Family Historian User Group

Hello, I am newly registered on the forum, although I have been using FH v6.2 since February this year and have been browsing the forum regularly since that time.

I have been regularly exporting and uploading my FH data to Ancestry as the number of people in the database grows, mainly to take advantage of the matching hints feature. Until a few days ago, this process has been without any issues, even though I had been exporting my file directly from Family Historian using the built-in export menu with the default options.

I was away from home for 6 weeks in September/October and didn't do any work with FH during that time. A few days ago, having returned to building my tree, I attempted to upload a newly exported Gedcom file to Ancestry, which repeatedly failed with the message, "Something went wrong whilst uploading your file. Please try again".

Having searched and read through several posts on the forum I downloaded and installed the "Export Gedcom File" plugin, and exported my file in ANC format, as "<name> ANC UTF8.ged".

I have also verified my data file and checked for uncategorised data fields before creating the export file, both of which reported no issues. But I am still getting the same error when trying to upload it to Ancestry.

Yesterday, I also tried re-uploading an old file that I exported from FH and uploaded successfully in June. That uploaded to Ancestry with no issues, so I'm guessing something in my current data file may be causing the problem, but I really don't know where to start in trying to resolve it. I'm guessing that Ancestry are likely to be fairly unhelpful, so I wondered if FH experts have any ideas please?

Welcome to the FHUG. Sorry you are having a problem.

I am the Export Gedcom File plugin author so hopefully can help.

Are you sure you are uploading the Project ...\Public\Export\<projectname> ANC UTF8.ged file?
The Project ....fh_data\<projectname>.ged file will definitely not upload satisfactorily.

If that is not the cause of the problem then you need to review what has been added since June.
You may have intermediate Backups or Snaphots that may help narrow down which change upsets Ancestry.

BTW: Are you removing living people details before uploading to Ancestry?

Thank Mike.

I am trying to upload the correct <projectname> ANC UTF8.ged file created by your plugin.

Strangely, prior to this problem that I have encountered in the last few days, I had uploaded several <projectname>\Public\<projectname>.ged files created directly from the built-in File Export menu function within FH itself, all without any issues at all.

But now, neither a Gedcom export of my current file created directly from FH or one created by your plugin will upload successfully.

As mentioned, I have tried uploading a Gedcom file created early in September, which I had previously uploaded to Ancestry, and that still uploads without issue.

I have also since my original post tried exporting a copy of the Family Historian Sample Project, both with FH direct and also with your plugin, and I was able to upload both copies successfully, before deleting them from Ancestry.

So it does look as if there is an issue with a more recent addition to my current file. I do have backups, so will have to try and do some investigating as you suggest.

Is there an easy or straightforward way to restore a backup and compare it with the current copy of the same project? I don't want to ask you for chapter & verse if it is explained somewhere, but perhaps you might be able to point me in the right direction, even if it's just "see the help file"!

Finally, yes, I have been removing living people before upload. I also make the tree private and mark it as excluded from the search index, as it's simply an exercise in use of the Ancestry hints for me at present.

Yes, it is a mysterious problem and I would be interested in what is upsetting Ancestry so much.

The way to compare a Backup versus the current Project is to use Windows File Explorer to unpack the Backup ZIP file to extract its GEDCOM file, then in FH use File > Merge/Compare File... and select that GEDCOM file.
The dialogue identifies matching and unmatched records and fields on each of the record type tabs.
Just remember NOT to click the Merge button, but Cancel instead.

Another idea is to use the Export > GEDCOM File... command and << Select various combinations (binary chop) of Individual records, and also use the Exclude options to remove record types to see what uploads to Ancestry and what does not.

Ah, thanks again Mike. That makes sense. I looked briefly at the Merge/Compare function when I was initially getting my head around the software. Still a lot to learn though!

I will have a play around and see what I can find. If I can discover the nature of the problem, I'll let you know.

Thanks again.

It's not related to your export problem, but one issue I found with repeated exports for Ancestry hints was that each export seemed to be treated as a new tree, so all the previously reviewed hints come back. Have you found a way to make Ancestry remember what you have reviewed already? It's manageable with a small database, but once you get into the hundreds or thousands of individuals it gets unworkable. There are workarounds, but they are a bit clunky.

Mark, is the 'clunky' workaround you mention the RootsMagic 'TreeShare for Ancestry' capability?

Yes - it is what I use, but there are a number of issues with it:

1. The database comparison in RootsMagic 7 is known to be flawed, so doesn't reliably identify all records that have been modified in the new version (or rather, it identifies too many changes, and identical records with limited data can show as more different than a small change in a record with lots of data). It's easy enough to see changes in the detail tab, but there are too many records presented for review if you just rely on RM to identify differences.
2. RM occasionally fails to spot that individuals in the "new" and "old" databases are the same person (particularly if a lot has changed), so you get duplicated records that have to be merged prior to Ancestry sync.
3. Copying updated data into RM works well for individuals, but it does not import new relationships. You have to manually rebuild families of new people by linking records.
4. "Living" flags can be erroneously set in RM if no death date is defined, so I set all "living" to false in RM prior to syncing (easy to do, but it's an extra step to remember).
5. The RM link to Ancestry works very well, and copies both individuals and relationships, but there does not seem to be a way of identifying just changed records for review, and there is no way to say "make Ancestry look like RM" in one automatic step.

The best way around these limitations is to run a custom query in FH to identify individuals changed since the last export, and put them in alphabetical order. It's then relatively simple to use this as the list of names to review in both the RM merge and Ancestry sync. There are still false positives, as I might have changed something that I don't export to Ancestry, but at least I catch everyone, and if I don't leave the sync too long, it is relatively simple to rebuild the families.

I exclude all living and private individuals completely from the FH export, as it is trivial to reconstruct details of "private" Ancestry individuals if details of their dead parents are given (marriage date and location, number and gender of children, mother's maiden name, etc...).

Clunky, but still far better than rekeying the data into Ancestry directly.

PS - an alternative solution may be to sync via FTM, but the current version is far too expensive just for this one facility, and I don't know how well its merge and sync functions work. Older versions of FTM synced with Ancestry very well (they should do, as Ancestry owned it at the time!) but that functionality has now been disabled by Ancestry.

I have made a little progress. I used Merge/Compare Files this morning to compare my current project file with the full FH project file from which my last successful Ancestry upload was exported. The only differences were related to additional information I had entered in the project between the two dates, and having looked carefully through them, expanding all relevant fields, I could find nothing unexpected or unusual (that I could see, anyway).

So I tried exporting my current project file to a Gedcom file through the FH built-in export function a number of times, using different settings in the Export Gedcom File dialogue/settings window, each time attempting to upload the file to Ancestry. The upload was successful with all of the listed exclusions ticked, and media excluded. Previous files had been created with only the items in the right column excluded (private notes, one-member family records and unconnected records) plus the exclusion of media.

By trial and error, I have established that the inclusion of source records is what seems to be causing Ancestry to have a problem with the file. I can pretty much include or exclude any of the other options shown in the dialogue window, and Ancestry is happy to accept the file, but if I include source records it generates the "something went wrong whilst uploading your file" error.

As my only reason for periodically uploading to Ancestry is to generate hints against tree members, the file generated with all options excluded is quite good enough for that purpose and, as FH is happy with my file when validated, I'm not overly inclined to spend too much time investigating further. It is odd that the files were previously uploaded successfully with source records included though, and the older exported Gedcom files with those records included can still be uploaded - I have tried renaming them and have uploaded them successfully.

I intend to have a closer look at the more recently added source records in my project file as and when I have the time, but unless I find an obvious issue, I can't say I relish the task of reverting to an earlier file and entering them all again, "just in case".

Mark, re your question I don't believe there is a way to do what you ask within Ancestry. I did look a while back, but it is a function that runs across all trees, and the only selection that seems to be available is the ability to turn off hint notifications on a per tree basis. It hasn't caused me any great problems to date, but as my tree grows I can see it becoming more of an issue and my only thought had been to run a query to identify changes since the last export as you described, but I haven't arrived at the point where I need to do something like that yet.

Thank you for the feedback. It is mysterious that Ancestry rejects something in a Source record.
If you find time to discover what in particular it does not like that would be useful.

I wonder if the problem is not so much Source records but Citations.
When Source records are excluded that will remove all Citations too.
Ancestry is very Citation focussed and follows a 'lumper' Method 2 model, thus an unusual Citation may upset it.

So try selecting all the Source records in the Records Window an run the Where Used Record Links plugin.
That will list all Citations and help identify any unusual cases that have been added recently.
Try sorting on the Field Where Used column to group similar data references together.
They will mostly be FAM.MARR.SOUR or INDI.fact.SOUR that should be OK, so look for others.

Thanks Mike. I've done as you suggested, and found two "orphaned" source records, for want of a better term, i.e. not having any record links. One I had created and simply neglected to cite in the relevant record, and the second was a duplicate source record that I had somehow managed to create twice, but only cited one occurrence.

I have linked the former and deleted the latter, but no change to the inability to upload the Gedcom file to Ancestry.

Using your plugin, I also found an unlinked media record, and several source links that had no entry date attached to the citation entries where they had been used.

I have however spent quite a bit of time this morning tidying up my file with the help of your plugin, which is very useful, thank you. Unfortunately, there is no change on the upload issue though.

I have just hit on the idea of creating Gedcom files containing small groups of users, and attempting to upload them to Ancestry in the hope that it might narrow down where Ancestry is having a problem with the file. So far, I've only tried one attempt, creating a file containing the first ten individuals by record IDs, but I'm happy to say that it uploaded without any issues, so I think that might be a way forward for now. With a bit of trial and error (and time) I'm hoping I might be able to narrow it down to a single record.

I've had enough for today though. Off for a walk to clear my head!

If you go down this trial and error route, a good technique is to first load half your records, then the other half. If one group works and the other doesn’t, you know which half has the problem record. Divide this half into two and repeat. Each iteration reduces the possibilities by 50%, and is much quicker than trying multiple small groups.

Yes, that 'binary chop' technique can work well, but will rely on the 'problem' being distributed proportionately among Individual records. We know the 'problem' is associated with Source records, so that distribution may not be the case.

Fair point, but knowing whether the problem occurs with just one individual or multiple individuals would be a step forward. If multiple individuals, what do they have in common?

Yes, that's the route I intend to take. The initial upload was just to see if splitting off a small portion of the file would be successful. If it doesn't narrow down to a single individual record, hopefully I can find what the affected records have in common.

While it's worth knowing for future reference what is causing the upload problem, I make no apologies for repeating a question I have asked before on these forums. Why would you want to upload sources to Ancestry anyway? You have ticked the box that says you "grant Ancestry a sublicensable, worldwide, royalty-free license to host, store, copy, publish, distribute, provide access to, create derivative works of, and otherwise use such User Provided Content to the extent and in the form or context we deem appropriate on or through any media or medium and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed or discovered. This includes the right for Ancestry to copy, display, and index your User Provided Content. Ancestry will own the indexes it creates. We will also have the right to continue to use your User Provided Content, even if you stop using the Services, but only as necessary for us to provide and improve the Services."

Making the tree private and not visible in indexes doesn't change this - all you do is stop other members seeing the tree, but you have still donated it to Ancestry for them to use for whatever purpose they deem appropriate. If you are uploading media, do you have permission from all the copyright owners of your images?

It sounds like your reason for uploading a tree is the same as mine - exploiting hints. That works just as well on a bare tree with no sources and media, which you acknowledged yourself in an early post, so why not just stick with that?

Mark,

Whilst I largely agree with your comments, I have only just realised that the hints function works just as well on a bare tree, as a result of the various permutations that I've been using in creating a number of Gedcom files whilst trying to overcome the problem I've encountered.

I've never uploaded media though; but apart from disabling that, I had always left everything else in the FH Export Gedcom File options window to the default settings presented on opening. As I've never uploaded the media, I don't see any great problem in including sources unless you can tell me why I shouldn't? Many of them are just referencing information that was already on Ancestry, FMP or other genealogy websites anyway, and for those that aren't I can't see a problem with sharing the location and reference. If it finds its way into the public domain, anyone wishing to obtain the full source information or record copy would still have to go to the relevant repository, or in the case of sources referenced as "letter in possession of my mother" for example, I'm not sure how much good having that information would do them?

Anyway, back to the problem at hand. The issue I have now determined is with a single individual record for one of my Great Aunts. If I create a Gedcom file from my entire project minus that specific individual, it uploads as expected. Any files created and containing the individual, whether as just the one individual record or in permutation with any other individuals or the whole file, fail to upload.

I can't see any obvious problems with the specific individual record, media, links etc. Comparing it with the version in the last successful upload, the only difference is that a single residence fact has been changed from the older version (dates amended) and two more residence facts added. The facts are actually all recorded in the husband's record, with the husband as the principal resident, and his wife entered as a witness. However, I have used the same method for residence facts relating to other individuals within the file and they aren't causing any problems with those records. Nor are there any issues with the husband's record, which uploads perfectly well as a single Gedcom file, or in conjunction with any or all records other than his wife's.

I think my next step has to be to make a copy of my current file, and remove my Aunt as a witness to the "new" facts one at a time and/or removing the facts entirely, whilst testing the upload at each stage. Now I know that I don't need to upload source information to Ancestry, I'm not particularly bothered about restoring the ability to do so per se, but I would like to try and identify or at least fix the problem, as it is obvious that something is wrong somewhere, and I don't want to leave a possibly latent defect in my file that might come back to bite me at some future date.

Let me remind you that it is not possible to upload to Ancestry any Media images linked to GEDCOM records, nor most other online trees such as FindMypast & ZoomPast. That is why they default to be removed entirely via the plugin.

Earlier it seemed that excluding all Source records (and thus Citations) avoided the problem.
Now it seems an Individual record is causing the problem.
So is it some form of intersection of those two criteria? Is it a Source Citation linked to that Individual?

Yes, if I exclude source records in creating a Gedcom file consisting only of the single problematic individual, it uploads fine, so the issue has to be something to do with sources/citations attached to her record and in particular, I think, those connected to the residence facts I mentioned above, as they are the only changes since the successful upload with sources included.

If you cannot determine what particular attribute is upsetting Ancestry, then if you are happy to attach that tiny GEDCOM of your great-aunt including Sources, I could take a look too.

It seems unlikely to be the Residence Witness links because they don't exist in her Individual record.
Those links only exist in her husband's record. So the Source Citations for them won't exist for your great-aunt.

Thanks Mike, that's very kind of you.

I've attached the file. Hopefully you can find something that I'm missing.

Edit: Attachment now removed.

For anyone subsequently reading the thread, the offending source record contained the following note, which was a direct cut & paste from the original source (a website):

1918 - 1920/Thomas Curme/../../../Electoral Register
1918 - 1920/Mary Curme/../../../Electoral Register
1921/Percy James Strong/../../../Post Office Directory
1923/Percy James Strong/../../../Post Office Directory
1934/Mrs Maud Florence Strong/../../../Kellys Directory

After a process of eliminating elements of the GEDCOM bit by bit, I have found the culprit.

In Source The Royal Duke P.H. Stepney, London [S378] the NOTE contains /../../ that Ancestry rejects!
It is OK with /../ or with |..|..| but those forward slashes & dots are a problem, and /././ is also rejected!

If you try and Edit Citation or Edit Source and edit any field in Ancestry to contain /../../../ then it gets upset in various ways...
It may just show a blank tab or say:
www.ancestry.co.uk - Access Denied
Error code 15
This request was blocked by the security rules
with a strange message.
If you Go Back one page and reverse the edit then all is OK.

Mike, you are a star!

Thank you so much. Even if I had narrowed the problem down to that source, I would never have found the reason.

The note was a direct cut & paste from a relevant section of the original source. For my purposes, the "/../" bits are totally irrelevant, so I have edited the note to replace each occurrence with a comma.

I've also made a note of your findings for future reference, just in case.

Thank you