* Migrating from TMG9 to FH6

[Hearthstone]

When converting a project from TMG9 to FH6:
1. Are Tags converted to Facts?
2. Are Bookmarks converted to Named Lists?
3. Are Flags converted to Flags?
4. How are Sort Dates handled?

[tatewise]

Welcome to the FHUG.

Checkout how_to:import_from_tmg|> Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG) for details.

In summary:

1. Yes.
2. I don't think so.
3. I don't think so.
4. They are discarded.

BTW: As a newcomer checkout how_to:key_features_for_newcomers|> Key Features for Newcomers.

[DonF]

I'd change Mike's answer to :

1. Yes, but don't imagine everything to do with a tag gets carried across
2. No
3. Sort of - but FH flags are different from TMG flags and some settings don't come across
4. There is no such concept in FH.

[NigelBrown]

I have a slightly different experience to Don's. Firstly, I am not aware of any loss of Tag/Fact information in the direct import of 9500 individuals, but in 18 months of testing before committing to FH I modified several tags in TMG to better match the corresponding FH Facts, whilst the FH "Change any Fact Tag" plugin has been very helpful in achieving better alignment after import. Secondly, yes TMG's implementation of Flags is far superior (with Yes/No/? capabilities, etc, but all my Yeses have imported as Yes in FH, and I am living with that (but hoping for FH to change). The lack of Date sorting is a distinct drawback, but its absence has not caused me unbearable problem. Having tried out several other alternatives to TMG I have no regrets about moving to FH.

[jimlad68]

Hearthstone
Sort Dates. Yes a regular query on the forum and something I missed coming from TMG. I suspect the main 'original' reason is that it is not GEDCOM compatible, but I am sure there could be a way around that like some other aspects of FH (places/geocoding, named lists etc), but of course FH has it's own method via Facts 'belonging' to a period of life and sorting into broad categories.

If you want workarounds (although we live in hope that now there are so many TMG exiles FH will include them in a future release), do a search on 'sort dates'

These might be starting points:
### LINKS EDITed ###
http://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... 284#p58284
Sorting none dated facts and keeping them sorted (12944) - although cumbersome this is my current method, note the comment re Unicode UTF-16, as you may wish to save your gedcom in the more universal Unicode UTF-8. (See FH preferences).

[Hearthstone]

Thanks to all who answered my query so quickly. Following up: If FH6 doesn't convert Bookmarks to Named Lists, what does it do with them?

[jimlad68]

Hearthstone

Apologies, I got my links wrong on the previous posting, now corrected. Correct links also here:
These might be starting points:
http://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... 284#p58284
Sorting none dated facts and keeping them sorted (12944) - although cumbersome this is my current method, note the comment re Unicode UTF-16, as you may wish to save your gedcom in the more universal Unicode UTF-8. (See FH preferences).

[DonF]

Thanks to all who answered my query so quickly. Following up: If FH6 doesn't convert Bookmarks to Named Lists, what does it do with them?

Well, nothing.

To expand again on my brief comments:
1. Yes, Tags become Facts, but TMG sentences (which are part of a TMG Tag) are ignored. They would need conversion to FH format, of course, but no attempt is made to do that. Fact statements are also inconsistently handled in the case of Witnesses
2. As noted TMG Bookmarks go nowhere
3. Flags with a value of “?” or “N” in TMG are not imported (although Living=? settings come across as N). An FH Flag can only be On or Off, so to speak, rather than TMG's multiple values
4. There is no concept of SortDate in FH, nor likely to be one I suspect.

You will find a number of other areas where FH does not convert TMG data very well (like Sureties, if you use them).

[Jane]

My understanding is that multi-value flags are imported as separate flags for each value, when not a Y/N flag

I imagine the amount of man days involved in trying to convert every conceivable TMG sentence structure to FH would be complex as both systems have a variety of ways of producing output, of course it's probable if you wanted to you could write a plugin to import them and convert them yourselves, using a Lua plugin to read the TMG database and create sentence templates in a Fact Set (the fact set files are quite simple in structure.

I suspect you could do something with a plugin to import bookmarks if they are simply at the record level, by again reading the TMG project data directly and creating a result set to be saved as a named list.

[tatewise]

The way to gain a better insight into the import from TMG features, is to install the FH 30-day free trial, and experiment. The only restriction is that the FH Trial does NOT support Plugins.

Sentence Templates are probably more easily composed by hand than trying to automate migration with a Plugin.

I suspect most Bookmarks are transient, and for permanent Bookmarks it is again probably easier to set up Named Lists by hand than to automate with a Plugin.

In my opinion, Plugins are better suited to tasks that are likely to be regularly repeated, or where a tediously large number of similar actions are required, especially when the actions are very straightforward.

[nailsw0rth]

As a newcomer to this conversation, may I approach Tags to Facts in a slightly different way. As I understand FH6 so far, Tags without GEDCOM values are converted undefined, but with the verb "experienced" in the sentence . As with all Facts these facts are held in a Fact Type file outside the Projects. I have 15 TMG projects to transfer and have started with small ones! It appears that after defining an "undefined" Tag, now Fact, that definition holds on the FH Fact file when the next project brings in the same "undefined" fact and I do not have to define again. Right? The verb "experienced" in the Fact that I have changed appears to change back to "experienced "? This makes me wonder what on earth will happen later on as I bring in more projects. Particularly as TMG is still in use and various projects are being updated, by my wife while I explore FH. I am considering deleting my trial imports and reimporting the up to date version of the TMG project.

Is anyone with experience of this sort of importing able to help please? Are there any other examples of FH files common to all projects?

[tatewise]

Welcome to the FHUG.
You have sort of got the general idea but not quite.

As a newcomer I strongly advise you study how_to:key_features_for_newcomers|> Key Features for Newcomers and for this topic see the book "Getting the Most From Family Historian" and Chapter 6 Events, Attributes & Notes in the Property Box that covers defining Facts.

Some of the terminology is confusing to start with so I will try and explain.
Tags are used in GEDCOM to identify every piece of data: Fact names, Date fields, Place fields, etc...
So TMG9 is talking about just Fact name Tags and FH calls them Fact Types.
The Standard Fact Tags/Types are well defined, but Custom Fact Tags/Types are less so.
What you refer to as undefined Facts do exist as Custom GEDCOM Tags, which is how they transfer from TMG9 to FH, but what is missing is the FH Fact Type Definition that provides the Narrative Sentence Template and other parameters that allow FH to interpret the GEDCOM Fact Tag to your liking.

Without that Definition FH uses a default Sentence Template with the verb experienced.
I suspect you have edited the Sentence box at the bottom of the Facts tab for the undefined Fact.
That will be remembered for just that specific Fact within that specific Project.
It is very local to that Fact, just like its Date or Note field.
If you can find another instance of that Fact for another person it will still say experienced.
To provide a global definition that affects all Facts in all Projects, use Tools > Fact Types.

See how_to:narrative_report_fact_sentence_templates|> Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates for further details.

You ask about files common to all Projects. See how_to:understanding_scope_of_features|> Understanding the Scope of Features that explains what affects what and where it is stored.

[DonF]

You said you had 15 TMG Projects? do you mean Projects or DataSets?
For those who don't know TMG, there is a need to be clear on terminology here - TMG allows the use of Projects, which may contain DataSets (which we commonly tend to call projects, without thinking about our use of the term). That is, within TMG, my Project A may have several different and distinct DataSets (A1, A2, etc) where (say) my family is in A1 and my wife's in A2; and I may have Project B, which contains just one set of data, which is research I'm doing for my friend X; and Project C, research for my friend Z, and so on.
This capability is present in TMG to allow professionals to separate data for different clients; thus settings in each of the PROJECT files can be very different (as can the place lists, source lists, etc).

So beware - if your 15 TMG projects are truly 15 different PROJECT setups, you may have real problems trying to convert to a single FH setup (which is all you can have in FH); if they're all DataSets in the one Project, then your problems are in the 'not so much' category.

[E Wilcock]

Although TMG does allow for separate data sets within one project, I wonder how widely they were used. I myself had difficulty with them and I too keep multiple separate TMG Projects.

I used data sets within a Project for a different purpose - to lists possible candidates. Possible matches - For instance of all people surname Brown listed on a census for a particular village. Or on the First World War medal cards. I miss that facility in FH.

Suggestions from FH users would be welcome. Does one use a named list?

In TMG one had (eventually after some study ) a clear idea of which settings applied to just one Project and which to all Projects that one created.
I agree that it is hard to find the same information in FH.

Partly because the experts here disapprove of one running multiple Projects in FH. But also partly because (I conclude) the situation is very simple.

Any data specific to a particular FH Project can be found within the Project folder in Documents/Family Historian Data (or wherever you keep your projects. But there is almost nothing there. Reports will be here. And custom named lists are Project specific.

But FH Settings are kept in the Folder for Program data, in the folder called Calico Pie. (Dont be fooled, it isnt called Family Historian). Since this is classified as Program data one can assume it applies to all projects and it does. The plug ins, custom Fact sentences and other Custom settings in FH are all there and will appear in every Project. Including a new one.

This includes any customisation one has made to the Add Fact list - the short selection of Facts that pops up to allow rapid entry. So if you are working on a Project that is out of the norm for Family Historians and handles one particular topic - an artillery Brigade, or migration of refugees, you may need to re-set a few choices.

So when you edit the universal sentence for an unclassified Fact using codes or inserting words - (I changed Experienced) it is applied to all Projects. My sentence is {individual} was {note} {date} {place} {age}.

However, as already explained, if you alter a sentence when you are working on data entry for a particular person, the sentence you write in will be unique to that instance, just as it was in TMG.

In your situation where you are playing around learning FH and re-importing updated TMG Projects the universality of FH customisations is a great advantage. You can see this in action and reassure yourself by creating a new (almost) empty Project in FH with just one (obligatory) person entered, John Doe. You can then see that your plug ins and any custom sentences will all be there. And any fact sets created by your previous import.

One of the initial problems in moving from TM to FH is that one searches and searches for information because it was vital in TMG. But it isnt vital in FH - so it is hard to get answers.

In other instances it can be hard to find info on things one knew how to do in TMG, for instance write sentences using template codes. The brackets used are different in FH.
There is a page on this on line - tho not in the handbook.

http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id ... &s[]=codes

But I dont find it easy to follow and that could be because the average FH user is not expected to use these things - FH experts kindly step in and do the work for you. In TMG I found empty fields were a problem, but may be they are not a problem in FH because empty fields are simply omitted in any output.

Many suggestions for sentences and coded output from FH experts have been posted on this Forum, and I have used them and taken them as models for anything that I myself might want to do. But without any real understanding of the FH codes.

[tatewise]

Firstly, migrating from one product to another will often pose a challenge, whether that is from TMG to FH, or one photo editor to another, or from Windows to Mac.

Named Lists are certainly useful for identifying related sets of records. They don't have to be Individual records as any combination of records (including Source, Media, etc.) can be in one Named List, which is a much undervalued feature.

Yes, FH is coy about where settings are kept, which is why I wrote how_to:understanding_scope_of_features|> Understanding the Scope of Features. It may need updating for new FH V6 features such as Internet Data Matches and Snapshots. The settings are in more places than I suspect you realise. That is also why I wrote the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings Plugin, which although not ideal is one way of having different settings for different Projects. Just backup when finished on one Project and restore when starting on another Project. Just keep the different backups within the Public folder of each Project so they migrate intact.

See Wish List Ref 460 Localise Settings to Projects and Vote.

See how_to:narrative_report_fact_sentence_templates|> Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates that identifies the relevant FH Help pages.

Such sentence template are different in every product I have reviewed (why would you expect them to be the same) but I don't believe they are any more complex in FH.

[nailsw0rth]

To Mike Tate
Thank you for your comment on checking chapter 6 of the book. I have a copy. Regarding "experienced" , Yes I did use Tools>Fact Types and changed the verb to the one I wanted. This worked fine for all occurances of the Fact. However I am not sure it stuck because when I brought in another project with the same Fact that needed redefining, I think my new definition was overwritten with experienced. I must check again.
To Don F
I do mean Projects. I never got on with Data Sets. My Projects existed before TMG introduced the idea of Data Sets within Projects. I found the Data Set numbering system confused me. I want 15 FH projects, but realise I have to be careful about definitions.
To E Wilcock
Glad to know I was not the only one not liking Data Sets. You are quite right that it is a good idea to have all Facts defined in one file. (for me anyway) However it seems that if you access the Facts table in project A you get standard facts plus Custom Facts for that Project. Project B seems to have the Custom Facts it uses. Where there is common Custom Fact, I think the definition is the same. BUT as my comment to Mike shows there is a point I must check. Also can I see the whole table, Custom and Standard? Could it be that only Standard Facts definitions are held outside the Project? What happens to my Custom Definitions when I delete my trial version of Project A and import from TMG the updated version of Project A?

Thanks again for comments.

[tatewise]

All the Standard Fact and Custom Fact definitions edited via Tools > Fact Types will survive deleting and importing Projects.
They will even survive un-instaling and re-installing FH.
They are all held in the C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian\Fact Types folder.

Are you sure that the Custom Facts in one Project have exactly the same Tag format as in another Project?
If not, then the definitions will need new entries for each one.
However, there is a Plugin that can be used to convert them to all use the same Tag format.

[nailsw0rth]

Many thanks. This is getting interesting. I will explore the Calico Pie folder and Chapter 6 of Simon Orde's book..

[tatewise]

You can get a better insight of what is going on with imported custom Fact Types via the Tools > Fact Types dialogue.

In how_to:narrative_report_fact_sentence_templates|> Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates you will see that dialogue has Show and Hide buttons and Show Hidden and Show Set Rankings tick options lower right.

Tick Show Hidden and several extra columns are shown, including Visible and Status.
Undefined facts have Fact Set = <none> and Visible = <undefined>
Thus you can see your defined Fact Tags and undefined Fact Tags together.

I suspect that when you import a new Project, the earlier Fact definitions exist, and the imported custom Facts are undefined, and they have similar Labels and Names.

[nailsw0rth]

I think I am now happy that I understand Custom Facts. The intention in TMG was to try and standardise the use and definition of Tags.

Now I have the issue of the Memo Field in each TMG tag entry. As far as I can see it does not come across as a Note to the relevant Fact, or at all. I can transfer each one with Copy and Paste, but as about two thirds of the 21,000 Tags in the TMG Projects have Memo entries I am hoping that there might be a better way. Has some kindly Genius devised a Plug in, if that is the right term?

[tatewise]

I was under the impression that TMG Memos did now import OK.

See how_to:about:version_6.x.y|> Family Historian Version 6.2.2 under New in 6.0.2 (Feb 2015) says: "Memos for events are now imported", and mentions an import dialogue with Help and options, etc.

See Import TMG V7 to FH V6 project failure (13185) and last post on Fri May 20, 2016 3:49 am says: "And my memos imported along with all the data."

Have you checked the All tab of the Property Box and expanded every [+] to eyeball every field?
Tip: Double-click on the persons Name at top and everything is fully opened/closed.
Also try using Edit > Find and Search for: some unique Memo text.

I assume you are performing a direct import, and not going via Gedcom.
Can you identify exactly which Memo fields are missing, preferably with a TMG screenshot, so other TMG migrants can offer advice about what worked for them.

Unfortunately, a Plugin cannot help unless the Memo data either exists within FH or can be exported from TMG in a text file with enough details to relate each Memo to a particular person's event tag..

If you can be precise about what Memos are missing, I am sure Calico Pie would like to know about it and hopefully fix any bug that might exist.

[jbtapscott]

Just to confirm your impression Mike - I imported Memos from TMG to FH with no loss of data (Direct Import, and while testing the processes and before my final cutover, also with the Gedcom import). As I recall, I did nothing "special" to make the data import okay.

[E Wilcock]

I have not done a serious or final import of my many TMG projects to FH.
But I do have one in FH (direct import) which I use for purposes of comparison with the same Project in Roots Magic.

As far as I can see all the notes for Tags come into the Note field beneath the FH Event.

The difficulty is that I dont really understand the definition of Note in FH, and I myself used the term Note in several different ways.

In TMG I created a TAG Note and in both programmes I created and used an Event/Tag called Research Notes.
But each Tag or Fact also has its own Note field. In TMG this was called a Memo.
The text in the Memo field is all important and has come across to FH.

However in response to this post, I had a brief look and in one case I see that the Memo text on screen in FH includes in square brackets formatting codes for both citations and carriage returns.
It reminds one that the back history of family history databases may affect later transfers? This was my earliest Project, so these codes date back to before my use of TMG. I moved from Generations (now only available as Reunion for Mac) and before that I used Pedigree for DOS.

The FH Individual summary report faithfully reproduces these formatting codes. It could well be that if I looked through the whole Project I might find more. But one thing is for sure, they did not originate in the FH import. I think I retained them in a Note Tag memo to have the citation number references for a sequence of sources whose numbers had been lost in an earlier move to new software but which I hoped to retrieve by examining the GEDCOM.

I did use many formatting codes in memos in another Project when making a narrative format CD of a Website. So I just opened this TMG Project (directly) in FH and it looks perfect. My paragraph formatting within long notes is recognised. Formatting caodes had themselves become obsolete as software improved version by version.

Now in FH there is a little yellow spiral bound notebook icon by each Fact. I dont yet know what this is for, but if I highlight an event and see that it's Memo/Note is safely there, and then click on the yellow pad, the notes and sources are both greyed out. So it looks as if they dont exist.

I wonder if this is what is happening here? That your memos have imported but you have accidentally clicked something and have a view that does not show them?

Would just add that to my amazement during this trial import FH located and restored links to the many images that were used on the CD - that was created nine years ago on a different computer.

[tatewise]

E Wilcock says: "Now in FH there is a little yellow spiral bound notebook icon by each Fact."
To explain, on the Facts tab, the More column has three icons:

• The blue Witnesses icon signifies the Fact has Witnesses, accessed via the cog Menu > Witnesses option below.
  If the icon in the Date column is a red/blue bullet, then this is a Principal Fact.
  If the icon in the Date column is a blue arrow, then this is a Witness Fact.
• The Media icon (as shown on Media tab above and Show Media button below) signifies the Fact has Media attached.
  Click the Show Media button to see whether attached directly to Fact or via a Citation or Source.
• The yellow Notes icon (as shown on the Notes tab above) signifies the Fact has a Note shown in pane below.
  Open the Notes tab to view a summary of all Notes.

Notes can be confusing, because they are attached to almost every data structure, as defined by GEDCOM.
Above we were looking at Fact local Notes on the Facts tab.
If the yellow Sources For: pane is open alongside, then each Source Citation has a local Note pane.
On the Main tab there is a Note attached to the whole Individual record.
In the Records Window open each tab to view each type of record and almost all have a Note pane.
On the All tab of each Property Box it possible to add Notes elsewhere too!

[nailsw0rth]

Many thanks again for your thoughts and comments. Bearing in mind what has been said, I went back and checked the 6 projects that I have transferred using the direct transfer recommended. 5 projects have indeed done exactly what you all predicted and there is no problem. 1 project has not transferred notes and that was the one I chose, for no reason except it was the last one on the list, and which caused my post.

On looking to see if there was anything about the 1 project that was different from the other 5, I noticed that for some reason, yet to be discovered, the 1 project has US Place Style in TMG and the others have the expected UK place style. On reflection it is years since I looked at the 1 project as it was the first one and must be 15 years old if a day. I will now go back and see if I can do any form of bulk TMG change from US to UK style. Then try again.