* Retaining TMG Source ID on Import

[jbtapscott]

I have tried importing my TMG Project into FH and have seen some good results, but is (was) there a way to force FH to use the same Source ID as I have on the sources in TMG?.

By way of explanation, I record the TMG Source ID on each piece of "source" paperwork in my filing system as well as also recording it within the name of copies of sources stored on my laptop (eg as "S0005 Smith, John - Birth record", so would not want to renumber everything. I should perhaps add that, whilst TMG has recorded sources sequentially, I have over time deleted Source references so the record set numbering within TMG is not sequential now (viz there are gaps in the numbers).

[tatewise]

Usually, when importing GEDCOM files, FH does retain the Record Id of all record types where possible. (Sometimes they are too large or non-numeric.)

Presumably, you are using the recommended direct import method. I am not aware of an option to retain Record Id and a little surprised FH does not do it.

Perhaps it should be reported to Calico Pie.

[LornaCraig]

(Sometimes they are too large or non-numeric.).

That's probably the answer. The example given contains S0005, so I imagine the TMG source IDs are non-numeric. Assuming all the source IDs start with 'S', what is needed is some way of removing the S from them all in TMG before exporting. Even so, I don't know whether FH would retain leading zeros in the numbers.

[mjashby]

Not sure about this. FH Source Record ID's are also preceded by an 'S' marker (in the Gedcom File), they just don't display on screen. So, if the direct import from TMG is working correctly it should, presumably, be importing these ID's properly but 'failing' to display the 'S' on screen.

Is it possible that the lack of a visible 'S' in Family Historian is the 'problem', or are the numeric elements of ID's also being changed on import because it is seeing the TMG ID's as text?

Mervyn

[tatewise]

Those explanations only really hold water for GEDCOM import.

For direct TMG database import, FH knows the database structure. So should know every Source record id starts with 'S', and that every other record type id also starts with a known letter. Thus those initial letters should be removed to form the numerical Rec Id.

The user cannot remove the letters, because they are automatically assigned by TMG in its database, in the same way similar initial letters are automatically added to Rec Id in GEDCOM files, and automatically removed when FH imports/opens GEDCOM files.

[NickWalker]

Presumably FH ought to at least offer to retain the original IDs as custom IDs? Personally I think the IDs in a GEDCOM file are really there largely for technical reasons to link data together and should therefore be considered changeable whereas the custom IDs are there if you want to rely on them always staying the same.

The custom ID is referred to as a 'user reference number' in the GEDCOM standard and the description of this field matches what I thought:

A user-defined number or text that the submitter uses to identify this record. For instance, it may be a record number within the submitter's automated or manual system, or it may be a page and position number on a pedigree chart.

[jbtapscott]

Sorry, should have said - the "S" in my file name was just my indicator to show it was a source record file. My TMG just uses the "standard" record identifier which is, on the face of it, numeric. My import was done using the recommended direct import method - I'm not a great fan of the Gedcom approach as, even with (in my opinion) my relatively basic use of TMG, I have found in the past that quite a bit of my data did not get exported when I have created Gedcom file from my project.

I think I'll drop Calicoe Pie a line to get their view on this. Many thanks though for responses to date.

[tatewise]

I guess I should have asked originally, and maybe you have checked, but I presume you are saying that FH definitely does NOT use the same Rec Id as TNG, and renumbers the Source Records is some arbitrary way?

[jbtapscott]

Looking at the Sources Record List on FH, the "Record ID" field starts at 1 and runs on sequentially from there, whereas within TMG, the "Source #" (on my data) runs 1,2,3,4,7,8........ (the missing 5 and 6 representing Sources that I subsequently removed from TMG some years ago). I am assuming "Record ID" and "Source #" represent the same thing - viz. the record identifier for a given source record.

[tatewise]

Yes, you obviously had checked, and I am sorry to have doubted you.

[jbtapscott]

I have now gone a step further and tried a Gedcom import from the same TMG project. This resulted in FH recording the same Source ID as the TMG records, and also the same Repository ID as the TMG records (the original direct import renumbered Repository but as I don't have many I was not too worried about that!). So it looks as if my problem was with the direct import process.

As a side issue, I also found that the Gedcom import also brought in to FH more of the information stored on the TMG Source record (by way of explanation - my source record also had things like, for a Census record, the PRO Ref, the Registered Address, Date I found the data, etc).

I'll now start having another look at FH (Gedcom Import) and see what my other data looks like!

[tatewise]

I know it is not ideal, but if you use both import modes, you could then merge the two Projects and pick the best parts from each.

[jbtapscott]

Thanks for the feedback / suggestions Mike - I'll carry on looking at different options / formats within FH (so far, I am generally liking what I see!), and will then try a project merge.

[JohnLiddle]

I think that FH should really be configured to honour what it finds in a TMG file when it does a direct import. This is something Calico Pie need to address.

However, in the absence of rapid progress on that front, it should be eminently possible to fill the gaps in source numbering in TMG.

Go to Master Source List, select any source, copy it and then amend its title to "Blank Source" or something similar. The source does not need to have any information in it.

Select (highlight) the source in the master source list.

Select "Renumber" from the buttons on the RHS of the Source list window.

A dialogue pops up allowing you to renumber the source - using the "Renumber one source" option, position the cursor in the "To" box. Press F2 to bring up a list of unused source numbers - your gaps will show here. Select one of the gap numbers. Select OK and you have filled one gap.

Repeat copying and renumbering this blank source until your gaps are filled.

Then when you import the project, you can just select and delete the blank sources, thus retaining your numbering.

Hope this helps,

[jbtapscott]

Thanks for that John - I was thinking about something similar myself, but then when I started looking further I found that, after a direct import, and although I thought FH had numbered the sources sequentially, I subsequently found a number of gaps in the numbering (eg a jump from Source ID 361 to 375 within FH). Within TMG, the two sources had sequential numbers so I don't really know what is going on.

That said, I am leaning towards stepping back even further and removing the Source ID element within the names of my file copies so I don't have to worry about renumbering. I can use the Attach Multimedia options to then incorporate the files (as links) to Sources and let FH rename the files to match the Source Title within FH. I am also considering re-entering some source data using Ancestral Sources, particularly some of the "bigger" census pieces, and let AS / FH overwrite the data imported from TMG. That way, the layout (in terms of what data is in what field within FH) would be consistent and I think the amount of manual cut & paste would be reduced.

A by-product of this approach is that, while very time consuming, it will force me to review something approaching fifteen years worth of collected source data as I go along.

[JohnLiddle]

"I subsequently found a number of gaps in the numbering (eg a jump from Source ID 361 to 375 within FH). Within TMG, the two sources had sequential numbers so I don't really know what is going on"

That is weird - presumably you had run the Optimise - VFI - Optimise routine in TMG before attempting the direct import?

[jbtapscott]

Yes, I ran all the maintenance options within TMG (although I know some duplicate the work done by others!). I'll wait for V6 before really starting in earnest, but at the moment the Gedcom option seems to carry more of my TMG data over to FH than the direct import approach.

[rjbawden]

Just to note I have the same problem with my direct import (Santa didn't bring me a version of FH so I downloaded the trial version the other day and have only just started playing). I have emailed a description to FH Support so they know that there's at least one more TMG user looking for an answer!