Family Historian User Group

I have for years used Gedstar Pro to carry my TMG family trees originally in Palm PDAs and later on my Android Smart Phone. I now have version 4.5.3.

This program resides on one's Windows computer and converts TMG or Legacy Projects to a file that can be viewed on an Android phone app. It will also convert GEDCOM files.

It is important to me to be able to continue carrying my data on my phone. Since FH is new to me, and there are many choices involved my first attempts failed. I would like to post what I did today in case experts in FH may have refinements or suggestions.

To reduce processing time on a large file, today I selected only 4 people for export in my GEDCOM, a woman and three of her sons.

The first step is to export a GEDCOM from FH. I installed the GEDCOM Export plug in. I believe that Gedstar prefers a UTF-8 Gedcom, tho I am unable to find the Gedstar Pro Help details.

The Plug in offers many options and I don't really understand them. I chose the first UTF-8 on the FH options list. Was this the best choice? The other option is without BOM.

The UFT-8 export was converted and opens on my phone complete with Custom tags imported from TMG.

I chose one individual as he is listed in the witness role son in his parents 1861 census. Now that FH 6 imports all our witness roles etc, we have a problem that the trees will not export as a pure GEDCOM. My witnessed events don't seem to have been exported.

Was there a GEDCOM option I could have selected to export the witness events?

Because FH works from a modified Gedcom file I also asked Gedstar to convert a small FH tree direct from the FH file. It opens on my phone but I haven't carried this experiment further with more complex roles and witnesses.
Do other people find it a good idea to copy the FH file direct, rather than exporting a GEDCOM?

Has anyone succeeded in taking witness events from FH to Gedstar Pro? Or is this totally impossible?

You clearly appreciate that FH uses a GEDCOM file as its database.
It is a 'Standard' GEDCOM file, but has Non-standard Tags for several features, including Witnesses.
Most genealogy programs ignore or reject each others Non-standard Tags.
Non-standard Tags are different from Custom Events allowed in Standard GEDCOM.
Also the character encoding is Unicode UTF-16 that many programs do not recognise.

So your last experiment using the FH V6 GEDCOM file may work up to a point, but Non-standard Tags such as Witnesses will probably not be imported by GEDSTAR Pro.

Using the Export Gedcom File Plugin is more likely to achieve success (I am its author).
There is no GEDCOM export mode for GEDSTAR Pro so use (Std) Standard GEDCOM 5.5.
GEDSTAR Pro clearly recognises UTF-8 & UTF-16 so either option with BOM will work OK.
For Multimedia conversion I suggest you Remove all the Multimedia entirely unless you want to try to migrate the Media files as well.

Check the Plugin Help & Advice where there is much advice, and in the Output Formats section it explains how Non-standard Tags are exported in Standard GEDCOM 5.5 format. For example Fact Witnesses (_SHAR, _SHAN, ROLE) are converted to a Fact local Note with a Witness Role: label.

Mike Thank you.

I don't have media in FH yet and dont transfer media to my phone.

No, I did not understand that a non-standard Tag was not the same as a custom event. Thank you for explaining that.

As a new FH user (this is my first plug in) I had the instructions when I down loaded it, and then couldnt find them again yesterday. I have now after some difficulty found the instructions again. I now know what BOM means.

However, one of the reasons I did not use FH as my regular software over the years is the difficulty of understanding complex instructions designed for experts in IT rather than genealogists. I dont know enough to understand or make the choices. There may well be a way of exporting to Gedstar Pro and I am consulting the author -

Once we all know what that standard might be it could indeed by added to the list of options, as you or Jane kindly suggested.

I personally think it important to have my data on my phone - because my phone is always with me. Programmes work with TMG or they work (or are planned to work) with GEDCOM. However, a non standard GEDCOM (after a brilliant direct import from TMG) leaves us stuck between two stools. The same problem arises for those of us TMG users who use Second Site by John Cardinal.

If the current import of TMG to FH is the final design, then hopefully app designers may set to work.

If nothing can be done, even with your plug in the only solution for me is to revert to the old way of entering censuses with a separate Event for each member of the household.

Evelyn

I was too optimistic.

I am now unsure whether I used the plug in for my export or not. I thought I did.

The fact is that today I cant find out how to run the plug in. If I go to Tools, plug ins it shows me it may be running but then freezes the screen and the FH programme - several times that has happened both yesterday and today.

I dont think I have ever seen a screen offering me all the options listed in the plug in guidance notes. So I can't make any choice about export of non standard events.

This has been the pattern of my relationship with FH for years - I buy it. I repeatedly buy it but it then defeats me. Everything is just too difficult and it is simpler to go on using TMG.

I deleted and re downloaded the plug in. But it doesnt open at all - Not familiar with plug ins but I am still getting the freezing.

Please persevere with FH, because TMG is unsupported, and sooner or later will not install on a future version of Windows.

Intercommunication between genealogy products has always been a challenge, because either they use a proprietary database, or they do not fully support the GEDCOM Standard. However, without GEDCOM the options would be severely limited.

Please post each difficulty you have with FH under a separate General Usage Forum topic. Many thoroughbred genealogists find the FH methodolgy extremely powerful, but just like any 'new' software package, it takes time to learn how to use its features.

Exporting to GEDSTAR Pro...

Does the TMG to GEDSTAR Pro transfer include Witness details?
An FH GEDCOM to GEDSTAR Pro transfer can include Witness details as associated Notes.

Maybe you've been using the File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File... command rather than a Plugin. This form of GEDCOM probably won't transfer Witness details to GEDSTAR Pro because Witness details use Non-standard Tags and that is because GEDCOM has no definition for Witnesses.

For background details about Plugins see plugins:index|> Family Historian Plugins > End User Guide.

Download the Export Gedcom File Plugin from the Plugin Store and add it to the Tools menu as explained in that Guide. The plugins:help:index|> Plugin Help and Advice also offers a preview of Plugin capabilities.

A possible explanation for a Plugin 'running/freezing' is a lack of Internet connection.

But nobody else has reported 'running/freezing' problems with Plugins. Is there possibly anything unusual about your PC configuration; where My Documents is located; where the Family Historian Projects folder is located, etc...? You are using a fully licenced FH V6 and not a 30-day trial?

Try a very simple Plugin such as Search All Possible Names to see if it runs OK.

When the Export Gedcom File Plugin runs, it has a Help & Advice button at the bottom that opens the same advice as via the [kb]|[/kb] link above, and is one reason why it needs an Internet connection. Follow the advice I gave earlier, and the exported Standard GECOM 5.5 in UTF-8 with BOM encoding should import to GEDSTAR Pro and include Witness details in local Notes.

You are very kind to explain.

I did try again and each time I downloaded and tried to run the add in, FH froze. I had to use alt control and delete.

I am now in even worse trouble as I decided to uninstall FH in case my installation had been corrupted. I uninstalled it and reinstalled version 6 but cannot open it and run it as the message says my validation key and name are not valid.

That is probably because I no longer have FH version 5 installed.

I sympathise with program writers who want to prevent people using their software for free. But the key for the new version 6 (once provided) should surely work.

Anyway I am now without a working copy of FH, so I am glad I did not make a wholesale transfer. I now need to ask the tech help people to help me get FH 6 running again.

To answer your question - I opened the various GEDCOM exports in Note pad and the witness roles in the 1871 census are there for the two principals. But when the file is converted by Gedstar Pro, I cant see anything there as a note.

I also now know there are unlikely to be further versions of Gedstar Pro. The choice for conversion will remain TMG, Legacy and GEDCOM

Check the advice in how_to:reinstall_family_historian|> Family Historian Installation Advice.

I guess you purchased a V5 to V6 Upgrade in which case FH V5 does NOT need to be installed, but you do need to enter both the V5 and V6 licence registration details.

Remember, you must install the original purchased download, NOT the latest free update, which is installed afterwards.
See the how_to:family_historian_installation_details|> Family Historian Installation Details.

Thank you Mike. I am now up and running again - was too tired last night and couldnt cope.

I feel this is now more than a TMG transfer problem. Several software packages now provide for witnesses and roles - and can therefore (in one way or another) accept TMG census entries using roles.

However, I have not yet found a way of getting these non-standard tags onto an app for Android phone. Either from FH or from another program.

I have been asked how the FH software handles the witnesses and roles in its file and in GEDCOMs. Is there anywhere on this site or on the FH site where one can get the technical details of how these are handled? Due to my installing and uninstalling I cant seem to locate and open a FH6 sample file which shows all these complications.

I opened one of my trial GEDCOMs in NotePad and have come up with something like this (I dont know enough to understand it!). But I would like to have the info about non-standard fields used please, as someone else has asked me for them.


1 EVEN
2 TYPE Census 1871
2 _SHAR @I47@
3 ROLE Son
2 _SHAR @I37@
3 ROLE Son
2 _SHAR @I43@
3 ROLE Son
2 DATE 2 APR 1871
2 PLAC 38 Canning Street, Liverpool, Lancashire
2 SOUR @S235@
2 NOTE They had seven children at home and three servants.
3 CONT Elizabeth Nicholls servant U 23 Nurse domestic servant born Cheshire Chester
3 CONT Emma Heatherington servant U 22 Housemaid domestic servant Born Cheshire Birkenhead
3 CONT Kate Cavanagh servant U 21 Cook domestic servant born Ireland.
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Census 1861
2 _SHAR @I47@
3 ROLE Son
2 DATE 1861
2 PLAC 38 Canning Street, Liverpool, Lancashire
2 SOUR @S120@
2 NOTE Bearman was listed as Warehouseman.
1 HUSB @I17@
1 WIFE @I18@
1 CHIL @I37@
1 CHIL @I43@
1 CHIL @I47@

You may find some of the advice in how_to:key_features_for_newcomers|> Key Features for Newcomers useful, where it explains how to create the Family Historian Sample Project that has several examples of Witnesses.

Having re-installed FH V6, are Plugins running any better?
Try a simple one such as Search All Possible Names first.
If OK then try Export Gedcom File which is your best option to get Witness details in Notes into an Android app using the settings explained earlier.

There is no recognised standard format for recording Witnesses, so finding two genealogy applications that understand each others format for Witnesses will be a very restricted.

The FH format Witness Roles: _SHAR, _SHAN is described in glossary:gedcom_extension_list|> GEDCOM Extension List along with all the other non-standard GEDCOM custom tags. The Export Gedcom File Plugin is designed to convert all those into standard GEDCOM or other tags more likely to be recognised by other applications.

Taking your sample GEDCOM I've added some explanatory annotation to the first Census Event.
1 EVEN ~ This tag introduces a Custom Event that is not one of the GEDCOM Standard Events
2 TYPE Census 1871 ~ This names the type of Custom Event e.g. TMG Census year
2 _SHAR @I47@ ~ This is a Witness tag that links to Individual with Record Id 47
3 ROLE Son ~ This defines the Role of that Witness
2 _SHAR @I37@ ~ This is a Witness tag that links to Individual with Record Id 37
3 ROLE Son ~ This defines the Role of that Witness
2 _SHAR @I43@ ~ This is a Witness tag that links to Individual with Record Id 43
3 ROLE Son ~ This defines the Role of that Witness
2 DATE 2 APR 1871 ~ This defines the DATE of the Event
2 PLAC 38 Canning Street, Liverpool, Lancashire ~ This defines the PLACe of the Event
2 SOUR @S235@ ~ This defines the Citation for Source with Record Id 235
2 NOTE They had seven children at home and three servants. ~ This defines the Event local NOTE that CONTinues on several lines
3 CONT Elizabeth Nicholls servant U 23 Nurse domestic servant born Cheshire Chester
3 CONT Emma Heatherington servant U 22 Housemaid domestic servant Born Cheshire Birkenhead
3 CONT Kate Cavanagh servant U 21 Cook domestic servant born Ireland.

It would be easy to convert your non-standard Custom Event Census 1871 to the GEDCOM standard CENSus Event using an existing Plugin.
I know it has been popularised in TMG, but most FH users would not use Witnesses in that way to define Census Household members.
They would create a CENSuse Event for each Individual and cite Source Record Id 235 against each one.
Making those two changes will make your database much more portable to other genealogy applications.

First, there is no need to use an FH plugin to convert Evelyn's ex-TMG census entries to the proper GEDCOM identity.
Go back to TMG and make sure all the TMG census tags have a GEDCOM ID of CENS. Having a GEDCOM ID of CEN1871 or somesuch is of little value, as (a) it's non-standard and (b) the year is irrelevant to the label as the tag date will supply the year. When FH imports from TMG, all CENS tags are correctly identified as Census entries, Witness entries are correctly handled (as of FH 6.0.4) and FH's GEDCOM database will then be correctly read by Gedstar Pro.

Second, I'm not sure how Gedstar handles witnesses (can't find enough detail on it), but both TMG and FH use the non-std GEDCOM tag of '_SHAR' for identifying witnesses. Given that Gedstar was developed with assistance from Wholly Genes, I would sort of expect it might abide by the same convention (of course, it might not, given that it reads the TMG database directly, so has no need of knowing how TMG identifies a witness in a GEDCOM export).

Don

Thank you very much, both of you, for the information. Just what I needed. I had hoped, yes that the GEDCOM import in Gedstar could be tweaked to accommodate the witness data previously imported direct from the TMG files. But you are right. It is not that simple.

A word of explanation about my custom census tags and use of witness roles.

I have not tidied up my numerous TMG Projects for transfer to any other programme. I simply imported a TMG file using the direct import offered in FH 6.0.4

The individual Census Tags (Events) dated with the year of the UK census are indeed Custom Tags, but not invented by me. They come as standard in the UK version of TMG which was introduced for the convenience of UK users some years ago. Since FH is a British programme likely to attract British users, it made sense to me to test the import using the UK version of TMG. It isnt a big problem to strip them out, nor for that matter to go on using them.

The debate about how to enter Censuses and how closely to adhere to strict GEDCOM and whether to use witnesses and roles at all, is not something to be gone into here. After a multitude of censuses went on line, it was certainly quicker to enter them once per household - and my switch was due to laziness.

My indecision at that point is still clear because on my main tree, some of those censuses have been entered twice over to ensure GEDCOM export to early FH!

What is clear however is that some people use genealogical software for more than simple ancestral research -and for those who do, the potential to use witnesses and roles is a great attraction. It can be used in recording wills and property transactions. I myself have a Project for a First World War Artillery Brigade. I also used genealogy software to trace family connections in forced emigration from Nazi Germany.

So it is a great boon and a blessing to have the authors of FH create a version of the software which can handle the grouping of unrelated people by attaching them to a singe event. This is not a complaint about FH which we all know is a GEDCOM based programme. Just me experimenting with what can and cant be done.

A postscript on the add in freezing problem.

I have not tried this again, with the Export GEDCOM or any other add in. It is possible that by downloading automatically through Windows 7 (which has a mind of its own about downloads I suspect) and then running the add in to install it, it found itself in a directory where it could not be located from within FH. The download and use of Add ins is something that I would sort out if I were doing all my work in FH. Best to keep things simple for now.

Don's advice about TMG UK Census tags is also given in how_to:import_from_tmg#correcting_problems|> Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG).

Many FH users run with Windows 7 (myself included), and have few problems downloading, installing, and running Plugins.
It is more likely your Internet browser &/or Anti-Virus products that are the causing the problem.
What do you use?

When you say "it found itself in a directory where it could not be located from within FH" do you mean it was NOT listed in the Tools > Plugins window?
For items such as Plugins, FH uses folders within C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian\...

I was not aware that TMG also uses _SHAR as the Witness Gedcom tag, and therefore Gedstar Pro might well recognise it in the FH exported Gedcom.

I dont have time just now to investigate - But please make no assumption about how or whether TMG exports witnesses in a Gedcom or not.

The last version of TMG offered some additional GEDCOM export choices but I didnt look into them. I simply opened my TMG file in FH - which is the recomended import.
The example extract I pasted in for purposes of this thread was exported from FH. This is a Forum dealing with FH.

The custom tags/events for UK censuses show up on my phone regardless of the method and app I have used. There is no problem with them.

Yes, the TMG UK Census Events will show up OK, because they are Standard Gedcom Custom Events.

But just because you can see them, does NOT mean the software recognises them as Standard Gedcom CENSus Events.

So in FH for example, if you use features such as Queries, Reports, Plugins, etc, predefined to process CENSus Events, those Custom UK Census Events will be excluded from the process.

I suspect in FH the Sentence at the bottom of any UK Census Events probably says:
He experienced Census 1871 on 2 Apr 1871.
Rather than the more sensible CENSus Sentence:
He appeared in the census on 2 Apr 1871.

Thanks Mike. I take note of that. And will remove them from my trees before any great and permanent transfer to FH.
Must also look at queries etc.

A further note for those advising newcomers to FH to abandon witness events.
It is pretty easy to rename and re classify Events / Tags. I will do it.
But removing witnesses is a far greater labour. I just ran a filter in TMG and found I have 485 instances in my main project. I myself am surprised as I had no idea I had used them so much. I have about a dozen projects in all and there is no way I could tackle that job.

Apart from being non-standard Gedcom affecting their portability, I have no problem with Witnesses where appropriate, because the alternatives usually involve non-standard Gedcom too.

So for recording Marriage Witness, Bridegroom, Brides-maid, Minister, Informant of Birth/Death, Mourner, and similar roles in an event (but usually not a relative), then Witnesses are better than Custom Events for recording those roles.

However, in my view, household members in a Census are all Primary Individuals in the Event, not a Primary Head of household with several Witnesses. So each member should have their own Census Event.

If needed by enough users, a Plugin could probbaly make short work of performaing that Census Witness to Census Event conversion.

I don't see any need to de-witness any events before (or after) transfer to FH - as of 6.0.4 FH does a reasonable job of transfer from TMG and now appears to be identifying and storing most witness info correctly.

I can't agree with Mike that everybody at a census is a Principal and shouldn't be classed as witnesses, but that's really a religious argument we shouldn't get into.

For my Head of Families people the default FH sentence says 'He (or she) appeared in the census on (date) at (place)' which is basic and boring, but OK, and witness entries appear like 'He was a son at Census of (person) on (date) etc etc' which is not quite good English, but easily correctable.

Don

My advice is not specifically to do with how FH itself handles Census & Witness items.

As I said earlier, it is advice about how existing Queries, Reports, Plugins, etc, process CENSus Events. These utilities are mostly written by FH users, and assume each person appearing in a Census Household has their own CENSus Event.

For example, the Lookup Missing Census Facts Plugin offers Ancestry and FindMyPast Internet searches for anyone without a CENSus Event for each Census year throughout their lifetime, for several nominated countries. If such Individuals are only recorded as Census Witnesses then they will be unnecessarily included in the searches.

Similary, there is the FH Publish > Miscellaneous Reports > Individual Census Report and many fhugdownloads:censusrecords|> Downloads and Links ~ Census Record utilities that will be inneffective unless every Individual has an appropriate CENSus Event.

I'm not making a 'religous' argument about the right or wrong way to do it, but advising you of the consequences of that decision regarding CENSus analysis tools, and maybe I didn't make that point clear enough.

There might also be an argument that the "Head" (Primary, Principal whatever) of the household identified in the census is not always the person of main interest in that census return. For example the person of main interest to you might be a visitor, lodger, servant or inmate, and others in the census return for that household might have no family connection at all with them.

For this type of return the image filename, the multimedia title and the source title (citation) contain the name of the person of interest, for example "Census 1901 - Frederick James Watts (b1863)". Also, I often do not enter (in the main part of AS) the details of all of the unrelated people, but only include them in Text field (which I usually just copy and paste from the transcription in Ancestry, plus any extra bits of information I might want to add from the image, eg the Head was a farmer of 10 acres, employing 6 people").

I appreciate all I have learned from this discussion - However back to my main reason for starting this thread.

Is there any way I can get my witness data from a FH tree onto my Android phone?

And, by the way, you should never under-estimate the chances of an elderly user getting into trouble once they attempt to change anything. including the UK census tags. I have been in big trouble. Every single census tab ended up dated 1841 - and as a byproduct of that error, I discovered that changing to the default GEDCOM census Tag which one has rarely used, deletes all those roles I so carefully entered into my UK census Events.
Luckily I had a back up - but I am back to using the UK version as it came out of the packet.

Yes, I agree the thread was going somewhat off piste.

At the risk of repeating myself, the answer to both your problems is a Plugin.

For exporting use the Export Gedcom File Plugin, and experiment with the Witness Role export options, which can be discussed further, assuming you can get Plugins running OK.

For changing Census tags use the Change Any Fact Tag Plugin, which I can guide you through, and guarantee it will not upset your Witness Roles.

If you are still having problems getting Plugins to download and run, then that needs to be resolved first, and there are some other FH installation techniques I can suggest that should fix any problems.

While I appreciate that plugins and post-processing the FH GEDCOM file can fix things, I'm always in favour of going back to the root info in TMG and fixing things there - that way you don't have to keep fixing the FH data if you do a re-import.
But this statement worries me -
"Every single census tab ended up dated 1841 - and as a byproduct of that error, I discovered that changing to the default GEDCOM census Tag which one has rarely used, deletes all those roles I so carefully entered into my UK census Events."

What I've suggested is going back to TMG and for each census tag in the Master Tag List, changing the 'GEDCOM export as' item to CENS, which it should be set to. This not going to affect ANYTHING else - it won't change any dates or affect any roles. TMG won't allow you to delete any roles that are in use. Or any tags that are in use. The only thing I can think that you've done is change the tag in use for a particular person to the default TMG CENSUS tag, which indeed has few roles associated with it. But I can't see why you would you do that, as you'd have to do it for many, many, people and there would be no point in doing so.