* V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Importing from or exporting to another genealogy program. This is the place to ask.
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awag
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V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 18 Apr 2021 11:55

Hi I am new to Family Historian and have imported from my TMG program to FH7 and everything looks good except...the Birth Fact Sentence.
It automatically gives a sentence of:
{individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}
instead of the following that new people have
{individual} was born {date} {place} <({age})>. <The informant on the birth certificate was {role=informant}.>

Is it possible to put all the Birth Sentences back to default and overwrite all people in the project.
I have searched through the forum and information but can only find how to change individual sentences.

I also noticed the Marriage sentence isn't ideal although I'd leave for now:
{individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}

I hope someone can help. Thank you.
Ang

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 18 Apr 2021 13:10

Welcome to the FHUG.

Yes, the solution to your question requires a custom Query to be written to list those Sentence templates and delete them.

So click the Query window icon in the toolbar and select New Custom Query...
Enter a Query name such as Sentences and set the Query Type to Fact (event or attribute) then click Create button.

The resultant Query Window has several tabs General, Columns, Rows, and Result Set.
See the FHUG Knowledge Base An Overview of Queries for details.

On the Columns tab, some have already been defined.
In the Fields pane on the left select Sentence near the bottom and click > to add it as a column.

Now click the blue circle with a white triangle Run Query icon in the Query toolbar just above the Columns.
That will produce the Result Set that lists all Facts with the Sentence templates in the rightmost column.
Hold down the Alt key while you click the Sentence column header to sort them to the top.

Now you can drag the cursor over all those Sentence template cells so they are selected.
Then click the Delete key on your keyboard, check the warning and click OK if you are happy to delete all.
If you only want to delete Birth event Sentence templates then we need to add a Rows tab filter.
Come back and ask how to do that if necesary.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 18 Apr 2021 13:15

Brilliant, Thanks Mike. I'll work through that tomorrow and see what happens when I get to Rows.
Thanks again.
Ang

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 19 Apr 2021 00:30

HI Mike
I worked through the query and it brought up results with Birth, Death and Marriages but the Sentence column was empty.
I did sort the Fact column by Birth, then deleted the 'empty' Sentence column contents anyway (only for Birth), but it gave an error of:

No Data Items found in the selected cells. Nothing to delete.

Checking the Fact Sentences they still appear with the incorrect information. I have attached a screenshot of the 'Columns' tab and the error message.

Thank you.
Angela
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Sentence Query.JPG
Sentence query Columns tab and error
Sentence Query.JPG (32.64 KiB) Viewed 961 times

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 19 Apr 2021 09:45

You need to sort the Result Set by the Sentence column otherwise the templates may be way down the list.
Hold down the Alt key while you click the Sentence column header to sort the templates to the top.

If there are no Fact specific Sentence Templates then the problem must be elsewhere.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 19 Apr 2021 12:26

Thanks Mike, I had held the Alt Key and also scrolled right through but there is nothing showing in that column.
But when I check the Properties window of individuals the sentence information appears, (with the error for the people from TMG but with a correct sentence for new people added after the import)

I noticed those few added after the import dont have anything showing in the sentence column neither. Does something appear to be incorrect in the Columns criteria (I've attached a clearer screenshot)

Thanks again
Ang
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Fact Query - Columns criteria.JPG
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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 19 Apr 2021 13:30

The important point to understand is that Sentence Templates are derived in two ways.

Usually, the default Sentence Template is used as defined by the Tools > Fact Types... command.
In that dialogue, select the Fact of interest (say Birth) and click Edit... to see the global default Sentence Template.

That can be overridden by a specific Sentence Template local to each Fact, and that is what the Query is listing.
There are none listed, so your rogue sentence must a global definition.

On the Facts tab, when you select a Fact, the background colour of the Sentence box identifies which of the two alternatives are in use. A beige background means the global default. A white background means a specific local template. Please confirm which colour applies to your rogue Birth fact sentences.

Beige implies the Birth facts with the rogue template are NOT standard Birth events but custom facts imported from TMG.
So in Tools > Fact Types... there should be another fact named Birth that is NOT listed as Birth Event Standard.
If you can confirm that then we can convert those rogue custom Birth facts to be standard Birth events.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 20 Apr 2021 00:11

Hi Mike, thanks for your patience.
I have attached screenshots of my current project Fact Types, and the Sample Project Fact Types.
In my TMG project they are all the beige, both the new people and imported.
They are also all beige in the Sample project.

In my Project : Tools / Fact Types / Edit - here the Birth sentence reads correctly
I hope that helps.
Thank you
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Fact Types my TMG project.JPG
Fact Types my TMG project.JPG (75.23 KiB) Viewed 839 times
Fact Types Sample project.JPG
Fact Types Sample project.JPG (88.37 KiB) Viewed 839 times

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 20 Apr 2021 10:25

FYI: There is no need to post Tools > Fact Types for different Projects, because they are the same for all Projects, apart from the new Project-specific Fact Types that I doubt you have used.

Notice that most of the Fact Types are in the TMG Fact Set that has eclipsed the Standard Fact Set.
That is a side-effect of importing the TMG Master Tag Type details such as Sentence Templates.
To see the full effect tick the Show Hidden option that reveals <eclipsed> Fact Types.

On reviewing your problem Birth fact sentences, I wonder if they have a blue arrow in the margin of the Facts tab.
See your Facts tab screenshot of the 1957-1965 Residence fact together with the other coloured bullet facts.
Individual principal facts have a blue bullet, Family couple facts have a red bullet, Timeline Facts have a grey bullet.

The blue arrow indicates a Shared Fact Witness, so rather than a Birth event, it is a witness to the birth event.
Double-click that fact and each Witness and their Role is listed.
The Sentence Template {individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place} should be saying this Witness person was performing their Role at the Birth of the Principal person on Date in Place.
Does that explain what you are seeing? I'm sorry we went of a wild goose chase to get here.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 20 Apr 2021 11:44

Thanks Mike. I ticked the ‘Show Hidden’ option and that showed them all …. not good.
On looking at the Properties panel / Facts Tab:
• to the left of the date of the Birth there is a blue dot for all
• the ones that show incorrectly have the blue witness ‘link’ to the right of the ‘Birth/Born’ fact at the top of the panel.

I hadn't noticed that some had the witness link and others not as I hadn't used witnesses in TMG
It looks to me like all of my imported facts have come in with the witness link but I had been focusing on the Birth Sentence.
Is this something that is repairable or am I better off starting again (prefer to avoid this if possible).

No apology needed, I’ve learnt more about the Facts, thank you.

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 20 Apr 2021 12:37

After ticking Show Hidden you can use the Fact Set: and Filter: options at the top to refine the list.

As a general rule, when FH imports from other products such as TMG, it does not 'invent' new data structures.
See the FHUG Knowledge Base Importing to Family Historian for Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG) under Import Guide where it says for imported facts:
  • Every Tag with 1 Principal Person becomes an Individual Fact (Event/Attribute) e.g. Birth & Death
  • Every Tag with 2 Principal Persons as spouses/partners becomes a Family Fact (Event/Attribute)
  • Every Tag with 2 Principal Persons not spouses/partners becomes an Individual Fact of 1st with 2nd as Witness
It is only that last bullet case that creates shared Fact Witnesses in the Project.
So I suggest that those facts with the blue arrows were shared facts with two unmarried Principals in TMG.
( Can you go and check in your TMG Project to see if that is the case, especially for the Birth fact being discussed? )
I would be amazed if all of your imported facts have come into FH with a witness link.

Considering the witnessed Birth that we have been discussing:
  • What Witness Role is listed when you double-click on that Birth shared witness fact?
  • What is the relationship between the Witness person and the person being born?
  • What does the Sentence say for this Witness person went the Birth is selected?
If you really need to delete all those shared Fact Witnesses the that can be done, but are you sure?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 21 Apr 2021 11:43

Unfortunately I hadn’t ever looked at the tag sentences in TMG, was only using it to build a basic tree and using limited features.
I found the TMG tag sentence detail and can see they have a sentence plus a witness sentence, which is the one appearing in FH.

In FH it looks like all of the Roles for Births/Born are ‘Principal 2’. EG:
• With Focus person Sidney Schmidt, and select his Birth fact, witness blue arrow/link on the right, it shows only him in the Witness window with role of Principal 2
(Witness Sentence says: He was a Principal 2 at Birth of Sidney Schmidt on….. - and this is what appears in the Facts tab Sentence area)
• With Focus Sidney Schmidt, and select his daughter Greta’s birth, witness blue arrow/link on the right, only shows Greta in the Witness window with Role of Principal 2
(Witness Sentence says: She was a Principal 2 at Birth of Greta Schmidt Born …….. - BUT in the Fact Sentence it says Greta Schmidt was Born ….)
• With Focus Sidney, and select his marriage to Jean the blue/arrow link, it has them BOTH in the Witness window as spouses.
(Witness Sentence says: He was a Spouse at Marriage of Sidney Schmidt and Jean…. - and this is what appears in the Facts tab Sentence area)

This is the same scenario for all of the old individuals I checked.

I also made another new import project from my old TMG project and I specifically didn’t import the Event/Witness sentences but in the new project the Witness sentence still appears in the Facts tab Birth Sentence window.

I hope that makes sense.
Thank you

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 21 Apr 2021 12:35

Wow! That is most unusual.
I am no TMG expert, but it seems that somehow you have changed its settings such that for every Fact Tag Type the Principal 1 person also has the shared Witness Role of Principal 2, which is very strange.

If you open TMG and use the Tools > Master Event List and Tools > Master Tag Type List is there any indication of that unusual set up with the same person being both Principal 1 and Principal 2 for every fact type?

Are there any expert TMG users reading this who might throw any light on this topic?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by Calline » 21 Apr 2021 14:13

I had that problem with the sentence structure when I originally tried importing to FH7 from my old TMG7 project; no issues when I had updated it to TMG9 prior to the import.

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 21 Apr 2021 14:42

Thank you Calline. Angela is that your situation? Are you running TMG V7?

If so, then see the FHUG Knowledge Base Importing to Family Historian under the Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG) section that says TMG V7 or earlier is not supported and provides TMG V9 installation files to upgrade your PC.
Then the import should work correctly.
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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 22 Apr 2021 11:36

Oh wow. I had read that prior to doing the import from TMG and only having V7 had been working with importing Gedcoms. When those hadnt been working I had stumbled upon the import 'from other program option', forgetting the TMG7 issue.
I have downloaded the TMG9 files and have managed to open a read only version which I have successfully loaded into a FH project. Things look much better now and looks much better to work with.
Thank you Calline for adding to the post, and Mike, I am so sorry to have wasted your time by not going through the import instructions thoroughly.
Thank you both.
Ang

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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by tatewise » 22 Apr 2021 12:04

Phew! I'm glad that has been resolved.
I wonder if those symptoms of importing from TMG7 were added to the import guide that would avoid other users having the same bad experience.
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Re: V7 Import from TMG has error in Birth Fact sentence

Post by awag » 22 Apr 2021 12:53

Possibly, I had skipped the import direct from TMG because my V7 and original V9 programs weren't working properly and as I had Gedcoms it seemed simpler. I reinstalled the V9 from the link you recommended and it worked well enough from there.
Again, thank you for your time.

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