesses. The Apprentice's name and the trade they were involved in come from a split memo entered as M1 and M2

My TMG sentence - [P] <was|and [PO] were> the 'Master' of the indentured apprentice [M1]. <The trade was [M2]> <The papers were dated [D]> <[L]>

The memo entry in TMG is - David EGGLETON||Taylor (sic). (note it is the 2 pipes that tell TMG that this is a split memo.

My output in TMG - Ellis Chittock was the 'Master' of the indentured apprentice David EGGLETON. The trade was Taylor (sic) The papers were dated 03 Feb 1785 in St Luke's, Chelsea, Greater London, England.

My output in FH - He experienced Apprenticed on 3rd February 1785 in St Luke's, Chelsea, Chelsea, Greater London, England.

First let us clear up the difference between Facts, Events & Attributes, which are GEDCOM definitions.
Facts encompass both Events and Attributes and both standard and custom.
Events identify the date when a specific occasion such as Birth, Marriage, Census, or Death occurred.
Attributes describe when a characteristic such as Occupation, Education, Religion, or Physical Description applies.
They only differ from Events by having a value to describe the characteristic, such as Doctor or 6ft tall.

When importing into FH it is perfectly feasible for Facts to be associated with Individual or Family records without having a Tools > Fact Types... definition. In that case, default definition settings are applied and may well lead to unusual sentences in the INR. See Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates.

It is possible to reveal such undefined Facts in Tools > Fact Types... by ticking Show Hidden and then the Visible column will say <undefined> and the Status is <disabled>. Use the Help button for more advice.
Does this reveal the Applentice or EMPL fact is <undefined>? Use the Edit button to add a definition.

The Apprentice tag EMPL is probably the cause of the problem, although I am surprised it imports as an Apprentice Fact, and would expect it become a Uncategorised Data Field (UDF) _EMPL. EMPL is not a standard GEDCOM tag, and the nearest standard equivalent would be OCCU for Occupation. The GEDCOM tag for a custom event should be EVEN (or for a custom Attribute is FACT although TMG may not allow that as it is GEDCOM 5.5.1 code).

To investigate UDF use the Handling Uncategorised Data Fields advice.
Does that reveal any _EMPL tags?

If you discover both Apprentice facts and _EMPL UDF then you may find there are two TMG definitions for Apprentice.
I suspect you may have a fact called Apprenticed with a GEDCOM tag EVEN, because your sample sentence uses Apprenticed.
That sentence format is the default style for an undefined fact.

Since Apprentice(d) appears to be an Attribute its value will probably have been imported into the Note field.
See Import of shared persons (19543) that explains how to handle such Facts by changing them from Events to Attributes and retain the _UNCAT Attribute value.

BTW: How are progressing with Give Witness.. then Migrate Census. Importing from TMG (19551)?

The first thing is to check how your Apprentice Tag is setup in TMG. I suspect it may be set with an illegal GEDCOM name such as APPR or EMPL.
Go to your TMG Master Tag Type list, edit the Apprentice tag and look in the Other tab - change the GEDCOM export setting to 1 EVEN, 2 Apprentice (in other words EVENT, type apprentice).
Beware also the FH cannot handle split memos.

Don

Personally, I would in GEDCOM terms have the following:

1 OCCU <Trade of Apprentice>
2 TYPE apprenticeship

Rather than use a FACT tag!

Yes, Shirley said that in TMG Apprentice uses GEDCOM = EMPL but then it should import as a UDF.

Yes, using 1 OCCU 2 TYPE is an option but FH does not support the 2 TYPE tag very well.
See Recording a Civil Partnership that describes using 2 TYPE in the context of 1 MARR in a similar way.

However, Shirley says she is also seeing Apprentice facts on the Facts tab but not in Tools > Fact Types...?

Reply to tatewise

Mike, Re the 'missing' Apprenticed Tag. The fix is in your first para, but as you raised a query, I have replied at length in case it matters to you. From my POV, you can ignore everything after *******. This issue can be closed.

You Said - It is possible to reveal such undefined Facts in Tools > Fact Types... by ticking Show Hidden and then the Visible column will say <undefined> and the Status is <disabled>. Use the Help button for more advice.
Does this reveal the Apprenticed or EMPL fact is <undefined>? Use the Edit button to add a definition.

I Reply - ticking the box revealed the hidden Facts, and indeed Apprenticed is there. The data in the Fact Types list is Apprenticed/Apprenticed/ Event/empty/<none>/<undefined>/TICK. I used the edit button. It is now Apprenticed/Custom/Event/Individual. Even though I make little use of this tag, I went through this exercise so I can 'learn', and I thank you for your help.

The entry in the Fact Types is now Apprenticed/Apprenticed/ Event/Life/Custom/TICK/TICK

***********
You Said - The Apprentice tag EMPL is probably the cause of the problem, although I am surprised it imports as an Apprentice Fact, and would expect it become a Uncategorised Data Field (UDF) _EMPL. EMPL is not a standard GEDCOM tag, and the nearest standard equivalent would be OCCU for Occupation. The GEDCOM tag for a custom event should be EVEN (or for a custom Attribute is FACT although TMG may not allow that as it is GEDCOM 5.5.1 code).

To investigate UDF use the Handling Uncategorised Data Fields advice.
Does that reveal any _EMPL tags?

I reply - File Load/save reveals Other App Gedcom Ext is "Exclude", Exclude fields that not valid is UNTICKED, and Move invalid data into notes TICKED. I accessed my Log file for THIS import. I am disappointed search does not seem to work when I am in the log file. I am a little lost, so I will report 'everything'.

TMG 'Local Sentences' converted to FH 'Sentence Overrides'; has no entry for Apprenticed.
TMG 'Default Sentences' (see tag type definitions) converted to FH 'Sentence Templates'; is presented in alpha order, and Apprenticed is not in the list. Neither is any version of Employment. There are no entries that start with _ in the Fact Column.
There is an Occupation tag. I have this tag in TMG. It has GEDCOM = OCCU and it converted over to FH perfectly.

I conclude that _EMPL tag does not exist in my converted data, but as I don't really know what I am doing I may be wrong.

You said - If you discover both Apprentice facts and _EMPL UDF then you may find there are two TMG definitions for Apprentice.
I suspect you may have a fact called Apprenticed with a GEDCOM tag EVEN, because your sample sentence uses Apprenticed.
That sentence format is the default style for an undefined fact.

I reply - I have ignored this as not applicable