* Census Tags/ Events TMG to FH

[E Wilcock]

This is not a problem with the FH import of TMG which is fine.
It would be helpful if someone who used the UK version of the TMG census tags and created witness roles for them could explain step by step how they edited those Tags either before or after import to FH.

I am having problems which other people do not seem to have.

There is clearly something very odd either about my TMG UK census Tags or about the way I used them. I not only used witness roles but in any census for a married couple, I had two principals.

I have run into problems trying to edit the GEDCOM type of those UK census Tags in TMG.
In one case I managed to re-label the standard Census Tag and thus lose it for a day or two.

I did in a trial use the TMG Utilty to change the Tag type before export, but am nervous of doing this in case I lose some roles.

I have done the editing of Census Fact types fine in FH after import - I have multiple projects. In TMG, each project (I think) had its own set of Tags/Events. Is this the same in FH. Or does editing or creating a Fact in FH affect every project?

And bringing my Census events into FH adds further characteristics. Just to give an example. None of my FH family (shared man and wife) census tags show up if I open a FH gedcom export in Heredis, (i-pad) a programme which I believe is known for not handling shared Events.

[tatewise]

I cannot speak for TMG, but most FH 'customisations' such as Custom Facts, Diagrams, Reports, Queries, Plugins, etc, affect all Projects in every PC account. See how_to:understanding_scope_of_features|> Understanding the Scope of Features for details.

It is known that various genealogy programs do not fully implement even the Standard Gedcom specification, and Census (family) (CENS tag in Family record) is a common omission.

It is advisable to change each Census (family) event into two Individual Census events for the spouses, not only because they export more reliably, but also many FH Census analysis utilities ignore Census (family) events.

[brianlummis]

Due to the way that TMG recorded census data and witnesses, I think that it is difficult to find a quick and easy solution. There are other threads on the Forum which may throw some light on the subject as well as in the Knowledge Base but after a lot of thought I decided re-enter all my census entries using Ancestral Sources (using Method 1) and as I do so delete the TMG imported census data for that census. I am guessing that this will take me the best part of 12 months to complete but will eventually be worth the effort.
My decision was made easier as all my census records are currently on paper and I am taking the opportunity of importing them into the project as media to enable me to reduce my paper mountain.

[DonF]

There seem to be 2 points under discussion so far - the first one is easy to deal with - as Mike pointed out, any customisation of FH applies to all projects under its control. In TMG, one can have multiple Projects, under which one can have multiple DataSets (each of which is more akin to an FH project) and customisations only apply at the Project level - i.e. all DataSets in a Project inherit the customisations (mostly) but one can have many different customisations (varying by Project) applying to non-global preferences, Name Styles, Place Styles, Tags, Sentences, etc. Which is why TMG is used by many professionals, to enable separation of work by client.

On the second issue of Census data entry, I have coincidentally been changing the way I record census data in TMG and the impact that has on an FH import is interesting. To clarify, I used to record the Head of Family as the Principal of the census tag, and everybody else as a witness in whatever role they were, and this included the wife. This transferred across to FH OK-ish, and the 'out of the box' sentences were as follows (this for a man, with his wife as a witness):
"He appeared in the census on 7 April 1861 in Middleton Farm, Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland."
"She was a wife at Census of Alexander FERGUSSON on 7 April 1861 in Middleton Farm, Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland."
Note that FH uses the EXACT TMG role name in this (unmodified) sentence - which is why its a bit strange.

Now that I've completed my re-doing of my TMG census entries, I have made the wife (where she existed) the 2nd Principal to the TMG census event (this allowed for simpler TMG sentence construction). So now, when that gets imported into FH, it sees a double-principal census tag and makes this a 'Census (family)' event. This 'family' concept is irrelevant to TMG and is an unnecessary GEDCOM concept, but I won't restart the GEDCOM is stupid argument again..
Anyway, the FH (out of the box) sentence now says, for either of the 2 principals:
"They appeared in the census on 7 April 1861 in Middleton Farm, Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland."
Who 'they' are, is of course a mystery... and I think maybe is part of the problem Evelyn is having when she tries to export this to other tools.

I also think Brian may be on the right track when he has come to the conclusion that the only way to get a proper export is have everybody in his files as effectively a Principal to their own exclusive census event. This approach is anathema to TMG users, as it destroys the ability to link together everybody associated with an event in meaningful narrative sentences. My TMG-created sentence output for the 2 folks I've described above goes like this (husband first and then wife's version):
"He was listed in the 1861 census as Head of Family at Middleton Farm in Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire with his wife Elizabeth; he was a farmer of 167 acres, employing two men and a boy. Their children Janet, John and James were listed as living with them, as were Alexander's mother Christina McGREGOR and sister Elizabeth FERGUSSON."
"She was listed in the 1861 census at Middleton Farm in Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire with her husband Alexander; he was a farmer of 167 acres, employing two men and a boy. Their children Janet, John and James were listed as living with them, as were Alexander's mother Christina McGREGOR and sister Elizabeth FERGUSSON."

I don't know FH well enough to even start reproducing that sort of narrative in FH, but I suspect it would be impossible if everybody there had their own census Fact. And is also why I'm staying with TMG, probably for at least the next 10 years (which is the supported life for Windows 10, on which TMG is known to still work).

[E Wilcock]

See Knowledge Base > Understanding the Scope of Features for details.

I am very grateful for this link. Just what I needed.

Could FH now take the further step of making it more readilly available from the Knowledge base page?

For I had failed to find this information when I previously looked and now even though I know it is there, I can see no mention of it on the Knowledge Base Home page. If one clicks on the FH link, a whole list comes up but one hasnt a clue where to look.

Don - Thank you for that very considered reply. I am very thankful that I can now bring my TMG Projects into Family historian, and similarly, using Gedstar, carry that data from FH on my Android phone.

I am beginning to get an idea of the adjustments I myself should make to enjoy all the benefits of FH by first learning to use the software to its full potential and then using the FH software with data entry choices other than those which I used in TMG.

I cannot be certain but it looks to me from old GEDCOM files on my computer as though my two principal entry of Censuses for man and wife started in Generations for Windows, the discontinued Windows version of Reunion for Mac. There were no witnesses in those days so the children each had their own Census entries.
In the days when I typed in all the household details for every family, there was no difficulty in cross referencing Man and wife. For many census entries I have the whole household listed in the source record. It is only since censuses went on line that I began to take the easy way out.

[tatewise]

Regarding the Knowledge Base...
It is not clear if you understand the difference between FH and FHUG.
See the top two entries of the glossary:index|> Glossary of Terms > Popular Topics.

The Knowledge Base is created by FHUG members voluntarily, and some time is needed to investigate its nooks and crannies, but the more established members are happy to point you in the right direction. You are also welcome to update it as necessary.

Did you read the Knowledge Base Home page?
There are lots of guides, and you were on the right track selecting the Family Historian section.
Scroll down and on the left to find its Table of Contents.
I think it reasonable to assume the Introduction, Beginners Guide, Installation Guide, and Importing to Family Historian are unlikely to hold Understanding the Scope of Features.
So a quick scan of the Intermediate Guide and the Advanced Guide should and would have found it.

Alternatively, as the Knowledge Base Home page suggests, try entering a few keywords in the Search box at the top. Entering any of the keywords Understand or Scope or Features lists the topic you wanted.